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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...ld-469452.html

    Religion and science, in my opinion, do not collide.
    How foolish, Islam didn't invent those things - intelligent men did who just happened to be Muslims. It's like saying that Christianity invented the three laws of motion.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I don't think so.. do you have any proof to back this up?

    Shut up with your bleating about the "Daily Mail sux, hurr durr", it's just getting boring - it's a story about how a woman converted to Islam, it's not like they are going to simply lie.
    Wow, got out on the wrong side this morning?

    Look at the first photo in your link. Then the second. That's how far it's moved for a generation for the most part. Then you get where it's still moving
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rima_Fakih
    That's Miss USA 2010. It kicked up a lot of controversy in more traditionally Muslim countries, though less so in Western ones, but it was always going to happen. As I said, it's becoming Westernised, not the other way round.

    Also, no they won't lie. They will twist the story though. They couldn't even do it without bringing terrorists into it.
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    (Original post by Liquidus Zeromus)
    All cultures evolve over time, adopt new values, and so on. From a mixture of cultural exchanges with other countries, and change from within. British culture in 1800 is not the same as British culture in 1900. But Islam is too different and too incompatible to be adopted without betraying your British cultural heritage. If someone wants to go to another country and become completely assimiliated into that culture, fine - they can abandon their culture and adopt another. But when a British person adopts Islam, they usually change their name to an Islamic one, follow Sharia law, make massive changes to their lifestyle, and they're totally out of place. There is no way you can become a White British Muslim without turning your back on Britain - and possibly your family, too.
    British culture, by itself, means nothing to me, I have never followed it and never will. I don't have a loyalty to "Britain".. things I do have a loyalty are e.g. my beliefs, my race, my family (who, btw, are so liberal that they would not care in the slightest about any of my religious beliefs), and Islam does not conflict with any of these.
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    (Original post by storna)
    It's not so simplistic that if the majority vote in Sharia it will be enforced. There are a lot of cases where human rights trump the tyranny of the majority.
    Obviously. A Sharia Law political "party", so to speak, wouldn't even get in the running in Europe during an election due to EU/ UN rules. My explanation was just to demonstrate that it is not a necessity, but a choice (albeit one that cannot be made in the West which= good thing)
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    British culture, by itself, means nothing to me, I have never followed it and never will. I don't have a loyalty to "Britain".. things I do have a loyalty are e.g. my beliefs, my race, my family (who, btw, are so liberal that they would not care in the slightest about any of my religious beliefs), and Islam does not conflict with any of these.
    But generalising and condemning a whole load of people based on your beliefs, that's ok?
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    (Original post by storna)
    How foolish, Islam didn't invent those things - intelligent men did who just happened to be Muslims. It's like saying that Christianity invented the three laws of motion.
    From his post, I construed that he believes religion is somehow averse to science.. I personally don't believe that
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    (Original post by Dream Weaver)
    But generalising and condemning a whole load of people based on your beliefs, that's ok?
    Yes, of course.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...ld-469452.html

    Religion and science, in my opinion, do not collide.
    The Arabic world's prominence in science was over a thousand years ago. Since circa 1500 the Islamic world has just regressed and produced little of note. For example there was some idiotic rule in the Ottoman Empire whereby books couldn't be printed until the late 18th century because of a religious degree. Thus none of the scientific innovation in Europe filtered through to Turkey, helping the Ottoman Empire along the way in it's slow decline.

    Religion has been just as negative a presence in Christian Europe aswell. It was only the triumph of science over religion that enabled the modern world to be built. Hell it was only 500 years ago that Galileo was being persecuted by religious authorities because he had the cheek of suggesting the earth orbitted the sun.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    The Arabic world's prominence in science was over a thousand years ago. Since circa 1500 the Islamic world has just regressed and produced little of note. For example there was some idiotic rule in the Ottoman Empire whereby books couldn't be printed until the late 18th century because of a religious degree. Thus none of the scientific innovation in Europe filtered through to Turkey, helping the Ottoman Empire along the way in it's slow decline.

    Religion has been just as negative a presence in Christian Europe aswell. It was only the triumph of science over religion that enabled the modern world to be built. Hell it was only 500 years ago that Galileo was being persecuted by religious authorities because he had the cheek of suggesting the earth orbitted the sun.
    And what is your point? You say that as though the modern world is the be-all-and-end-all, the best thing ever. Sure, doing things like getting to the moon is "cool", and its great that medicine can cure us, but last time I checked, we are destroying the planet, our society is decadent, a few men have the power to wipe out every human being on the planet with tens of thousands of nukes, and a thousand other problems.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    And what is your point? You say that as though the modern world is the be-all-and-end-all, the best thing ever. Sure, doing things like getting to the moon is "cool", and its great that medicine can cure us, but last time I checked, we are destroying the planet, our society is decadent, a few men have the power to wipe out every human being on the planet with tens of thousands of nukes, and a thousand other problems.
    We also have the highest living standards and life expectancy in human history. We have a very comfortable lifestyles, we're well fed, can take regular holidays, we're not going to die of smallpox or cholera before we reach 30 etc etc.

    Before science our lives were nasty, short and brutish. Now we have quite good lives and to regress to some environment where the words of a 1,400 year old book probably written by some random Middle Eastern guy off his face on drugs (the Bible is the same, just check out Revelation) hold more relevance than scientific findings and the entire world system which has been based around them is idiotic.

    Religion is for people scared of death. Nothing more, nothing less. It has been for a good while now. God is dead as Friedrich Nietzsche said.
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    (Original post by Deema)
    Obviously. A Sharia Law political "party", so to speak, wouldn't even get in the running in Europe during an election due to EU/ UN rules. My explanation was just to demonstrate that it is not a necessity, but a choice (albeit one that cannot be made in the West which= good thing)
    And the courts would probably set aside legislation breaching fundamental human rights, regardless of whether the majority elected in Parliament enacted it.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Religion is for people scared of death. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Completely untrue.. in fact, the opposite is surely true.

    (Original post by ajp100688)
    It has been for a good while now. God is dead as Friedrich Nietzsche said.
    A quick google gave me evidence that 2.5% of the world's population classify themselves as atheist. That leaves 97.5% of the world's population believing in a supreme being, and that would mathematically be more theists now than at any other point in the history of the Earth. God, is anything but "dead", and the recent prominence of atheism is, in my opinion, an ephemeral blip on the human timeline that has appeared simply because of the transition from the 21st century Western culture to a more religious one.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Completely untrue.. in fact, the opposite is surely true.
    Not really. Religion teaches you that this world doesn't matter because there is one beyond it and everything you do in this world is just proving yourself to join that next world. Why do we want there to be a life beyond this world? because we're scared of death and what it represents. Ipso facto religion derives from the unknown entity that is death. In the past it was also used to explain many other things but science has proven it wrong and replaced it in this role.

    A quick google gave me evidence that 2.5% of the world's population classify themselves as atheist. That leaves 97.5% of the world's population believing in a supreme being, and that would mathematically be more theists now than at any other point in the history of the Earth. God, is anything but "dead", and the recent prominence of atheism is, in my opinion, an ephemeral blip on the human timeline that has appeared simply because of the transition from the 21st century Western culture to a more religious one.
    Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism and Confusianism don't believe in a supreme being. Furthermore many people are agnostic or simply put down the religion they were raised in as their answer in questionnaires. Furthermore many people suggest they are Christians but never go to the church, as far back as the 1940s church attendences were struggling to reach 30% of the country, let alone now. All of which represents a widespread antipathy to religion, which develops into agnosticism or atheism.

    Europe is ahead of the curve, as it has been in most things in this world.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I'm White, and not someone you'd expect to be Muslim. However, I have a rising interest in Islam, and so too do many other White people in this country and other Western nations. There is growing dissatisfaction with the "typical" Western lifestyle. This is a huge generalisation, but I believe that the White lifestyle/culture in this country is, to put it bluntly, highly degenerate, being orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight. I believe Islam could provide the solution to these, and I may very well soon be one of the many tens, if not hundreds of thousands of White people to formally embrace Islam.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lim-faith.html
    Whenever I read a post like this a pit just grows in my stomach.

    Sometimes it is scary to think how many average people would be alright with dictatorship and authoritarianism.
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    Yayyyyyyy the east!!!!!!!!! Things are so peaceful in islamic countries like Egipt, Tunisia, Kuweit, Iemen and, especially Libya. I hear that Libya is like heaven on hearth. Also humam rights are thoroughly respected and enforced in those countries. Not to talk about women rights! Very well treated and respected are women there!
    Can I suggest something? Get the **** out of the so evil West and go to "The Paradise". We really don't need people like you here! (Go to Libya, something funny might happen to you)

    N.B.: this is merely a post of opportunity. Even if part of the islamic world wasn't falling apart as we speak there would still be a world of **** we could talk about to prove the OP's stupidity.

    P.S.: Democracy sucks! Human rights are overrated!
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    (Original post by storna)
    And the courts would probably set aside legislation breaching fundamental human rights, regardless of whether the majority elected in Parliament enacted it.
    right...
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    We also have the highest living standards and life expectancy in human history. We have a very comfortable lifestyles, we're well fed, can take regular holidays, we're not going to die of smallpox or cholera before we reach 30 etc etc.

    Before science our lives were nasty, short and brutish. Now we have quite good lives and to regress to some environment where the words of a 1,400 year old book probably written by some random Middle Eastern guy off his face on drugs (the Bible is the same, just check out Revelation) hold more relevance than scientific findings and the entire world system which has been based around them is idiotic.

    Religion is for people scared of death. Nothing more, nothing less. It has been for a good while now. God is dead as Friedrich Nietzsche said.
    Science has also allowed us to come to know that things like alcohol are harmful to us. Will that mean you'll stop drinking? Logical course of action isn't it, since you seem to hold our long life expectancy in high esteem.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    It will if the stories about "Muslims becoming the majority within a generation" are true. Indeed, I do see the point - I virtually never see "traditional White British" families with more than 1 or 2 children, but it's a common sight to see Asian Muslim families with 6 or 7 running around..
    It may become a majority religion... but by that time the rest of the population would have become (non religiously) atheist
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    (Original post by siwelmail)
    Whenever I hear Islam I hear terrorism in my head echoing, that's not being racist, that's just looking at a trend
    Woop! NEG REP!
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    (Original post by Wucker)
    Whenever I read a post like this a pit just grows in my stomach.

    Sometimes it is scary to think how many average people would be alright with dictatorship and authoritarianism.
    I personally believe we can combine democracy and Islam, so I am not endorsing a dictatorship. We already have an authoritarian government.. CCTV cameras everywhere, extremely strict laws on guns, anti-White policies such as positive discrimination, and so on.
 
 
 
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