Turn on thread page Beta

Is there a link between classical music and level of intelligence? watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Oh, let's get off the high horses and leave the "absurds" and the "nothing whatsoever" out of it.

    It's not that stupid a thing to say. Although developing an appreciation of something maybe a bit esoteric/"highbrow" isn't the same as being smart, there is a link and it's often distinct.
    I.e. it can be to do with the correlation between concentration and intelligence- classical music has more complicated melodies and they're harder to really "get" than other types of music.

    Or stuff like opera- your enjoyment of that kind of music is a lot more if you read up on it beforehand- intelligence plays a hand in interest (and vice versa, obvs). So far I've only really given the more accessible composers a chance- but some stuff I'd never have listened to usually, I've played in piano exams and I really enjoy it and listen to the professional recordings for fun. I'm not v. clever when it comes to music, but Grade 8ers are definitely smart and they will probably hold a deep appreciation for the "boring" classical music, because their smarts have led them to opportunities which exposed them to the music...etc etc.

    Then there's the argument that it makes you more clever, by making you focus and exercising your mind. Anything "above and beyond" that you do in a child's formative years will stand them in good stead for later, especially in terms of intelligence and developing what innate ability they already have.
    So, yes, there can be strong links.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Well, the top achievers in my school with the As and A*s tend to listen to pop/R&B/rap and mainstream music.
    Not many listen to classical music, so I can't say.
    Generally, although there may be a correlation between classical music and intelligence, I don't think there's a causal link. Because from what I've seen among the more clever people the genres vary too much to tell.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    It's one of those things that some people do because they think it makes them seem intelligent/quirky/mysterious. See also

    Pretending to like maths, yet being unable to understand basic concepts
    Constantly talking about zombie/pirates/ninjas
    saying awesome and epic ceaselessly
    reading Freakonomics and suddenly thinking you see deeper into the worlds workings than all the other sheeple around you
    Reading Freakonomics 2 and thinking you see even deeper than the Freakonomics 1 sheeple
    Spouting memes ( THE CAKE IS A LIE LOL)
    Watching the big bang theory without vomiting
    Reposting XKCD comics
    Science is AWESOME
    Riding a bicycle that is designed to be less efficient than other bikes
    Only reading classics
    Watching obscure films they don't enjoy
    ****ging off 'dumb' people
    pointing out other peoples' logical fallacies while (somewhat impressively) creating entirely new and novel fallacies of their own
    Starting >1% of conversations with 'Did you know...'
    oktaku
    on a more general level, they tend to be very closed minded in many areas. 'I only listen to nordic metal because pop music is manufactured garbage and you are all sheeple'
    Having embarrassing hard-ons for Richard Dawkins (OMG HE IS MY GOD LOLOLOLLL)
    I'm a girl! AND I PLAY VIDEO GAMES! DON'T TRY AND DATE ME SILLY BOYS HEHEHEHEH
    Putting the opposite sex on a pedestal for obscure and unknowable reasons
    Saying 'sheeple' (oh god saying sheeple)
    Sticking really hard to one political ideology, particularly extreme ones like anarchism or libertarianism

    Really there are a few different species in this group of poseurs, and the qualities above are a mixture from different species. We have:
    Self confessed science nerd, with figurines, a strong interest in otaku, xkcd, zombie, raptors, games, computing, internet culture etc

    Floaty aloof humanities person, complete with should-be-a-warcrime scarf, ludicrous bike, artificially dogeared copy of something by tolstoy they have never read, underdeveloped ideas about almost everything and the ability to weaponize the words 'identity', 'irony', 'context' and 'meta' in order to suck all reason and meaning from any sentence.

    There are others of course. Briefly:
    Economics student with extreme right wing bent, derides youth and substitutes (unverified blog) knowledge for wisdom
    Medics that somehow manage to be self depreciating and devastatingly smug simultaneously
    The person who claims to have done work all semester, instead concentrating on some other esoteric pursuit, and comes out with a first

    etc etc it goes on.
    No one is that smart. I'm not that smart (spell check was doing some heavy lifting in this post) and you aren't either. Stop being obsessed with trying to look smart and actually learn something. Oh, and redact your proposed thesis on 'Gender context and meta-identity in post colonialist pirate zombie ninjas (LOL) in pre war scotland : A novel approach leveriging free market synergies and closed torus Lie groups' while you are at it.
    /RANT
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    possibly. it takes patience and intelligence to appreciate the music. however, it doesn't improve people's intelligence, and any correlation is minor.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    I'm of reasonable intelligence; drum and bass makes up 80% of the music I listen to
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sidewalkwhenshewalks)
    Pretending to like maths, yet being unable to understand basic concepts
    Is this a real phenomenon?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Is this a real phenomenon?
    Unfortunately it is all too common.

    It's that sinking feeling when you are talking to what you thought was a real person about something and they say ' I know pi to 15 digits!' or 'Have you seen the mythbusters? You know, the one with all teh (!!) awesome science and explosions that were all like WHOOOSH CRASHHHH BOOM ?Man i LOVE MATH(!)'. That's when you know you've got one.

    Maths is cool, or more accurately it is beautiful. Some of the results and proofs are stunning, even if i can only understand them on an amateur level quite often. What maths is not however, is graph jokes on xkcd and mentos and diet coke.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sidewalkwhenshewalks)
    Unfortunately it is all too common.

    It's that sinking feeling when you are talking to what you thought was a real person about something and they say ' I know pi to 15 digits!' or 'Have you seen the mythbusters? You know, the one with all teh (!!) awesome science and explosions that were all like WHOOOSH CRASHHHH BOOM ?Man i LOVE MATH(!)'. That's when you know you've got one.

    Maths is cool, or more accurately it is beautiful. Some of the results and proofs are stunning, even if i can only understand them on an amateur level quite often. What maths is not however, is graph jokes on xkcd and mentos and diet coke.
    sounds to me here that you're guilty of what you're accusing others of - a post earlier. defining maths by what it's not? while talking of abstract results and proofs?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Asbestos P.)
    sounds to me here that you're guilty of what you're accusing others of - a post earlier. defining maths by what it's not? while talking of abstract results and proofs?
    I think you are confused. If maths is not a collection of techniques and tools, as well as the results derived from their use then what is it? I'm not sure what accusation you are leveraging at me. Could you make yourself clearer at all?

    Beyond saying maths is beautiful (which it is, subjectively), i made no further claim to what maths was, merely to what I thought it wasn't, and that people who are confused about the issue irritate me (clearly!)

    EDIT: Oh perhaps you were talking about loving maths without understanding any basic concepts, sorry.
    I understand basic concepts, and I do my best to follow them as far as I can, but at some point the technicality becomes overwhelming. I at least try.
    Talk of actual maths around one of my stereotyped 'Nerds' is usually interrupted with a math joke repeated from a webcomic, shrieks of I LOVE MATH!! and talk about firefly.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sidewalkwhenshewalks)
    Unfortunately it is all too common.

    It's that sinking feeling when you are talking to what you thought was a real person about something and they say ' I know pi to 15 digits!' or 'Have you seen the mythbusters? You know, the one with all teh (!!) awesome science and explosions that were all like WHOOOSH CRASHHHH BOOM ?Man i LOVE MATH(!)'. That's when you know you've got one.

    Maths is cool, or more accurately it is beautiful. Some of the results and proofs are stunning, even if i can only understand them on an amateur level quite often. What maths is not however, is graph jokes on xkcd and mentos and diet coke.
    I'll take your word for it.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sollythewise)
    possibly. it takes patience and intelligence to appreciate the music. however, it doesn't improve people's intelligence, and any correlation is minor.
    Does it? Classical is a broad genre, and much of it (including must of the best) is as simplistic as any 'popular' music. The notion, constantly repeated here and elsewhere, that classical music is somehow more complex or 'difficult' than popular music (as if classical music wasn't popular music!) is tedious. It demeans the genre more than anything else. Jazz music suffers equally these days.

    There's a lot of wonderful classical music, but it isn't inherently more sophisticated than any other genre. I often get the impression that those who cling to this notion actually have a pretty limited understanding of the music their listening to. Take my flatmate. He knows very little about music; couldn't tell a cello from a saxophone. His rote response if he hears anything 'modern' (motown, reggae, blues, electronica - anything) is to dismiss it. When it comes to classical music (or what he perceives to be classical), however, his critical faculties fail him entirely - it's all "oh so beautiful".
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ryall)
    Classical is a broad genre, and much of it (including must of the best) is as simplistic as any 'popular' music.
    Really?

    ...
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ryall)
    Does it? Classical is a broad genre, and much of it (including must of the best) is as simplistic as any 'popular' music. The notion, constantly repeated here and elsewhere, that classical music is somehow more complex or 'difficult' than popular music (as if classical music wasn't popular music!) is tedious. It demeans the genre more than anything else. Jazz music suffers equally these days.

    There's a lot of wonderful classical music, but it isn't inherently more sophisticated than any other genre. I often get the impression that those who cling to this notion actually have a pretty limited understanding of the music their listening to. Take my flatmate. He knows very little about music; couldn't tell a cello from a saxophone. His rote response if he hears anything 'modern' (motown, reggae, blues, electronica - anything) is to dismiss it. When it comes to classical music (or what he perceives to be classical), however, his critical faculties fail him entirely - it's all "oh so beautiful".
    i'm not really into classical music, actually. i prefer bon jovi, linkin park, modern stuff (ok, bon jovi's quite old, but not 300 years old... though they'll probably still be touring in 2301!).

    i just think it is more musically complex. lots of popular modern music is basically using the same 4 or 5 chords, repetitive and simplistic. justin bieber is a perfect example.

    classical music is more complex, but that doesn't make it empirically better. that's a subjective thing.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Correlation does not imply causation.

    We're looking at a third variable situation here.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sternumator)
    I am sure there would be a link between educational achievment and classical music, people who went to oxford are more likely to listen to it than those who dropped out of school, but there isn't a link to intelligence.
    There was also an article a couple of years back that disproved this hypothesis and said it was heavy metal/rock music which made someone more intelligent. No idea which paper it was though or who researched it . But a google search came up with quite a bit.

    I personally don't think there is a link though since one set of results show one thing and another another thing. Plus, we'd have to be looking at how long they were listening to the music for, the type of education they received, did the child get any out of school tutoring, how many hours a day they were studying, what age they were introduced to the music and influence of a parent i.e. I have grown up with a child psychologist mother, so I know quite a bit of theory in this field. There are really too many variables for such a conclusive study.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Planar)
    Funnily enough, the statistic I heard was that the most intelligent were those who listened to classical music or to metal.
    I listen to both....

    does this make me the next einstien???
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    There may be a link, but obviously we know that correlation doesn't equal causation. We can't assume that listening to classical music increases one's intelligence, or that there is anything objectively "less intelligent" about other forms of music. If there is any link between the two, I'd expect it's based on the fact that classical music is culturally seen as an interest of the upper-middle classes, and that one often might need "intelligence" (or academic success) in order to maintain a position in such a social class.

    I suppose it's a bit like asking "Is there a link between eating curry and having brown skin?" or "Is there a link between wearing make-up and having a higher pitched voice?"
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    well...there is this...showing SAT scores and type of music listened to.....

    http://musicthatmakesyoudumb.virgil.gr/
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Really?

    ...
    'Simplistic' has negative connotations, I know, but I don't mean it in that way.

    (Original post by sollythewise)
    i'm not really into classical music, actually. i prefer bon jovi, linkin park, modern stuff (ok, bon jovi's quite old, but not 300 years old... though they'll probably still be touring in 2301!).

    i just think it is more musically complex. lots of popular modern music is basically using the same 4 or 5 chords, repetitive and simplistic. justin bieber is a perfect example.

    classical music is more complex, but that doesn't make it empirically better. that's a subjective thing.
    A lot of classical music is repetitive, and a lot relies on a few basic chords. There's a great gulf separating your Wagner's from your Erik Satie's.

    (I appreciate that I'm probably coming across as somewhat pedantic here, and you most likely didn't mean that much by any of your comments. My post above, beyond the first paragraph, really wasn't directed at you - it was meant more generally.)
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    No.
 
 
 
Poll
Do protests make a difference in political decisions?
Useful resources

Articles:

TSR wiki music section

Quick link:

Unanswered music threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.