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only 452 black students in the UK met Oxfords entry requirements! watch

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    I am just generally talking about the fact that Oxbridge do tend to favour applicants from private schools!
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    That is nonsense! They both accept roughly the same proportion of applicants from the state sector as they do from the private sector.
    Yes, and yet 93% of all children in the UK receive a state education!
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    I personally don't think that's the case.
    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...e.htm?ipg=6555

    According tot he Complete University Guide produced by The Independent newspaper.

    Look at the Student mix, Oxford has 53.3% of state school intakes for undergraduate.

    I don't knwo how reliable it is. But it could be the evidence to show that the uni is not exactly racist or discriminates against comprehensive state schools.


    (Original post by Good bloke)
    That is nonsense! They both accept roughly the same proportion of applicants from the state sector as they do from the private sector.
    True.
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    (Original post by street.lovin')
    If I applied to Oxford and get rejected I would not EVER blame them. It is not fair for private school students f they have the right qualities and everything that Oxford want but get rejected because the uni has to accept someone else from comprehensive schools who has lower ability. I am pretty sure that people from less good schools will make it in to Oxford if they have higher ability than those from private schools. It is just that majority of private educated students are from supportive parents, they recive better education and they have been taught differently resulting in having relatively greater chance of getting in. It happens so many times that it may seem as if the uni is discriminating against conprehensive schools, race or skin colours.. when to be honest, it is just all about the ability fo the person. And not about skin colours. :dontknow:

    I am not an Oxbridge supporter or anything. I am just saying what I think.

    I would be saying the same thing for other unis in the same case.
    Yeah I understand what you're talking about. Oxbridge is not a racial discriminatory institution. The main problem lies with the idea of the class system, IMO.
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    I thought exam boards didn't know our ethnicity...


    Anywho, grades are not awarded on your ethnicity, they're awarded on your exam results. If 'only' 452 black students met a typical Oxford grade requirement of an offer in comparison to say Asian or White students, does that not say more about the ethnicity than the university? 452 out of how many? That number could be fairly proportionate to the number of black students who enter sixth form/further education from the outset.

    A friend of mine studying at Cambridge told me that while it's true there are very few black people studying at Cambridge, there are also very few black people who apply in the first place, and therefore the proportion of offers to applicants is around what would be considered fair.
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    (Original post by teadrinker)
    Oxford defends its lack of blacks by claiming the statistics were skewed and that they in fact admitted 30 to 40 students of African heritage last year. They then claim that:

    "only 452 black students across the country had even achieved the A-level results demanded by Oxford to meet its minimum entry requirements for the 2009-10 academic year." [1]

    Do you reckon this statistic is accurate? When I did AS levels I wasn't aware the examiners knew my ethnicity.

    If it IS accurate, what do people make of it? Where does the fault lie? Is it a damning indictment of the low aspirations of British students of African heritage, or is it society wot is to blame?
    :facepalm:

    If it so happens that black students don't have sufficient qualifications to get into Oxford, then so be it. It would be wrong to make it easier or harder for someone to get into a university because of their skin colour.
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    Universities don´t know the students ethnicity until the interviews (do they?). So the way to find out if they were discriminating against certain people would be to check wether the number of blacks at the universities is disproportionate to the number of blacks at the interviews.
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    (Original post by maturestudy)
    Yes, and yet 93% of all children in the UK receive a state education!
    Ok, maybe I have to be more specific. I know more % of students attend comprehensive schools compared to private school. But take this as an example, If the claim of 8 applicants to a place is true and there are lets say 4 comprehensive school applicants and 4 private school applicants, all of similar academic achievement e.t.c. Who do you personally think will gain admission? (this is offcourse subjective)
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    (Original post by wallace32)
    This is just a guess but are you not black?
    My mother is black, so I guess it makes me half?
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    (Original post by Chazzer66)
    Well I care because it's plain unfair and grammar schools should be brought back to enable poor people (of any ethnicity) compete for top universities - even I at a private school think it's unfair.

    EDIT: Hmmmm nice to get negged for showing sympathy and decency. Just shows that I should be the Conservative everyone expects of me then...
    Grammar schools still exist you know..:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    Ok, maybe I have to be more specific. I know more % of students attend comprehensive schools compared to private school. But take this as an example, If the claim of 8 applicants to a place is true and there are lets say 4 comprehensive school applicants and 4 private school applicants, all of similar academic achievement e.t.c. Who do you personally think will gain admission? (this is offcourse subjective)
    To asnwer your question, the person who has the to most potential of getting in will gain admission. They would be the ones that has the right qualities and grades for the course and Oxford.
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    (Original post by angelmxxx)
    But it's not dependent on their race though - I'm mixed race, did traditional subjects etc etc. But I'm middle class.
    There are 1000s of white children doing non-traditional subjects, and they tend to be at schools in deprived/working class areas.

    Not all black students are the same - plenty of non-white parents went to university!

    You can't say that all black students have less "cultural capital" and have uninformed (regarding higher education) parents because that's clearly not true. If you look at the stats, access to HE is actually far more divided on social class/socio-economic lines than any other way. A higher % of black people are non-middle/upper class than white people, which is why it can appear affected by race.

    And why can't privately educated people go to Oxford? What?!

    I agree with the argument that you put across. I am not saying that private educated people should not go to Oxford. All I am saying is that the are the ones that are likely to gain admission into Oxford or what do you think?
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    (Original post by maturestudy)
    Yes, and yet 93% of all children in the UK receive a state education!
    The reason private schools offer such a large proportion of the Oxbridge candidates is simply that parents who can afford it and who live in an area with no grammar schools are quite likely to send their bright children to a selective private school in lieu of a state grammar school. Non-selective private schools don't perform well in terms of Oxbridge entrance.
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    Ok, maybe I have to be more specific. I know more % of students attend comprehensive schools compared to private school. But take this as an example, If the claim of 8 applicants to a place is true and there are lets say 4 comprehensive school applicants and 4 private school applicants, all of similar academic achievement e.t.c. Who do you personally think will gain admission? (this is offcourse subjective)
    The better candidates, wherever they are from.
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    (Original post by Phil1541)
    No, on average private school's generally preform better, have better preparation for oxbridge interviews, small class sizes, more supportive teachers who know uni applications inside out etc...

    All of these small perks make private school kids stronger applicants (grades and interview wise) than there state counterparts.

    I went to a state school and I got no university help what so ever, I had to research everything myself and all the school did for me was write my referance and send my form off.

    Oxbridge only let in the best (or what they see as the best during the interview assuming grades are generally the same across applicants)
    Private school kids will have more interview practise, understand what oxbridge want to see in a student and therefore be more likely to be made an offer.

    There is no preferance oxbridge will take what they think is the best student regardless of school/race/gender etc...
    This is exactly what I was meant to have put across. You have mentioned the fact that privately educated students will be better prepared for interviews and all sorts of other things and they will be supported throughout the way compared to someone from a state school.

    So would you not say that a privately educated students will have more chances of gaining admission?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The better candidates, wherever they are from.
    And do you not think that the better candidates are likely to be the privately educated students. They will have better preparation to conquer the interview process. They will get more support from their teachers when it comes to university application e.t.c. COMPARED to a state school students.

    So who would you think will gain admission if all those criteria are satisfied?
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    This is exactly what I was meant to have put across. You have mentioned the fact that privately educated students will be better prepared for interviews and all sorts of other things and they will be supported throughout the way compared to someone from a state school.

    So would you not say that a privately educated students will have more chances of gaining admission?
    Yes but on the students own academic merit, the student still needs to be smart, show subject flair and genuine interest in the interview.

    A state school student can do all of these off his own back but its just generally seen as harder due to lack of support (sweeping generalisation here)

    If we get two identical students from a state and private school and get them both to apply, arguably they should have equal chances of getting in, there's nothing stopping a state school children with the right grades motivation and subject flair from getting a place.

    All private schools do, is give you more help if you need it, you can do just as well at a state school just you need to be arguably more disciplined and focussed from the beginning as your school is not going to spoon feed you through the process

    (I am making generalisations here, obviously not all private schools spoon feed there students with uni information and interview tips and some state schools offer tons of oxbridge support)

    Private schools do have slight advantages over there state counterparts but at the end of the day its the student who is being interviewed/grades which count and no school can garuantee you straight A* and an offer from oxbridge.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The reason private schools offer such a large proportion of the Oxbridge candidates is simply that parents who can afford it and who live in an area with no grammar schools are quite likely to send their bright children to a selective private school in lieu of a state grammar school. Non-selective private schools don't perform well in terms of Oxbridge entrance.
    So you've shifted your position from "That is nonsense! They both accept roughly the same proportion of applicants" to one of accepting they do favour privately educated applicants, but only because there's an element of 'selection' there.

    Well that's very interesting because the view of most parents I know is that the only genuine selection process is whether or not you can afford the tuition fees.
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    This is exactly what I was meant to have put across. You have mentioned the fact that privately educated students will be better prepared for interviews and all sorts of other things and they will be supported throughout the way compared to someone from a state school.

    So would you not say that a privately educated students will have more chances of gaining admission?
    Maybe, but probably not because they went to private schools. It is more likely because they are, as a group, a little bit brighter and have significantly better environments at home - in terms of attitude towards education, discipline, focus,and expectation, not money.
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    (Original post by Khaysha-Saine)
    Yes I understand that ALL races have there issues with culture and where they grow up etc.. but we cant over look the fact that a lot more white people have a better chance than black/ethnic people to get into a top ranking university and therefore more ethnic people need to be let thought the system until that bridge is gapped. I don’t think EVERY black person should be a lot to get into a grammar school based on nothing but there skin colour but if you have a school of 400 grammar students and 370 of them are white because all the ethnic children attended poorer inner city schools how is that fair? Some of them might have missed out on a place by a few marks/ didn’t get in because 2 many people hit the criteria, but it doesn’t mean they don’t show potential and drive to be a high achiever. I’m not saying it’s the fairest way because it isn’t, it would mean taking some places of white children that might have been as equally deserving but some times scarifies have to be made in order for other races to catch up 10-15 years down the line there should be enough black children in better nurseries, and primary schools to pass the 11+ on there own merits but getting better results but right now and with no chance its not going to happen.
    So despite social/economic background being the main (if not only factor) that seems to be causing these disparities, instead of easing entry based on this factor you go straight to race?

    I see no reason why a poor, deprived, white child should be discriminated against in favour of a child from a wealthy, stable family, just because of the colour of his/her skin...

    Racism takes many forms and I find yours just as disgusting as any BNP inspired hate campaign...


    Aside from that, with ethnic minorities making up ~20% of the Oxford intake, I find it somewhat funny it still manages to be declared universally racist by people...
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    (Original post by Dr.Sweet Science)
    Why should grammar schools enrol more ethnic pupils especially if it is at the cost of a poor white kid whose dream was to go to that specific grammar school. 11+ is an absolutely fair system and many ethnic kids go on to pass and represent the grammar school i know this being a Pakistani who has gone to a private grammar school. As for people saying Blacks are lazy, thats just b/s it's bad parenting on their part as some don't push their kids early on in life so obviously when there older they are not going to have the focus and discipline to succeed in their studies. Blacks are just as able as any other race!


    :dry:
    Well the parents ignorance is down to them being poorly educated themselves so it’s basically a vicious circle and something has to break it. That is my idea and like it or not the idea would work and it wouldn’t take long. As for it being at the expense of a poor white person who has dreamed of going to a grammar school as I said earlier maybe it isn’t fair but sometimes life isn’t. Blacks aren’t just as able as any other race! We have had years of oppression! Did I miss the history book that recalled the Pakistani slave trade? No didn’t think so. We have been held back and it’s only been 300 years (about 3 generations) since it ended so were still not as able as every other race. Its getting better but you don’t say racist discrimination isn’t still around.
 
 
 
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