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    I was trapped in that cycle since I was 16 until I hit uni. The good thing for me was that I am good at manipulating situations so did find a landlord who would take housing benefit, and did manage to haggle down a deposit to a position where I could pay it etc. Turned out to be a drug-dealer of course but such is life.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    That is awful

    What about your parents? :confused:

    I might write to my MP later today about it what part of the country are you in? Who's your MP? You could try contacting them as well. It is awful that the system puts people off from going into work

    The Government has set up a 'Conservative Policy Forum' which basically gives a topic each month and each Tory association gives their opinion and we help shape policy. The one last week was housing; our general views were that we need to build more housing. Our priorities were housing for young people and the old; our priority for 2015 was housing for retired armed services so I think many people do see the problem of housing even if they aren't experiencing it themselves.
    Why do you think I live in a hostel? My family life was never stable or good. Indeed my parents still have hundreds of pounds of my money (which I got as compensation after a homophobic attack left me in hospiatal and nearly dead last time I was homeless) which they refuse to return to me. While my relationship with my family is slowly improving, living with them would be impossible and seeing as they wont give me my money back I highly doubt they would lend me any of theirs to get myself out of this situation.

    I'm in Oxford. I've contacted various MPs about it (I've moved around a lot. I havent lived in one town for more than 6 months in over 3 years) but I'm still currently chasing my MP here about something else he isn't getting back to me about so I don't really want to load him with more for him to not get back to me about.

    Hopefully, and hopefully housing will improve. Tbh I think it should be made illegal for a landlord to refuse to accept Housing benefit as rent payment. There are plenty of advertised flats and rooms in shared houses in Oxford, but the huge majority will not accept DSS and those that do will take someone who isn't claiming benefits over someone who is.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    I've got in a fair amount of pasta as well. They should have a TV show where people from rich backgrounds have to try and survive off, say £20 a week (my current budget after rent, for a month. It would be quite interesting to see how quickly they starved.
    I remember that episode of the apprentice a couple of weeks ago, where they had to buy loads of stuff for the savoy hotel.

    Clearly none of them had been down to about £5 with a need to get a weeks worth of food, they just couldn't sniff out a bargain that well.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    It's fair in the sense that he is allowed to justify his opinion however he wishes...?
    It's a poor justification: letting other people speak for you? That doesn't justify his opinion at all.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    I was trapped in that cycle since I was 16 until I hit uni. The good thing for me was that I am good at manipulating situations so did find a landlord who would take housing benefit, and did manage to haggle down a deposit to a position where I could pay it etc. Turned out to be a drug-dealer of course but such is life.
    Yer, I'm getting out of the situation using uni as well. Getting me some student accomodation payed for by grant which will mean my income, including the part time work im starting, will be around £90 per week, so I'll actually be able to save and eat relatively good food. Just sucks waiting till September.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Tbh the fact that our economic system puts people in a situation where they have such poverty (I'm not thinking of myself here so much as families and others who have worse situations than me. I'm relatively lucky) is a disgrace, especialy when we also have such levels of affluence. Where is the oppertunity here? I recently went to apply for a job at WHSmith, where I found that in the online application they will not even accept a CV from someone who has claimed JSA in the last three years. There is no money avalible for people like to to 'make something of themselves' because all of our money is spent on essentials. The poor are often stuck into the poverty trap, while the rich stay rich due to inheritence.
    I'd agree in terms of the application to WH Smith and I'll include that in my email to Chris Grayling later; I'll copy the email onto here

    However, I'd disagree about the rich due to inheritance. Yes there are some people who are rich due to inheritance; the Chairman of Conservative Future in my area is an arrogant ******* who can't wait to whip out Daddy's cheque book. He works for his Dad's company in a comfortable director's position despite being 22. I hate people like that; people who fit the Tory stereotype (one of the reasons I resigned as Deputy Chairman because he disgusts me).

    We shouldn't tax the earth off him though. Yes he's a ******* but his Dad has built up the company, its his money that he's earned and if he wants to give a load to his son then he's entitled to do so.

    I have a middle class lifestyle; my Dad came from a working class background up north. He lived in a council flat with his Mum; his Dad died from a heart attack. His brother was in hospital with a terminal illness and his sister was in the navy. Welfare was so tight that my Dad wouldn't even be given the bus fare to visit his brother in hospital. He broke out of poverty and now lives well in Surrey

    I'd disagree that the poverty are stuck in the poverty trap as more is done to help the poor now than when my Dad was young. The point it is that we should invest resources to help the poor but I don't believe in this whole 'its unfair that he's well off; he doesn't deserve so let's tax him loads' policy.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    It's a poor justification: letting other people speak for you? That doesn't justify his opinion at all.
    Not to a standard you are applying, no. I didn't expect the justification to be any good, indeed I made the comment as quite obviously tongue in cheek, and thus don't really feel the need to follow it up. You can feel free to though
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Yer, I'm getting out of the situation using uni as well. Getting me some student accomodation payed for by grant which will mean my income, including the part time work im starting, will be around £90 per week, so I'll actually be able to save and eat relatively good food. Just sucks waiting till September.
    You will have plenty more money than me

    Which uni/course?
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Why do you think I live in a hostel? My family life was never stable or good. Indeed my parents still have hundreds of pounds of my money (which I got as compensation after a homophobic attack left me in hospiatal and nearly dead last time I was homeless) which they refuse to return to me. While my relationship with my family is slowly improving, living with them would be impossible and seeing as they wont give me my money back I highly doubt they would lend me any of theirs to get myself out of this situation.

    I'm in Oxford. I've contacted various MPs about it (I've moved around a lot. I havent lived in one town for more than 6 months in over 3 years) but I'm still currently chasing my MP here about something else he isn't getting back to me about so I don't really want to load him with more for him to not get back to me about.

    Hopefully, and hopefully housing will improve. Tbh I think it should be made illegal for a landlord to refuse to accept Housing benefit as rent payment. There are plenty of advertised flats and rooms in shared houses in Oxford, but the huge majority will not accept DSS and those that do will take someone who isn't claiming benefits over someone who is.
    I take it you feel out with your parents over your sexuality? You could be incredibly devious and tell your parents that you are sorry (for whatever it is you feel out over) and tell them you want to make a fresh start and ask them to take it back. It might be hard for you but do it so you can get back on your feet; go to university, start working and save as much as you can

    Nicola Blackwood? She's beautiful what I'd give to have her

    Ok I will quote you later with my email to Mr Grayling
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I'd disagree that the poverty are stuck in the poverty trap as more is done to help the poor now than when my Dad was young. The point it is that we should invest resources to help the poor but I don't believe in this whole 'its unfair that he's well off; he doesn't deserve so let's tax him loads' policy.
    Now, see, there is a poverty trap but it is not universal. Rowntree's studies of poverty in York in 1900 and subsequently determined that the varying degrees of poverty are such that at certain times in people's lives they are able to escape. Whether they then are able to maintain the momentum depends on a number of things and number of circumstances but in general escape from the poverty trap is possible only for small numbers of people in each generation.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I take it you feel out with your parents over your sexuality? You could be incredibly devious and tell your parents that you are sorry (for whatever it is you feel out over) and tell them you want to make a fresh start and ask them to take it back. It might be hard for you but do it so you can get back on your feet; go to university, start working and save as much as you can

    Nicola Blackwood? She's beautiful what I'd give to have her

    Ok I will quote you later with my email to Mr Grayling
    Wait, your first assumption about a familial falling out is that his sexuality was the reason and that he should apologise for it?

    What the ****?
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I'd agree in terms of the application to WH Smith and I'll include that in my email to Chris Grayling later; I'll copy the email onto here

    However, I'd disagree about the rich due to inheritance. Yes there are some people who are rich due to inheritance; the Chairman of Conservative Future in my area is an arrogant ******* who can't wait to whip out Daddy's cheque book. He works for his Dad's company in a comfortable director's position despite being 22. I hate people like that; people who fit the Tory stereotype (one of the reasons I resigned as Deputy Chairman because he disgusts me).

    We shouldn't tax the earth off him though. Yes he's a ******* but his Dad has built up the company, its his money that he's earned and if he wants to give a load to his son then he's entitled to do so.

    I have a middle class lifestyle; my Dad came from a working class background up north. He lived in a council flat with his Mum; his Dad died from a heart attack. His brother was in hospital with a terminal illness and his sister was in the navy. Welfare was so tight that my Dad wouldn't even be given the bus fare to visit his brother in hospital. He broke out of poverty and now lives well in Surrey

    I'd disagree that the poverty are stuck in the poverty trap as more is done to help the poor now than when my Dad was young. The point it is that we should invest resources to help the poor but I don't believe in this whole 'its unfair that he's well off; he doesn't deserve so let's tax him loads' policy.
    Yes, there will be examples of people comming out of the working class and making it big. There will be cases of the other way as well. The worst part is that these cases are exceptions. By inheritence I don't simply mean money passed on, but resources as well. Being braught up in a middle class enviroment is so fundementaly different to a working class one. A child in a working class enviroment simply doesn't have the oppertunities that a middle class child does.

    I'm afraid I dissagree. We should tax the hell out of them. Why is his son entitled to a better life than someone who by chance was born into a poorer background? Why is he able to live in relative luxury because of 'daddys checkbook' while working class children have to start from the bottom rung (I'm guessing that the person you're talking about didn't start working as an ordinary worker, I'm guessing his position was given to him by his dad) he can enter from the top.

    Over the last decade, the poorest tenth of the population have, on average, seen a fall in their real incomes after deducting housing costs. In other words, after adjusting for inflation, their incomes are, on average, slightly lower than a decade ago. This is in sharp contrast with the rest of the income distribution, which, on average, has seen substantial rises in their real incomes. The richest tenth of the population have seen much bigger proportional rises in their incomes than any other group.

    The rich get richer, the poor get poorer...
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Now, see, there is a poverty trap but it is not universal. Rowntree's studies of poverty in York in 1900 and subsequently determined that the varying degrees of poverty are such that at certain times in people's lives they are able to escape. Whether they then are able to maintain the momentum depends on a number of things and number of circumstances but in general escape from the poverty trap is possible only for small numbers of people in each generation.
    The study was in 1900; a great deal of it would be irrelevant for modern Britain. We have the NHS, free education, a flawed but fairly well developed welfare system; there will always be people in poverty and we will never be able to eliminate poverty unless we scrapped capitalism. However, we must do what we can, invest what resources we have in offering people practical and progressive aid. I feel that Robin Hood policies do not solve that but merely create an attitude where people look down on the poor rather than sympathise with them.
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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    You will have plenty more money than me

    Which uni/course?
    Ruskin (which basicaly runs courses by the open uni, but has lecturers and allows me to go to Oxford uni lectures and join Oxford societies and things) for the first year, then I can decide if I want to continue with them or transfer in to another uni to do the last 2 years (though this would mean the new fees). Doing History. Looking forwards to it
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    (Original post by Nothos)
    Wait, your first assumption about a familial falling out is that his sexuality was the reason and that he should apologise for it?

    What the ****?
    Of course not! I'm suggesting that he should lie and use them until he's able to support himself. Its morally the best thing to do but if they have allowed him to slip out onto the streets then I see no reason in not doing it.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Ruskin (which basicaly runs courses by the open uni, but has lecturers and allows me to go to Oxford uni lectures and join Oxford societies and things) for the first year, then I can decide if I want to continue with them or transfer in to another uni to do the last 2 years (though this would mean the new fees). Doing History. Looking forwards to it
    That sounds good then, should be fun
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    I take it you feel out with your parents over your sexuality? You could be incredibly devious and tell your parents that you are sorry (for whatever it is you feel out over) and tell them you want to make a fresh start and ask them to take it back. It might be hard for you but do it so you can get back on your feet; go to university, start working and save as much as you can

    Nicola Blackwood? She's beautiful what I'd give to have her

    Ok I will quote you later with my email to Mr Grayling
    Well, it wouldn't be a good idea to tell my dad as that would cause a falling out, and my mum didn't like it when she found out, but they didn't find out untill later. There were a lot of reasons we fell out and I wont go into them. Just to put it simply, moving back into my parents house would cause significantly more problems, not less, even if it were possible.

    Nah, Andrew Smith.
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    (Original post by Ham and Cheese)
    The study was in 1900; a great deal of it would be irrelevant for modern Britain. We have the NHS, free education, a flawed but fairly well developed welfare system; there will always be people in poverty and we will never be able to eliminate poverty unless we scrapped capitalism. However, we must do what we can, invest what resources we have in offering people practical and progressive aid. I feel that Robin Hood policies do not solve that but merely create an attitude where people look down on the poor rather than sympathise with them.
    As I said, in 1900 AND SUBSEQUENTLY. This means that there were further studies in 1936 and 1951. The 1951 study demonstrated that the welfare state instituted by the Labour Government - and largely undone by the *****-who-shall-not-be-named - had managed to break the problems of poverty that had been generally endemic in Britain over the course of the previous half century. This is why, in the 1960s, Britain had perhaps the most successful social democracy in the world but that generation pushed the ladder away in the 1970s and 1980s and their children have continued to push the ladder away for the rest of us. Not for the esses and gees do commentators talk of social inequality reaching Victorian levels.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Yes, there will be examples of people comming out of the working class and making it big. There will be cases of the other way as well. The worst part is that these cases are exceptions. By inheritence I don't simply mean money passed on, but resources as well. Being braught up in a middle class enviroment is so fundementaly different to a working class one. A child in a working class enviroment simply doesn't have the oppertunities that a middle class child does.

    I'm afraid I dissagree. We should tax the hell out of them. Why is his son entitled to a better life than someone who by chance was born into a poorer background? Why is he able to live in relative luxury because of 'daddys checkbook' while working class children have to start from the bottom rung (I'm guessing that the person you're talking about didn't start working as an ordinary worker, I'm guessing his position was given to him by his dad) he can enter from the top.

    Over the last decade, the poorest tenth of the population have, on average, seen a fall in their real incomes after deducting housing costs. In other words, after adjusting for inflation, their incomes are, on average, slightly lower than a decade ago. This is in sharp contrast with the rest of the income distribution, which, on average, has seen substantial rises in their real incomes. The richest tenth of the population have seen much bigger proportional rises in their incomes than any other group.

    The rich get richer, the poor get poorer...
    There are examples but it proves that it can be done. My Dad managed to do it when welfare was tight, he lived in the north-east and only lived with his Mum; if anything it should be easier now where we have more charities dedicated to helping the poor, a better NHS, a better education system and a more structured welfare system. I can't see it being greatly different; both use state schools, both use the NHS, both have a reasonable standard of living (not in poverty). I can only see small differences; location and frequency of holidays, quality of food etc.

    He's entitled to that money because the money belongs to his Dad; his Dad has worked hard to get that amount of wealth and if he wishes to invest it all into his son then he should have the freedom to do that. The only way you can change that is if you scrap capitalism. Yes we both think he's an arrogant ******* but we shouldn't penalise people for being wealthy; it only creates hostility when we discuss poverty. More people saying "look at all my taxes that go to the poor and what do they do with it? Spend it on booze or drugs."

    That's capitalism for you! There will always be winners and losers; as Government we should try and help those who have lost (with want of a better word) to capitalism and try to give them a better start. We should do this through better services and a more structured welfare system where its better off to be in work than on benefits.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    As I said, in 1900 AND SUBSEQUENTLY. This means that there were further studies in 1936 and 1951. The 1951 study demonstrated that the welfare state instituted by the Labour Government - and largely undone by the *****-who-shall-not-be-named - had managed to break the problems of poverty that had been generally endemic in Britain over the course of the previous half century. This is why, in the 1960s, Britain had perhaps the most successful social democracy in the world but that generation pushed the ladder away in the 1970s and 1980s and their children have continued to push the ladder away for the rest of us. Not for the esses and gees do commentators talk of social inequality reaching Victorian levels.
    Actually, at the end of Thatcher's reign as Prime Minister, all levels of income were higher than when she entered in 1979. In addition, there are reports which also suggest that the income divide was bigger under the Labour Government (1997-2010) than under Thatcher. I accept that you are referring to the Labour Government before Thatcher rather than post Thatcher but you have to accept that the Labour Government had far more money to spend, which is why they were able to construct so many houses.
 
 
 
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