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English Independence? watch

  • View Poll Results: Would you vote for an independent England or an English parliament?
    Separate England now
    12.77%
    Separate England after the secession of one other nation
    1.06%
    Separate English Parliament within the UK
    27.66%
    Separate English Regional Assemblies within the UK
    7.45%
    Separate votes for English laws at Westminster
    18.09%
    Status Quo
    10.64%
    Re-establish primacy of Westminster (reverse devolution)
    20.21%
    Other (specify)
    2.13%

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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    A breakup of the union would almost certainly entail all nations leaving the EU, at least at first.
    How so
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    How so
    The Lisbon Treaty stipulates that no country formed from a previous member is granted automatic accession to the EU, although obviously even though Catalonia, Flanders or Scotland could break off at any time it's not been tested yet.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    The Lisbon Treaty stipulates that no country formed from a previous member is granted automatic accession to the EU, although obviously even though Catalonia, Flanders or Scotland could break off at any time it's not been tested yet.
    Ah right.

    How did you vote in the poll?
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    OK, so I've been wondering about this. We see the occasional poll on Scottish independence come up but rarely anything about English independence. Who here would vote for a separate English state given the chance? Do you support the notion of an English Parliament or something to that effect, such as "English votes for English laws"? Would you be more likely to vote for a separate England if Scotland or Wales seceded from the Union first?

    Poll to follow shortly.
    Without London the rest of the UK would be economically crippled. Personally I wouldn't want to see that happen.
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    Never going to happen. Thread is pointless.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Ah right.

    How did you vote in the poll?
    An independent England now.

    It's not that I feel there's much wrong with the current arrangement, but there's not much positive that I can see in it either. Scotland and England clearly now have different destinies to me, and there's no much point staying in a union with Wales and NI IMHO - no offence intended to the Welsh, not really their fault since it was subsumed into England much earlier and without it's choice, but it has generally been the Scottish-English relationship that created the "British" identity.

    I think it's only a matter of time until Scottish independence, and when that happens it would be better to be prepared for the eventuality by going the whole hog to dissolve the union formally.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    An independent England now.

    It's not that I feel there's much wrong with the current arrangement, but there's not much positive that I can see in it either. Scotland and England clearly now have different destinies to me, and there's no much point staying in a union with Wales and NI IMHO - no offence intended to the Welsh, not really their fault since it was subsumed into England much earlier and without it's choice, but it has generally been the Scottish-English relationship that created the "British" identity.

    I think it's only a matter of time until Scottish independence, and when that happens it would be better to be prepared for the eventuality by going the whole hog to dissolve the union formally.
    Hmm. I could see this happening if the EU becomes a lot stronger. However if the Eu weakens/falls a part. The argument such independent small countries going on there own in a pretty hostile world would be a hard one to make.
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    Why are people talking about Wales seceding from the Union?

    England annexed Wales years ago :fuhrer:
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    If only to rectify the situation where Welsh MPS can vote in the Welsh Assembly and Westminster, where Scottish MPs can vote in the Scottish Parliament and Westminster, but English MPs can only vote in Westminster.

    If we don't get say on their matters, they shoudn't get say on ours.
    Except that some things that are voted on in westminster do affect Welsh and Scottish people. So Welsh and Scottish MP's should have the right to vote in Wesminster.

    Now, if you change what you said to not allowing Welsh / Scottish MP's to vote on matters that only affect England, I would probably agree with you.

    And if you are going to do that, then it stands to reason that only Welsh MP's can vote on matters that just affect Wales in Westminster (there aren't many, but you do get the odd one here and there).
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Why are people talking about Wales seceding from the Union?

    England annexed Wales years ago :fuhrer:
    Don't know if you noticed, but the Welsh Assembly has just been given the power to pass primary legislation without the approval of Westminster. Wales still isn't a separate legal entity like Scotland, but it's on the road there.
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    I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland shouldnt be seperate entities like Scotland is now. They should all have their own assemblies that can decide on issues in the area but Westminister should control bigger matters over the UK
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    i believe several scottish and welsh mp does choose to abstain over english issue . In fact usually it is the sub party of the main party in england that usually vote

    correct me if i am wrong
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    Would be fairer if we had an english parliament for english laws.
    Probably not cheaper I would imagine, but I don't think that's bothering the scots too much.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Don't know if you noticed, but the Welsh Assembly has just been given the power to pass primary legislation without the approval of Westminster. Wales still isn't a separate legal entity like Scotland, but it's on the road there.
    It can be semi autonomous, countries in the Empire had that, but we annexed Wales a long time ago!
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    The only government that represents us is the UK parliament... so in that respect I think the english are treated worse than the rest of the UK population.

    The fact is is that there is no one to stick up for the english. I look at the welsh and scots who have their assemblies fighting to against their uni fees rising, and wonder if maybe the english had had somethiing similar, whether the uni fees would have actually been raised.

    I just kind of feel that the english are always made out to be the bad guys... which isn't fair. We have ridiculously high tuition fees and have to pay for our presciptions and so much more... and yet we are made to feel that we deserve it because we are english. I think its bordering on discrimination, after all we are all citizens of the same nation (the UK) yet treated SO differently. I've got ABSOLUTELY nothing against the scots or the welsh (I am part welsh) or the N. Irish... it's against the government, they are too scared to impose it on the other parts of the UK and know that it would be rejected by the various assemblies anyway... so they just always give us the raw deal... hmmm
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    Devolution has certainly created a bit of a headache. I firmly believe Britain is best kept together, but it's not particularly fair that members outside of England can vote on things that only effect England, yet English MP's cannot return the favour. Were you to ban the outside constituencies from voting, though, what would happen in a situation with a Conservative majority in England and a Labour majority in GB? How expensive would an English parliament be, and how would it impact the British government?

    Frankly I see this as a serious and problematic issue that isn't necessarily improved upon by dramatic change.
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    (Original post by yaymeg)
    The only government that represents us is the UK parliament... so in that respect I think the english are treated worse than the rest of the UK population.

    The fact is is that there is no one to stick up for the english. I look at the welsh and scots who have their assemblies fighting to against their uni fees rising, and wonder if maybe the english had had somethiing similar, whether the uni fees would have actually been raised.
    There's nobody to give England subsidies. Were we to reform the Barnett formula they would be raising tuition fees too.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    There's nobody to give England subsidies. Were we to reform the Barnett formula they would be raising tuition fees too.
    Why?

    In reality the Barnett formula should be reformed to give more money to at least Wales. The formula hugely underfunds us, and if we were a "region" of England, we would get a fair bit more in funding.

    Or to put it another way, people go on about England wasting money by subsidising Wales and Scotland. Yet they never mention the fact the therea re many areas in England that are subsidised more than Wales is.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Why?

    In reality the Barnett formula should be reformed to give more money to at least Wales. The formula hugely underfunds us, and if we were a "region" of England, we would get a fair bit more in funding.

    Or to put it another way, people go on about England wasting money by subsidising Wales and Scotland. Yet they never mention the fact the therea re many areas in England that are subsidised more than Wales is.
    Oh please. Never been to London? Hell, never read a newspaper? You'll get a headline every year about London "subsidising" the rest of the UK. I'm not saying that areas should get funding based purely on an average per head nor even that it should be perfectly correlated with the tax take, just that England's position as by far the biggest chunk of the British population sets restraints that can't be paid for elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    Oh please. Never been to London? Hell, never read a newspaper? You'll get a headline every year about London "subsidising" the rest of the UK.
    No where near as much as you hear english people complaining about "subsidising" Wales and Scotland.
 
 
 
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