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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Why does anything have to compare? If you're bothered by the individual bits of what happened during that period you could read Figes' Natasha's Dance, Zamoyski's 1812, a variety of works on the cultural influences of France on the aristocracies of continental Europe in the late-eighteenth and early nineteenth century, and so on. There's masses of corroborative evidence as to what Tolstoy was writing about but the discussions between the Rostovs and the other families in the novel are fictionalised accounts of what might have been said by someone of that ilk. Your cynicism is baffling.
    If you knew me, you would not think my cynicism is baffling

    I'll look at the others
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    I don't get the dispute over historical fiction. Imo it's one of the best ways to get non historically inclined people to engage in the past and actually learn about it, so long as there's nothing ridiculously ahistorical and the general vibe and events of the era are covered it's great imo. The Flashman novels are great for this, hilariously ridiculous in their plots and characters, there's a hell of a lot of historical research that went into them and the way the author footnotes stuff with actual historical commentary is very helpful. I'd point any layman to Flashman if they really wanted a feel of the 19th century in it's pomp, while advising them that it is fiction.

    Also Zamoyski is excellent for a popular historian. He needs to write something new already, 1812 and Rites of Peace were great reads.
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    (Original post by ajp100688)
    Also Zamoyski is excellent for a popular historian. He needs to write something new already, 1812 and Rites of Peace were great reads.
    He is - and so is Figes to a large extent - but for that particular set of events it's the most accessible.
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    This thread is pissing me off. Not so much as in she's lucky enough to get that sort of car, but her attitude throughout the thread stinks of unappreciative rich girl.
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14180043
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    (Original post by davidmarsh01)
    This thread is pissing me off. Not so much as in she's lucky enough to get that sort of car, but her attitude throughout the thread stinks of unappreciative rich girl.
    That car is ****e, I'd sooner buy 106

    Anyone know if it is worth trying to go for a poker room in London or should I stick to online poker when I go to uni? anyone play poker?
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    lol, he says he still has integrity but he resigned? pull the other one...

    the met is deep in this story, taking bribes and hospitality, failing to investigate...

    so the journo's are biting the dust, the coppers are falling, when will the politico's join em in the dump?
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    (Original post by SciFiBoy)
    lol, he says he still has integrity but he resigned? pull the other one...

    the met is deep in this story, taking bribes and hospitality, failing to investigate...

    so the journo's are biting the dust, the coppers are falling, when will the politico's join em in the dump?
    He probably shouldn't be the only police officer to resign. Sadly he will most likely take the can but there's a few things:

    BoJo was head of the Met until very recently.
    Cameron & Osborne are clearly tainted by this up to their eyeballs.

    Someone in the political realm should take the can too and that can only be Cameron.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    He probably shouldn't be the only police officer to resign. Sadly he will most likely take the can but there's a few things:

    BoJo was head of the Met until very recently.
    Cameron & Osborne are clearly tainted by this up to their eyeballs.

    Someone in the political realm should take the can too and that can only be Cameron.
    You think C should resign?
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    He probably shouldn't be the only police officer to resign. Sadly he will most likely take the can but there's a few things:

    BoJo was head of the Met until very recently.
    Cameron & Osborne are clearly tainted by this up to their eyeballs.

    Someone in the political realm should take the can too and that can only be Cameron.
    I will settle for Cameron and BoJo going, im assuming if Cameron goes there will also be an election, doubt people will take another change of PM without one, specially after the Brown saga.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    You think C should resign?
    In the long run, if anything comes out about Coulson then yes, yes he should.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    In the long run, if anything comes out about Coulson then yes, yes he should.
    My two worries would be, who will take over and how screwed the country will be if the government falls
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    My two worries would be, who will take over and how screwed the country will be if the government falls
    In the immediate term, the person who takes over would be Nick Clegg since he is the deputy prime minister. He would probably have to call an election since he cannot be said to command the confidence of the House in that circumstance. The Tories would have to choose a new leader and it's possible we end up with a new coalition government but a Lib-Lab one. If Cameron is found to be complicit by proxy in his employment of Coulson then the Tories would be seriously compromised.
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    Cameron is already tainted, he is far too close with Coulson and Brooks, he appointed Coulson despite warnings and knowing about the hacking issue and on top of all this he has been dragging his feet on the issue now, he took far too long to set up an inquiry then started suggesting nothing could happen for years because of the met investigation which almost everyone immediatley said was bs.

    frankly anyone with any respect for the public should step down and allow somoene un-tainted to make the changes needed and see through the inquiries and investigations.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    In the immediate term, the person who takes over would be Nick Clegg since he is the deputy prime minister. He would probably have to call an election since he cannot be said to command the confidence of the House in that circumstance. The Tories would have to choose a new leader and it's possible we end up with a new coalition government but a Lib-Lab one. If Cameron is found to be complicit by proxy in his employment of Coulson then the Tories would be seriously compromised.
    I don't think Labour is anywhere near ready for power though.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I don't think Labour is anywhere near ready for power though.
    Well, they have a lot of ex ministers and cabinet ministers if needs be. But you're right, Labour need a bit more time to work out what they intend doing. But the moment might well be such that the Conservatives are shown to be incredibly dodgy at the highest levels and the situation requires Labour to be ready in the national interest.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    Well, they have a lot of ex ministers and cabinet ministers if needs be. But you're right, Labour need a bit more time to work out what they intend doing. But the moment might well be such that the Conservatives are shown to be incredibly dodgy at the highest levels and the situation requires Labour to be ready in the national interest.
    There is a depressing thought. I wonder how the public would react to another election. And who would take Cameron's place, perhaps Osborne though I am not sure if he is also tainted by this.

    Are you a rl Labour supporter?
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    There is a depressing thought. I wonder how the public would react to another election. And who would take Cameron's place, perhaps Osborne though I am not sure if he is also tainted by this.

    Are you a rl Labour supporter?
    More than merely a supporter, I'm an active member of the Party. Osborne was the one who pressed Cameron to employ Coulson. Osborne is riddled with taint. The likely candidate is David Davis. The country will wreak havoc on the Tories if this does come to an election.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    More than merely a supporter, I'm an active member of the Party. Osborne was the one who pressed Cameron to employ Coulson. Osborne is riddled with taint. The likely candidate is David Davis. The country will wreak havoc on the Tories if this does come to an election.
    Labour would have to play its cards very very well to make proper gains though. I can only speak for the odd poll and what I see in the media, which given recent events is hardly a great indicator but I can't see Miliband commanding huge support across the country.
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    (Original post by Adorno)
    More than merely a supporter, I'm an active member of the Party. Osborne was the one who pressed Cameron to employ Coulson. Osborne is riddled with taint. The likely candidate is David Davis. The country will wreak havoc on the Tories if this does come to an election.
    I thought you resigned?
 
 
 
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