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    (Original post by paddy__power)
    I'm for whatever is proven to cause the least amount of pain (without denying me meat ). I couldn't care less if something is halal or not though tbh.
    Yeah I really don't understand people who complain if meat is halal. Generally it's because they're racist idiots but I'm sure there are actual reasons.

    Also I really don't care about animal welfare. We should be aiming for the most humane/least painful ways to kill them and we should be using as much of the animal as possible.
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Yeah I really don't understand people who complain if meat is halal. Generally it's because they're racist idiots but I'm sure there are actual reasons.
    There are two reasons for being generally annoyed at the imposition of halal in place of traditional butchery and the animal welfare question. There is no doubt that slicing open a fully-conscious animal's throat so that it bleeds out is inhumane. More significantly, however, is the imposition of halal meat throughout British restaurants, university catering, schools, hospitals, and in fast-food joints without a) ever consulting with the people who eat it on a daily basis or b) considering the impact of halal butchery (well slaughter as there is a craft in butchery and this is an evil practice at best) on traditional practices here in Britain. There is no justification in the world for agreeing to a style of ritual killing which will end up driving British butchers out of business because out of some god-forsaken principle of "political correctness" we have had imposed on us halal meat.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    There are two reasons for being generally annoyed at the imposition of halal in place of traditional butchery and the animal welfare question. There is no doubt that slicing open a fully-conscious animal's throat so that it bleeds out is inhumane. More significantly, however, is the imposition of halal meat throughout British restaurants, university catering, schools, hospitals, and in fast-food joints without a) ever consulting with the people who eat it on a daily basis or b) considering the impact of halal butchery (well slaughter as there is a craft in butchery and this is an evil practice at best) on traditional practices here in Britain. There is no justification in the world for agreeing to a style of ritual killing which will end up driving British butchers out of business because out of some god-forsaken principle of "political correctness" we have had imposed on us halal meat.
    Yeah doesn't halal leave the spinal chord in tact or something?
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Yeah doesn't halal leave the spinal chord in tact or something?
    As I said, the animal is fully conscious of the fact they are about to die.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    As I said, the animal is fully conscious of the fact they are about to die.
    Right. Now, personally, this does not bother me in the slightest in terms of whether I would eat it or not. The animal has been killed, prepared and served to me. I'll eat that, otherwise it's a wasted life anyway.

    However, I can see why many people would get upset by this.
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    Also it turns out that putting a little orange juice in with the peas as they are slowly prepared is a very good idea.
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Right. Now, personally, this does not bother me in the slightest in terms of whether I would eat it or not. The animal has been killed, prepared and served to me. I'll eat that, otherwise it's a wasted life anyway.

    However, I can see why many people would get upset by this.
    Well the more you consider whether ritual slaughter by slitting an animal's throat so that it bleeds out onto the floor is the right way of providing meat for your table compared to the methods otherwise used in the UK (and elsewhere) which involve stunning the animal such that it cannot feel the pain of death, the more it becomes obvious that the latter is more humane and just to the animal.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Well the more you consider whether ritual slaughter by slitting an animal's throat so that it bleeds out onto the floor is the right way of providing meat for your table compared to the methods otherwise used in the UK (and elsewhere) which involve stunning the animal such that it cannot feel the pain of death, the more it becomes obvious that the latter is more humane and just to the animal.
    I'm sure. However I doubt that all meat slaughtered in a non halal way is done in a particularly humane way to be honest.

    Also I think it's interesting that you use the word 'just' when talking about an animal. Not sure if I would ever think to.
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    When you sign that entitlement declaration and send it off, do you get contacted back to tell you that they have received it?
    (student finance)

    Is there a way to find out other than phoning them up?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    When you sign that entitlement declaration and send it off, do you get contacted back to tell you that they have received it?
    (student finance)

    Is there a way to find out other than phoning them up?
    Nope, just wait and keep checking the SFE tracking site.
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    (Original post by OrangeStu)
    Nope, just wait and keep checking the SFE tracking site.
    Tracking site?
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    I'm sure. However I doubt that all meat slaughtered in a non halal way is done in a particularly humane way to be honest.
    Perhaps not, but that is where the second part of my initial answer to you kicks in. Do I favour practices which keep butchers in the UK in business whilst employing the most humane practices possible under the circumstances of mass production compared to the ritualised slaughter of animals... well the answer is almost certainly the former. I would certainly favour a ban on halal slaughter being introduced in the UK and am generally blind to the religious implications of it.

    Also I think it's interesting that you use the word 'just' when talking about an animal. Not sure if I would ever think to.
    Animals have rights just as human beings do albeit relative to their needs: there is no purpose or sense in imposing rights such as the right to an education or free universal healthcare (though may be more sense in the latter) for all animals. However I do think animals have a right to a good standard and quality of living even despite the implications of their lives which are that, for the most part, they are produce for human consumption.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Perhaps not, but that is where the second part of my initial answer to you kicks in. Do I favour practices which keep butchers in the UK in business whilst employing the most humane practices possible under the circumstances of mass production compared to the ritualised slaughter of animals... well the answer is almost certainly the former. I would certainly favour a ban on halal slaughter being introduced in the UK and am generally blind to the religious implications of it.



    Animals have rights just as human beings do albeit relative to their needs: there is no purpose or sense in imposing rights such as the right to an education or free universal healthcare (though may be more sense in the latter) for all animals. However I do think animals have a right to a good standard and quality of living even despite the implications of their lives which are that, for the most part, they are produce for human consumption.
    You have already rated a post by this user recently!
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    In fact since this is a model HoC and we can legislate for such things. I shall write a bill doing precisely that.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Tracking site?
    Just where you make you application - the status of your application will change from time to time.
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    (Original post by OrangeStu)
    Just where you make you application - the status of your application will change from time to time.
    It says I am entitled to everything I asked for - I just don't know if they received my signed declaration. It's the very last thing they ask for, once they have sent you the breakdown of what they will get.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    You have already rated a post by this user recently!
    Banning religious slaughter would be remarkably easy to do, if you fancy a joint bill. According to the 1995 Welfare of Animals (Slaughter or Killing) Regulations Act, the provisions for religious killing of animals are all contained within one schedule - namely schedule 12.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...hedule/12/made

    Were this to be abolished then religious slaughter of animals would be required to meet with regulations for other forms of butchery - namely the pre-killing stunning of the animal.

    I suggest that is what we do.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    When you sign that entitlement declaration and send it off, do you get contacted back to tell you that they have received it?
    (student finance)

    Is there a way to find out other than phoning them up?
    It will update. Currently your online application will say "you have been sent a declaration..." and that will change.
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    I would prefer that slaughterhouses in the UK adopted controlled atmosphere killing, as opposed to stunning and bleeding. It seems to be much more effective and humane IMO.
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    Well I think this safely sums up the Transformers 3 experience:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermo...f_the_moo.html
 
 
 
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