Biology - should it be a Science?

Original post by JayTeeKay

Oh, well you must be right.

Like I'm going to listen to a psychologist :tongue:

And I thought you said you'd dropped your academic snobbery :wink:

Original post by hyn_shayan

Indeed. But like someone previously said. Isn't photosynthesis, cells and such fact rather than theory as they have been seen and observed?

Two things:
1. You're confusing the scientific term 'theory'. Read j.alexanderh's post above.
2. Whilst we can observe that plants photosynthesise, and we can do various experiments to find out the mechanisms involved, there is still some speculation involved. No one has ever directly observed an enzyme alter its active site to accommodate a substrate for example.

Reply 41

DeeWave

13

Biology is definitely a science. It's about pursuit of knowledge through rational thought and experimental means.

Biology uses all the physical principles laid out in physics - it's just that the systems we deal with are so complex that we choose to assume certain known things to be true. If a biologist is thinking about how a muscle responds to exercise, they'll only concern themselves with the biological parameters and variables. Sure, the chemical bonds in individual molecules have given energies which affect how the molecules behave, but a biologist takes a more observational view of it. People with different expertise can deal with the small stuff. We build on the understanding the physical sciences provide to explain complex systems and then relate that to how organisms and even whole ecosystems function.

Reply 42

thegodofgod

19

Of course! So ultimately, you're saying that Medicine is not a science?

Reply 43

StephenP91

Original post by thegodofgod

Of course! So ultimately, you're saying that Medicine is not a science?

Medicine is the application of Science.

One thing that's always bothered me about Medicine is it's heavy roots in Statistics.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 44

Original post by thegodofgod

Of course! So ultimately, you're saying that Medicine is not a science?

Well, it's not really. Biomedicine is. The practice of medicine isn't.

Reply 45

Aphotic Cosmos

Original post by thegodofgod

Of course! So ultimately, you're saying that Medicine is not a science?

Medicine is like engineering - the application of scientific principles for practical purposes. Engineers apply physics and chemistry, medics apply biology and biochemistry. Allied strongly to science, feeding into scientific endeavour, but hard to define as part of science.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 46

Original post by DeeWave

Biology is definitely a science. It's about pursuit of knowledge through rational thought and experimental means.

Biology uses all the physical principles laid out in physics - it's just that the systems we deal with are so complex that we choose to assume certain known things to be true. If a biologist is thinking about how a muscle responds to exercise, they'll only concern themselves with the biological parameters and variables. Sure, the chemical bonds in individual molecules have given energies which affect how the molecules behave, but a biologist takes a more observational view of it. People with different expertise can deal with the small stuff. We build on the understanding the physical sciences provide to explain complex systems and then relate that to how organisms and even whole ecosystems function.

Biophysics, I think you'll find, is the answer to that.
Biology can be a science in the same vein as physics with the correct approach, but simply observing and describing isn't enough in my view.

Reply 47

Original post by JayTeeKay

simply observing and describing isn't enough in my view.

Who gives a **** about your view? Have you even been to a university lecture?

Reply 48

Original post by GodspeedGehenna

Who gives a **** about your view? Have you even been to a university lecture?

I have actually.
Who the **** cares what a psychologist has to say on the matter? At least biology tries to be a science. Psychology is a joke of a subject if I ever saw one. Maybe people would actually respect you if you had done a proper subject and not wasted your time on a silly little pseudo-science degree :wink:

Not that I think that. I just wanted to say that because you're being a ****

Grow up and have a proper discussion like an adult.

Reply 49

lukas1051

18

Lol, the arguments in this thread remind me of this comic:

Apologies if someone has already posted it, I haven't read all the posts.

Anyway, this whole thing is nothing more than physicists feeling superior because mathematics is more 'pure' and can be unquestionably proved, whereas biology is more applied and based on observation. Science isn't about theoretical proofs and formulae, it's about explaining the world, be that through theory or observation, it's still science. Even things like sociology are still sciences of sorts, they're just... less pure, because human behaviour is such a complex and random thing. It's pointless arguing about it though, because however much you may argue, having the biological knowledge to save someone's life is more important than finding prime numbers.

Reply 50

DeeWave

13

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

Medicine is like engineering - the application of scientific principles for practical purposes. Engineers apply physics and chemistry, medics apply biology and biochemistry. Allied strongly to science, feeding into scientific endeavour, but hard to define as part of science.

Sounds about right. I'd say that medicine and engineering were professional fields within the discipline of science, though they aren't exactly sciences. The underlying physics and biology are sciences. But engineers and doctors are definitely scientists - just their work is a little more of an applied science than that of a researcher in a lab.

Reply 51

thegodofgod

19

Original post by GodspeedGehenna

Well, it's not really. Biomedicine is. The practice of medicine isn't.

Is it not?

Using drugs to cure/prevent diseases?

Drugs which have a chemical structure? No Chemistry involved?

Drugs which bind to enzymes? Which are not Biological?

Reply 52

Aphotic Cosmos

Original post by JayTeeKay

I have actually.
Who the **** cares what a psychologist has to say on the matter? At least biology tries to be a science. Psychology is a joke of a subject if I ever saw one. Maybe people would actually respect you if you had done a proper subject and not wasted your time on a silly little pseudo-science degree :wink:

Not that I think that. I just wanted to say that because you're being a ****

Grow up and have a proper discussion like an adult.

You've just ridiculed two vast and important fields of science - psychology and biology - for no good reason and without justification, and you're telling someone who has repeatedly burned you to "grow up"? :facepalm2:

Psychology is a science. Sociology is a science. Political science is a science. Geology is a science. Geography is a science. Hell, pretty much eveything that employs empiricism and derives theories through healthy discourse between interested professionals is a science. People within these and other fields look at what's happened, analyse it, reason for it and try to establish theories that hold true for the majority of the time based on what they've seen. Science is far more than physicists and chemists working in a lab, it's a way of seeing the world.

Reply 53

Revd. Mike

Original post by JayTeeKay

I have actually.
Who the **** cares what a psychologist has to say on the matter? At least biology tries to be a science. Psychology is a joke of a subject if I ever saw one. Maybe people would actually respect you if you had done a proper subject and not wasted your time on a silly little pseudo-science degree :wink:

Not that I think that. I just wanted to say that because you're being a ****

Grow up and have a proper discussion like an adult.

Stop being so rude. It wouldn't be so bad if you were at least right, but this is just embarrassing. I am a scientist, I am employed in an academic research institution. I read scientific journals every single day. Do you know what they're not all filled with? Equations for every little thing, because that's not what science is about.

Reply 54

Original post by JayTeeKay

I have actually.
Who the **** cares what a psychologist has to say on the matter? At least biology tries to be a science. Psychology is a joke of a subject if I ever saw one. Maybe people would actually respect you if you had done a proper subject and not wasted your time on a silly little pseudo-science degree :wink:

Not that I think that. I just wanted to say that because you're being a ****

Grow up and have a proper discussion like an adult.

Pfft, please. You're not a physicist. You're a jumped up little school kid.

Reply 55

thegodofgod

19

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

Medicine is like engineering - the application of scientific principles for practical purposes. Engineers apply physics and chemistry, medics apply biology and biochemistry. Allied strongly to science, feeding into scientific endeavour, but hard to define as part of science.

What about drug trials in medicine? Is that not experimentation? (Which is how "Science" has been defined here).

Reply 56

Original post by Aphotic Cosmos

You've just ridiculed two vast and important fields of science - psychology and biology - for no good reason and without justification, and you're telling someone who has repeatedly burned you to "grow up"? :facepalm2:

Note the words "Not that I think that".

Idiot.

You are correct about the sciences though, I'll grant you that. But some are definitely more important than others.

Reply 57

Original post by GodspeedGehenna

Pfft, please. You're not a physicist. You're a jumped up little school kid.

Better than being a psychologist? I think so.

Reply 58

Original post by thegodofgod

Is it not?

Using drugs to cure/prevent diseases?

Drugs which have a chemical structure? No Chemistry involved?

Drugs which bind to enzymes? Which are not Biological?

Practicing medicine is not science. Treating patients is not conducting experiments in accordance with the scientific method. Medicine is driven by science, but it is not science itself.

Reply 59

Revd. Mike