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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Maybe. I would argue that the vast majority of people who do proper research into Islam with a truly open mind will find themselves converting.
    I did the research with an open mind. But sorry to disappoint you, I still retain the views I had initially.

    There is still some issue with trying to force a religious transmigration onto a country which gives you the right to practice your religion along side others.
    Its not like France where you will be fined for wearing your religious garments, so its not a nice way to replay Britain by trying to force a religion down its throat.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    I did the research with an open mind. But sorry to disappoint you, I still retain the views I had initially.

    There is still some issue with trying to force a religious transmigration onto a country which gives you the right to practice your religion along side others.
    Its not like France where you will be fined for wearing your religious garments, so its not a nice way to replay Britain by trying to force a religion down its throat.
    Somehow I doubt that...
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    Not really though, Islam is evil
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Somehow I doubt that...
    It is naive - if not then utterly ludicrous - to believe that anyone researching with an open mind will come to the same conclusions you did.

    You probably saw a problem with Western culture prior your research hence you latched yourself onto the Islam boat; I hardly see the issue with said culture.
    So forgive me if I don't think there's a problem which can only be rectified by Islamification.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I'm White, and not someone you'd expect to be Muslim. However, I have a rising interest in Islam, and so too do many other White people in this country and other Western nations. There is growing dissatisfaction with the "typical" Western lifestyle. This is a huge generalisation, but I believe that the White lifestyle/culture in this country is, to put it bluntly, highly degenerate, being orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight. I believe Islam could provide the solution to these, and I may very well soon be one of the many tens, if not hundreds of thousands of White people to formally embrace Islam.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lim-faith.html
    You know what?

    I can't stop morons being morons no more than I can stop the sun from setting.

    But please do some actual research into what Islam is before you sign on the dotted line, I don't mean going down to the Mosque and having a chat, read some of the Qu'ran for yourself, read about the history of the Islamic people and come back and tell me that it's worth it. It isn't.

    What is, "religious insight"?
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    (Original post by imperial maniac)
    You know what?

    I can't stop morons being morons no more than I can stop the sun from setting.

    But please do some actual research into what Islam is before you sign on the dotted line, I don't mean going down to the Mosque and having a chat, read some of the Qu'ran for yourself, read about the history of the Islamic people and come back and tell me that it's worth it. It isn't.

    What is, "religious insight"?
    I have done all of these things.

    Religious insight is knowledge about religion. If a kid is never taught maths then he has no mathematical insight, the same goes for religion. It's not so much that people are raised un-religious, their parents are just apathetic to religion.
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    This country will never get used to the "rise of Islam".

    It's going to happen. Likely not to be in my lifetime, but it will.

    You have groups now like the EDL who don't know anything about Islam and talk absolute crap at their demos. You can find tons of proof on youtube, I actually find it funny.

    It's got nothing to do with religion, it's all to do with race, they're terrified of it.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Religious insight is knowledge about religion. If a kid is never taught maths then he has no mathematical insight, the same goes for religion. It's not so much that people are raised un-religious, their parents are just apathetic to religion.
    That still doesn't justify Islamification.
    You would be wrong if you tried to suggest that people who are against Islamification are people who don't know about Islam.
    Muslims against total Islamification are dubbed as kuff?r.

    You seem to fit the Social Identity Theory in the way you try to demean your opposition (out-group) in favour of your side's -- your in-group -- belief when you try to suggest that no-one has done their research correctly (when they so happen to draw different conclusions from yourself).

    (Original post by x-friends)
    This country will never get used to the "rise of Islam".

    It's going to happen. Likely not to be in my lifetime, but it will.

    You have groups now like the EDL who don't know anything about Islam and talk absolute crap at their demos. You can find tons of proof on youtube, I actually find it funny.

    It's got nothing to do with religion, it's all to do with race, they're terrified of it.
    Why should it?

    I doubt it'll happen with this country being more secular and Islam getting bad media by extremists.
    Well it happened in France didn't it.

    What about other people who speak against it that aren't part of the EDL?

    Or they don't want a value system based on religion which doesn't have strong foundations to be enforced as law.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    That still doesn't justify Islamification.
    You would be wrong if you tried to suggest that people who are against Islamification are people who don't know about Islam.
    Muslims against total Islamification are dubbed as kuff?r.

    You seem to fit the Social Identity Theory in the way you try to demean your opposition (out-group) in favour of your side's -- your in-group -- belief when you try to suggest that no-one has done their research correctly (when they so happen to draw different conclusions from yourself).
    All I am saying is that there have certainly been many cases where high-profile anti-Islam preachers have done a lot of research into Islam and found themselves converted by it.

    And - without trying to offend any Muslims out there of different races than I - I believe this thread may be slightly more justified in that, as a White man with 100% Western European ancestry as far back as I can trace, and therefore a typical indigenous resident of this country - have been highly swayed by Islam, and therefore can represent the ever growing numbers of White, indigenous people flocking to Islam.

    All I can say is that, whilst I respect the opinions of others, it is my belief and my opinion that we have an extremely decadent culture in the UK and indeed, other countries with similar cultures to ours, and in my view, Islamification would be a good thing. Yes, I am not loyal to my culture. Yes, I am not loyal to the religious beliefs of my family (not like any of them are religious anyway, my family is a mix between slightly militant atheism and extremely passive Christian). Yes, I am not loyal to the traditional values of the UK. One thing I am loyal to, is my race (as you can see from my profile it is an issue I feel strongly about) because, Muslim or not, I'll always be White.
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    Islamification sounds fantastic.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    All I am saying is that there have certainly been many cases where high-profile anti-Islam preachers have done a lot of research into Islam and found themselves converted by it.

    And - without trying to offend any Muslims out there of different races than I - I believe this thread may be slightly more justified in that, as a White man with 100% Western European ancestry as far back as I can trace, and therefore a typical indigenous resident of this country - have been highly swayed by Islam, and therefore can represent the ever growing numbers of White, indigenous people flocking to Islam.

    All I can say is that, whilst I respect the opinions of others, it is my belief and my opinion that we have an extremely decadent culture in the UK and indeed, other countries with similar cultures to ours, and in my view, Islamification would be a good thing. Yes, I am not loyal to my culture. Yes, I am not loyal to the religious beliefs of my family (not like any of them are religious anyway, my family is a mix between slightly militant atheism and extremely passive Christian). Yes, I am not loyal to the traditional values of the UK. One thing I am loyal to, is my race (as you can see from my profile it is an issue I feel strongly about) because, Muslim or not, I'll always be White.
    Name a few.

    You are not representative of a growing number because you are one person and nothing more.

    If it is just your opinion and belief which you believe are entirely personal, then you would not feel compelled to make threads on these things.
    But you're quite loyal to Islam, seemingly more so than being white going by your threads.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    Name a few.
    I never pretended to be an expert, but a quick google search found me..

    http://masudblog.com/?p=1062


    Daniel Streich once a devout Christian and who was a member of the The Swiss People’s Party, noted for their anti-Islam and anti-Minaret stance, converted to Islam over two years ago but kept his conversion secret.
    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    You are not representative of a growing number because you are one person and nothing more.
    I am one person who is part of a growing movement, that is, White Westerners flocking to Islam. I did not mean that I can represent everyone, simply that I am an example of such an occurrence.

    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    If it is just your opinion and belief which you believe are entirely personal, then you would not feel compelled to make threads on these things.
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an opinion and sharing it. Hell, that's virtually the whole point of internet forum.

    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    But you're quite loyal to Islam, seemingly more so than being white going by your threads.
    Why do you say that? Just because I abandoned "typically White English culture" doesn't mean my race has changed.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I never pretended to be an expert, but a quick google search found me..

    I ask to name a few and you give me one. =/


    I am one person who is part of a growing movement, that is, White Westerners flocking to Islam. I did not mean that I can represent everyone, simply that I am an example of such an occurrence.
    One example, not enough to illustrate a huge change in society.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an opinion and sharing it. Hell, that's virtually the whole point of internet forum.
    Sharing it is fine. Though its questionable when you assume that those whom don't agree with said opinion either aren't doing research with an open mind or are just anti-Islamists.

    Why do you say that? Just because I abandoned "typically White English culture" doesn't mean my race has changed.
    Your race hasn't changed, but your 'allegiance' has, one can argue.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    I ask to name a few and you give me one. =/
    Ugh. Use google, use anything, in my experience there have been many cases of the most anti-Islamic people converting.

    Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY
    and all the related links. You can bet that Christian ministers are quite anti-Islamic..


    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    One example, not enough to illustrate a huge change in society.
    If I remember correctly, the normal figure is given at about 10,000 new White converts every year? I know it's not groundbreaking but I think that will gain momentum, as obviously if 1 White person converts then that may cause an interest in all of their family/friends.

    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    Sharing it is fine. Though its questionable when you assume that those whom don't agree with said opinion either aren't doing research with an open mind or are just anti-Islamists.
    I guess that I shouldn't have said it.

    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    Your race hasn't changed, but your 'allegiance' has, one can argue.
    That's ridiculous and would be offensive if I actually let it get to me. Sure, the majority of White people aren't Muslim but that doesn't mean you can say that White "allegiance" is therefore non-Muslim. Are all the White Muslims in Bosnia/Cechnya etc anti-White? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Ugh. Use google, use anything, in my experience there have been many cases of the most anti-Islamic people converting.

    Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY
    and all the related links. You can bet that Christian ministers are quite anti-Islamic..
    I've done the research already, as I told you before, and retain the same stance. So I really don't think showing me anymore stories will suddenly cause me to have a complete change of heart here.
    Unlike these converters I have no need for ontological security. Which is possibly why I remain unswayed.

    In a similar vein I'm willing to say a lot of Islamists are anti-Christian too. Living in an Arab country for a good deal of my life, I did notice that there was an unreasonable Christian hate if you want to talk about personal experience.

    If I remember correctly, the normal figure is given at about 10,000 new White converts every year? I know it's not groundbreaking but I think that will gain momentum, as obviously if 1 White person converts then that may cause an interest in all of their family/friends.
    You're right, its not ground breaking. And I can say that it won't gain momentum and reference people blowing things up and trying to force religion on a country where they are given freedom to practice their belief... you know in contrast to Islamic countries where non-Muslims are treated like scum.
    I can say that that double standards will keep the number of white converters onto a low.
    And in most cases people's family or friends usually will be sceptical if the person in question converts to Islam, especially with how it is portrayed in the media; you're right an interest may spark with their family in friends, but not what you think.


    That's ridiculous and would be offensive if I actually let it get to me. Sure, the majority of White people aren't Muslim but that doesn't mean you can say that White "allegiance" is therefore non-Muslim. Are all the White Muslims in Bosnia/Cechnya etc anti-White? :rolleyes:
    Some Muslims (the ones that don't try to 'force' or preach an Islamification process) of all races aren't anti-white, just anti-West (associated with being white, though)- I recall one of the poppy burners being against democracy and freedom of choice- kind of bad connotations about the cause if you want to strip freedom from society.

    P.S. I said "one can argue", I never gave my opinion. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    Unlike these converters I have no need for ontological security. Which is possibly why I remain unswayed.
    Indeed. I personally believe that the White conversion to Islam will gain momentum, and nothing you said really debunked that. I hope that one day White people in Europe can be like Indonesians, Pakistanis, Somalians, Bosnians, Chinese Muslims - not "traditionally" what you might expect a Muslim to look like but nonetheless, Islam has no boundaries when it comes to race
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Indeed. I personally believe that the White conversion to Islam will gain momentum, and nothing you said really debunked that. I hope that one day White people in Europe can be like Indonesians, Pakistanis, Somalians, Bosnians, Chinese Muslims - not "traditionally" what you might expect a Muslim to look like but nonetheless, Islam has no boundaries when it comes to race
    Well I didn't need to debunk it as you gave me an opinion, so I gave you another spin on how that figure could be interpreted.

    I never said Islam has boundaries when it comes to race. I implied it does have boundaries with other beliefs.

    Which reminds me, you accused me of not debunking a point of yours, yet you've not actually debunked the following points:
    • Islamists, ones who strictly adhere to to the religion, being anti-Christian [lets add anti Hinduism/Sikhism and so forth] too.
    • The poppy burners (one calling himself a proper Muslim) being against democracy and free will; being anti-West.
    • Treated non-Muslims like scum


    These are only some points which make people think and argue against Islamification and this also leads people to demonise it too.
    You haven't touch on any of them, so how do you expect to persuade people that Islamification is a good thing when you've not touched on some of the things which make people think otherwise?

    EDIT

    Indonesians, Pakistanis, Somalians, Bosnians... their respective countries are riddled with civil war, terrorism, poverty and have the worst history globally for human rights. And they happen to be under Islamic law... you're not making the Islamification process appealing.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    Well I didn't need to debunk it as you gave me an opinion, so I gave you another spin on how that figure could be interpreted.

    I never said Islam has boundaries when it comes to race. I implied it does have boundaries with other beliefs.

    Which reminds me, you accused me of not debunking a point of yours, yet you've not actually debunked the following points:
    • Islamists, ones who strictly adhere to to the religion, being anti-Christian [lets add anti Hinduism/Sikhism and so forth] too.
    • The poppy burners (one calling himself a proper Muslim) being against democracy and free will; being anti-West.
    • Treated non-Muslims like scum


    These are only some points which make people think and argue against Islamification and this also leads people to demonise it too.
    You haven't touch on any of them, so how do you expect to persuade people that Islamification is a good thing when you've not touched on some of the things which make people think otherwise?
    Selkarn does not attempt to debunk or disprove anyone's arguments or beliefs. His defence is instead to call you stupid, bigoted, or authoritarian. Anyone who persistently disagrees with his bull**** is accused of trolling and ignored. Discussion with him is pointless and I advise you to stop now. You're just wasting your time.
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    (Original post by Knowledgemofo)
    That still doesn't justify Islamification.
    You would be wrong if you tried to suggest that people who are against Islamification are people who don't know about Islam.
    Muslims against total Islamification are dubbed as kuff?r.

    You seem to fit the Social Identity Theory in the way you try to demean your opposition (out-group) in favour of your side's -- your in-group -- belief when you try to suggest that no-one has done their research correctly (when they so happen to draw different conclusions from yourself).



    Why should it?

    I doubt it'll happen with this country being more secular and Islam getting bad media by extremists.
    Well it happened in France didn't it.

    What about other people who speak against it that aren't part of the EDL?

    Or they don't want a value system based on religion which doesn't have strong foundations to be enforced as law.
    This is two different things here. Ones the religion, the others an extreme version of it followed by some idiots.

    And people are getting confused with it thinking they are the same thing.

    You're either afraid of religion itself, or extremism.

    And I'm telling you it's going to happen, but not for a while.
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    (Original post by siwelmail)
    Whenever I hear Islam I hear terrorism in my head echoing, that's not being racist, that's just looking at a trend

    Edit: Neg rep is fun!
    Whenever i hear the words "white christian" i think of fighter jets, cruise missiles, illegal coup d'etat, world wars, torture, armament distributing etc.

    Thats not being racist, thats just observing a trend....

    Islam isn't a race anyways.
 
 
 
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