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Why the HELL is David Cameron trying to "be down" with black people. watch

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    (Original post by StandardCarpet)
    You're confusing two different debates here. One concerns the postulate that wealthier students are, in general, better coached to successful Oxford application than poorer students; the second concerns the postulate that Oxford is a racially discriminatory institution which makes admissions decisions based upon prospective students' race.

    The first debate you redress in the post I have quoted immediately above, and, loosely, I agree with the opinion you put forward as evidenced by admissions statistics.

    Your opinion on the second debate is what I am absolutely contending. Your original post carried the implication that, if two groups of one hundred students each applied to Oxford, the black group would be less successful than the white group because they are black. The reason for me assuming this particular implication was the sarcastic "Ofcourse we'll never find out".

    You are either, then, contradicting yourself in your later posts - you claim you know why black applicants and generally less successful than white applicants owing to financial background circumstances as per the first of the two debates I outlined above - or you are outright stating that Oxford University is a racist institution.

    If you admit to contradicting yourself - you now "[have] found out" why the admissions statistics are the way they are - we have no further argument. If you don't admit to contradicting yourself, I categorically state that you are wrong in saying that Oxford is racially discriminatory.

    Sorry for the robotic phrasing of that post; this topic is important to me, and as such I have tried to be as thorough as I can.
    I understand where you're coming from and thanks for your input.

    I think I should have been more specific and clear. I forgot to mention that maybe the reason why more white students are gaining admission might be because lots of black students don't tend to pick up the 'so called' traditional subjects at A'level. This might have an effect when it comes to filtering the most academic and the slightly less academic when it comes to subject choices.
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    What I'm mad about is the fact that everyone hates David Cameron yet they still voted for the Tories :nothing:
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    I understand where you're coming from and thanks for your input.

    I think I should have been more specific and clear. I forgot to mention that maybe the reason why more white students are gaining admission might be because lots of black students don't tend to pick up the 'so called' traditional subjects at A'level. This might have an effect when it comes to filtering the most academic and the slightly less academic when it comes to subject choices.


    white student are underrepresented. asian student are overrepresented.


    official oxford admissions breakdown:




    ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statist ics/ethnic_origin.html
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    (Original post by Rob da Mop)
    I'm very confused. Your point has seemed throughout this thread to be that black people should be getting in and that black people shouldn't bother applying even if they have got the grades, when in actual fact the practice is more "people without 3 As need not apply".
    I am not saying that black people needs to gain admission into the university. I, for example, wouldn't have applied there even if I had 10A*s because I understand the diffculty of gaining a place there. The chances are really slim.

    All I am saying is that it is completely unfair to reject a capable student just because they might have gone to a comprehensive school instead of a grammer or private school. This is why I bring in the idea of cultural capital which more white background tend to have. Black backgrounds and other ethnic minorities tend to be culturally deprivated.
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    (Original post by sherlllll)
    Hah, actually Oxbridge do ask for pictures from most candidates.
    I find that very unlikely, to be honest.
    If I remember rightly they even go so far as to anonymise names and similar details when selecting candidates to invite to interview.

    That said, you can bet your lunch that the majority of the "ethnic minorities" are Chinese people.
    My course in particular has a very high concentration of Chinese (which is unsurprising).

    I for one am of mixed black/white descent, and have faced no discrimination, negative or positive, at all.
    Nor am I the only (mixed) black person on my course.


    All that aside, I had the (very significant) benefit of a private education, and well-educated parents who taught me before and during my school times as well.
    That sort of thing is far more significant than what skin colour you are, though it may well correlate with it.
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    I am not saying that black people needs to gain admission into the university. I, for example, wouldn't have applied there even if I had 10A*s because I understand the diffculty of gaining a place there. The chances are really slim.

    All I am saying is that it is completely unfair to reject a capable student just because they might have gone to a comprehensive school instead of a grammer or private school. This is why I bring in the idea of cultural capital which more white background tend to have. Black backgrounds and other ethnic minorities tend to be culturally deprivated.
    On the other hand, is it fair to discriminate against somebody from a private school who got 3 A*s? Who's to say they wouldn't have got them at a state school? I'm on both sides of the coin here - I'm white, upper-middle class, but went to a rather crappy state secondary and a good state 6th form. I then ended up in Cambridge which has proven to me really, that this system does work fairly well - not saying it couldn't be improved, but what really needs improving is the state schools themselves, and quite probably the attitudes of parents and cultures in poorer classes towards education.
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    (Original post by CombineHarvester)
    How do they know? Do they ask for a profile pic? Unless you mean the interviewers are racist and cross their name off as soon as they find out they're black?
    If you ever filled the UCAS form, you'd notice that you have to state your ethnicity.
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    (Original post by Rob da Mop)
    On the other hand, is it fair to discriminate against somebody from a private school who got 3 A*s? Who's to say they wouldn't have got them at a state school? I'm on both sides of the coin here - I'm white, upper-middle class, but went to a rather crappy state secondary and a good state 6th form. I then ended up in Cambridge which has proven to me really, that this system does work fairly well - not saying it couldn't be improved, but what really needs improving is the state schools themselves, and quite probably the attitudes of parents and cultures in poorer classes towards education.
    Now I'm conversating with a reasonable person. I completely agree with all those points.

    All I'm saying it is not fair to reject candidates from comprehensive schools and on the other hand it is also not fair to reject someone from a top private school. In this case, it will be reasonable to pick the fellow from the private school as admission rate is mostly like 8 applications to a place.

    And like someone else has stated already, these universities are competing amongst other beastly universities such as Harvard, Yale, Princeton or to sum it all up, the Ivy league universities in the US. They all compete continuously to become the best institution in the world. So I would say conclude that what Oxbridge does is reasonable.
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    Why this obsession with Oxford? There are OTHER univerisities that often have subjects that are AS GOOD, IF NOT BETTER than Oxford (Imperial, Cambridge, UCL etc etc) that have a great number of ethnic minority students. Why always do we come back to oxford? If I weren't cynical I'd say it's because most of the media networked there
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    I personally don't see anything wrong with what he actually said. I completely agree.

    Lets face it, white middle/upper class students will be always be favoured especially coming from a private school aswell. Students from black background don't tend to attend this private schools making it much much more difficult to gain admission.
    So you agree with what he said, but want him to "STFU"?

    Hah.
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    ONCE AGAIN:

    ethnic minorities are massively overrepresented at oxford.



    19% of all students at oxford are from ethnic minority backgrounds.



    ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statist ics/ethnic_origin.html
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    (Original post by Wucker)
    So you agree with what he said, but want him to "STFU"?

    Hah.
    I said I agree with what David Cameron said lol. Not the guy on TSR
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    I said I agree with what David Cameron said lol. Not the guy on TSR
    how can you agree with what cameron said?


    hes a liar.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    how can you agree with what cameron said?


    hes a liar.
    I know he chats a lot of crap but I just agree with the statement that Oxbridge should consider candidates from a poorer background regardless of how ****ty their school was.
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    (Original post by humanrights)
    white people are underrepresented at oxford and asians are overrepresented.

    official oxford ethnic admission breakdown here:



    ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statist ics/ethnic_origin.html
    In what way do the figures support your claim?
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    I'm mixed and think that DC is barking up the wrong tree. I didn't get in because I failed an entrance test and because I applied for a v competitive joint honours course. All other feedback was extremely positive and grades were fine...basically, anyone can get in on merit and he should stop being so patronising with his figures which don't even add up.
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    I'm half black, and I support the Conservatives, but what the hell is he trying to pull?!

    Race/ethnicity shouldn't be a contributing factor in the admissions process. Oxford should accept only the best students with the proper qualifications, regardless of race. It would be equally wrong if they were to accept students just because they were black.

    Screw you, Mr. Cameron.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    They were all undergrads yes, and this was last year so all courses were AAA. Here is my source of the 452 figure - if you have a more reliable source than the Oxford uni website then please show me! http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/behind_the...es/101307.html

    Last year, 53.4% of people who got in were male. source: http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/under...ns_statistics/
    Well ok then I'll believe you. The fact is though that Cameron lied about the number of black people getting in, which immediately shows he's picking problems out of nowhere, and a lot more people don't get in than do, of all ethnicities. He can't know that Oxford choose people based on race just cause of this, maybe those people just weren't suitable for the course, regardless of grades. And if oxford isn't being racist then all Cameron seems to be doing is drawing an even bigger rift between white people and black people...
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    (Original post by JGR)
    I find that very unlikely, to be honest.
    If I remember rightly they even go so far as to anonymise names and similar details when selecting candidates to invite to interview.

    That said, you can bet your lunch that the majority of the "ethnic minorities" are Chinese people.
    My course in particular has a very high concentration of Chinese (which is unsurprising).

    I for one am of mixed black/white descent, and have faced no discrimination, negative or positive, at all.
    Nor am I the only (mixed) black person on my course.


    All that aside, I had the (very significant) benefit of a private education, and well-educated parents who taught me before and during my school times as well.
    That sort of thing is far more significant than what skin colour you are, though it may well correlate with it.
    Ah, they asked me for a passport sized photo. I had just assumed it was to prevent "interview fraud" or mistaken identity.
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    (Original post by Jacktri)
    to get into Oxford you need to revise daily to get the top grades and there aren't enough black nerds that are willing to give this kind of commitment
    Not true - two of my friends got 6As at AS Level predicted 2A*s and 2As at A2 level and 3A*s and one A, both got rejected after the interview. Sure, their interview must have gone badly, but it's rude to assume black people don't work hard or revise at all ignorant idiot. Anyway, it's true that many fewer black people apply to Oxbridge, so they will be under represented that's just how it is.
 
 
 
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