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    (Original post by Pax Amerifauna)
    Ok, but I'm not sure if you understand exactly what the implications of saying Shari'a is based 100% on the Qur'an are.
    You are simply excellent at twisting people's words. That's not what I said. I said the Quranic Sharia is the basis of 100% of all other Sharia variations- as in all Sharias have been based even partially on that of the Quran, not that all Sharia is 100% Quranic and then some.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Would the superior culture not advance? Last I checked the Muslim world stopped being the forefront of anything but Human Rights Violations in around 1600 AD

    Also, Western Secular countries have the highest standards of life of any other country. Far less Human Rights violations, far more freedom etc. When you look at religious states, all you see is failure and opression. I'd rather be decedant and morally bankrupt in your eyes than be a slave to some autocratic, dogmatic bull****.
    So you think the only definition of a superior culture is their rate of technological advancement?
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    So you think the only definition of a superior culture is their rate of technological advancement?

    I don't think he does. He listed several other factors, such as human rights violations, standard of living, freedom and implied there are more by use of that small but important contraction etc. Did you miss those?
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    Why are people who worship Islam so hell-bent on converting everyone else? Jeez give it a break, they act like the only way to "save" our western culture is by joining a religion.
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    (Original post by PorridgeMonster)
    Why are people who worship Islam so hell-bent on converting everyone else? Jeez give it a break, they act like the only way to "save" our western culture is by joining a religion.
    why dont you ask the OP if he was nagged by muslims to convert to islam?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I don't think he does. He listed several other factors, such as human rights violations, standard of living, freedom and implied there are more by use of that small but important contraction etc. Did you miss those?
    You're missing the point. The factors he listed were a different topic to what we were discussing. I said that culture is not technology, he said that a superior culture would advance more technologically. What I was trying to say in #164 was that a "superior culture" would not always produce more technological advancement than an "inferior culture". Therefore, just because research in Islamic countries has, in the last few centuries, been slow, does not imply that the Islamic "culture" is inferior, which is what he was implying in #161.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    I said that culture is not technology, he said that a superior culture would advance more technologically. .
    He didn't actually; he asked you if a superior culture would not advance. Then he added (with "also") other non-technological factors which give a more complete picture.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    He didn't actually; he asked you if a superior culture would not advance
    To which I replied in such a way to answer his question.

    Think of it like:

    Him: "Do cars have wings?"
    Me: "Does that car over there have wings?"
    Him: "Ah, I see, they don't."
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    To which I replied in such a way to answer his question.

    Think of it like:

    Him: "Do cars have wings?"
    Me: "Does that car over there have wings?"
    Him: "Ah, I see, they don't."
    It was a bit more like:

    James82: Oh the irony, a post timestamped with a Gregorian date in English on a UK website on the internet. [notice the mention of the Gregorian dates - nothing to do with technology

    Steevee: It's funny how they condemn our decadent culture, and yet are more than ready to take advantage of every advancement we bring. [remember, not all advances (e.g. the calendar system) are in areas of technology, which wasn't even mentioned].

    You: Culture =! technology
    Steevee: Would the superior culture not advance? Last I checked the Muslim world stopped being the forefront of anything but Human Rights Violations in around 1600 AD [no mention of technology]

    Also, Western Secular countries have the highest standards of life of any other country. Far less Human Rights violations, far more freedom etc.
    [i.e. it isn't just technology, in his view]

    You: So you think the only definition of a superior culture is their rate of technological advancement? [Bringing it back to technology alone and putting words into his mouth]

    Note who was the only one to mention technology after James82's original comment.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    , highly degenerate, being orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight.
    Religion is too fanatical and often leads to retardation = fact! :eek:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    James82: Oh the irony, a post timestamped with a Gregorian date in English on a UK website on the internet. [notice the mention of the Gregorian dates - nothing to do with technology

    Steevee: It's funny how they condemn our decadent culture, and yet are more than ready to take advantage of every advancement we bring. [remember, not all advances (e.g. the calendar system) are in areas of technology, which wasn't even mentioned].
    Let's face it, what you're arguing is simply ludicrous. Of course we were talking about technology, he even impliedly accepted the fact we were talking about technology when he responded to my post without objecting to my use of the word technology.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    So you think the only definition of a superior culture is their rate of technological advancement?
    Not the only. But I can't see any way in which Islamic culture is superior to ours.

    The only way it can possibley be said to be better is in the perfect fairy world which, shock horror doesn't exist anywhere. Every Islamic state is declared to not 'truly' be following Islam. Well, from what I can see, states that follow Islamic law, and are Islamic as apposed to secular are backward. They have constant human rights violations, corruption of the highest level and poverty of the masses.

    Tell me, how do you find an Islamic society any better than ours?

    (Original post by Selkarn)
    Let's face it, what you're arguing is simply ludicrous. Of course we were talking about technology, he even impliedly accepted the fact we were talking about technology when he responded to my post without objecting to my use of the word technology.
    That's because I'm used to the religious trying to grab on to every little tangent to avoid answering an actual question or criticsm. No doubt, if I try to bring you back to the point yopu will only try to proceed with the tangent, so I indulge you, as the ultimate outcome will be the realisation of my first point anyway.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Not the only. But I can't see any way in which Islamic culture is superior to ours.

    The only way it can possibley be said to be better is in the perfect fairy world which, shock horror doesn't exist anywhere. Every Islamic state is declared to not 'truly' be following Islam. Well, from what I can see, states that follow Islamic law, and are Islamic as apposed to secular are backward. They have constant human rights violations, corruption of the highest level and poverty of the masses.

    Tell me, how do you find an Islamic society any better than ours?
    If I answered this question truthfully - just as if you asked this question to any true Muslim - then we would be getting into the realms of "does God exist?" and "is the Qur'an the word of God?" and the like. So I will answer it with more worldly opinions. As I said in the OP, I believe the typical Western person's culture to be orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight. I personally believe that these are negative aspects. I could attempt to back up this somewhat subjective opinion with statistical evidence, for example, possible high rates of suicides in societies with similar cultures to our own, or high rates of depression, but I understand that there are problems with these.
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    How can you ever believe that a just form of punishment is to be stoned to death for adultery? It's vile and inhumane, and is being justified under sharia law. I never want our country to turn out like that, I'd be ashamed to be a citizen of such.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    If I answered this question truthfully - just as if you asked this question to any true Muslim - then we would be getting into the realms of "does God exist?" and "is the Qur'an the word of God?" and the like. So I will answer it with more worldly opinions. As I said in the OP, I believe the typical Western person's culture to be orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight. I personally believe that these are negative aspects. I could attempt to back up this somewhat subjective opinion with statistical evidence, for example, possible high rates of suicides in societies with similar cultures to our own, or high rates of depression, but I understand that there are problems with these.
    Well of course I disagree. For every 'degenerate' there are 3 good people in our society. But that is beside the point. Quite apart from your opinion.

    How, can you in all honesty, point to any Islamic country and culture as superior to ours? Can you point to one? I certainly cannot. Every Islamic country is rife with opression, corruption and human rights violations. That is all we see under Islam as a state religion. You're 'Islamic way of life' is naught but a fairy tale. In my perfect world everything would be better to, but I have the secular insight to see that such ideals do not exist.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Well of course I disagree. For every 'degenerate' there are 3 good people in our society. But that is beside the point. Quite apart from your opinion.

    How, can you in all honesty, point to any Islamic country and culture as superior to ours? Can you point to one? I certainly cannot. Every Islamic country is rife with opression, corruption and human rights violations. That is all we see under Islam as a state religion. You're 'Islamic way of life' is naught but a fairy tale. In my perfect world everything would be better to, but I have the secular insight to see that such ideals do not exist.
    "good people"? We are not talking about good people, this thread is about happiness and improving lives.

    Here's a quote from a Muslim convert guy who I've read a lot from:

    What contrast have you found between people’s lives in Egypt and the UK?

    Egyptians were poor, suffered hardships, yet were happy. They left everything in the hands of Allah and forget their miseries when they return home. Prayers help them place their worries before their God. I noticed humility as well as intimacy in Islamic prayers.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    "good people"? We are not talking about good people, this thread is about happiness and improving lives.

    Here's a quote from a Muslim convert guy who I've read a lot from:
    You say that our society is like that as a whole. But I believe the people who suffer the thngs you mention to the point that they have a 'bad' life are a minority, just as terrorists are in Islam.

    And, let's be honest, of course a Muslim would say that. But I believe a country where everyone is poor, subject to religious discrimination and law is not a 'better' society than ours. If people feel happy because of their blind faith in a diety that is good for them, but here most of us agree that such belief is not a good thing. I'm sure if I honestly believed in some great creator who loved me and I had nought to think about except following his laws, well I may be a happier person. But I don't want to be that person. I want to be a free thinking individual, with free will and Human Rights.
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    And none of what was said in the OP has any bearing on the truth of the matter, which is that the logical, metaphysical basis of the existence of god is seriously lacking.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    "good people"? We are not talking about good people, this thread is about happiness and improving lives.

    Here's a quote from a Muslim convert guy who I've read a lot from:
    So basically, religion is a disincentive to actually improve the place in which you live? Thats all I get from that. Pigs are happy rolling round in ****, you realise? Wilful ignorance is not a virtue.
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    (Original post by Selkarn)
    If I answered this question truthfully - just as if you asked this question to any true Muslim - then we would be getting into the realms of "does God exist?" and "is the Qur'an the word of God?" and the like. So I will answer it with more worldly opinions. As I said in the OP, I believe the typical Western person's culture to be orientated around materialism, consumerism, alcohol, drugs, casual sex, highly dependent on the government to provide, and also suffers (in my view) from a lack of religious insight. I personally believe that these are negative aspects. I could attempt to back up this somewhat subjective opinion with statistical evidence, for example, possible high rates of suicides in societies with similar cultures to our own, or high rates of depression, but I understand that there are problems with these.
    I've got bad news for you. Those aspects of western society that you don't like are not going to change for the better (in your eyes). Not only that, but western society is going to become more secular as time goes by, and the chances of it becoming Islamic are slim to zero. If these things really are important to you you are going to have to think about moving to a Moslem country. I suggest that Saudi Arabia will put you closer to Mecca and Medina. At least you'll be able to find out at first hand whether or not living there is an improvement. Be sure and let us know, won't you?
 
 
 
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