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Now I realise how sacred the NHS is to us watch

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    There is no point in trying to look at other countries an adopting their systems or even comparing the role of the private sector in healthcare in other countries. Why? Because change is as much about where you are going from as where you are going to and Britain, like every other country, is a unique environment.

    The simple fact is that private companies' involvement in healthcare in the UK has largely been a failure, the creation of PFI, private treatment centres, increased sub-contracting, etc. has done nothing to speed up improval rates and has reduced efficiency. PFI for example was done largely on a completely ridiculous financial basis. Private companies are receiving much higher internal rates of return than the government would have had to pay on the open market, so much so that the additional costs massively outweigh the savings made by the government not having in-house capability.

    What is the reason for this? A failed procurement strategy led by people who lack competency. The proposed reforms suggest placing procurement responsibilty in the hands of GPs who also have neither the strategy or competency to procure on such a large scale either. Reforms would have been much better focussed on changing NHS procurement strategy as part of wider reforms of government procurement.

    The most ridiculous thing about it is that the government itself has authored widely respected guidance on procurement strategy and project management (things such as PRINCE2) but doesn't appear to practice what it preaches!
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    The NHS needs to be destroyed.
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    The NHS sucks up taxpayers harded earned money. It should be scraped and I would be like good riddance.
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    I don't understand where people get this idea that private = better. Look at what happened when they privatised the trains, for goodness' sake. According to the World Health Organisation the best healthcare system in the world is in France (not privatised), followed by Italy (also not privatised).

    No one is going to deny that the NHS needs improving, but privatisation is not the way to improve it. I don't believe that simply throwing money at the problem is, either.
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    (Original post by Lassilsa)
    No it's not free you goons; my parents are robbed to pay for it.
    So if either of your parents got injured seriously, would you prefer to be settled with a huge bill at the end of their treatment or pay fir it gradually via taxes? Because not many people expect to be in need of expensive treatments, but life is full of surprises
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    (Original post by LadyRowena)
    I don't understand where people get this idea that private = better. Look at what happened when they privatised the trains, for goodness' sake. According to the World Health Organisation the best healthcare system in the world is in France (not privatised), followed by Italy (also not privatised).

    No one is going to deny that the NHS needs improving, but privatisation is not the way to improve it. I don't believe that simply throwing money at the problem is, either.
    The trains are not completely privatised. There are significant restrictions on the amount of profit that can be made.

    Anyway, let's assume they were. The other option is that you have a train system that is a huge drain to the taxpayer. They will never make it public again.
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    (Original post by lozzyhickers)
    Have you ever been to a foreign hospital?
    Why no I haven' I just said what I said as I hadn't been to hospitals abroad, no personal experience at all... :rolleyes:

    Yes I have, been to several, I stick by what I said.
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    (Original post by Hey TSR)
    The Con-Dem plans for reform to the NHS demonstrate how big a crown-jewel the NHS is to the British people and something that cannot be touched.

    Margaret Thatcher learnt the hard way in the 1980s; now David Cameron is.

    The NHS, untouchable.

    Discuss.
    However it is very inefficient, and requires large sums of money to do the cheapest of tasks. Because there is no alternative, the government is forced to pay it.

    There has to be a way that Game Theory Strategists can come up with to increase efficiency in a way to prevent people loosing out on free healthcare.
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    (Original post by Lassilsa)
    The NHS is the worst healthcare system in the western world. Our cancer survival rates are abysmal compared to the US.
    I wonder how great the US statistics would seem if the amount of people who die because they don't get the treatment that they needed were factored in.
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    (Original post by LadyRowena)
    I don't understand where people get this idea that private = better. Look at what happened when they privatised the trains, for goodness' sake. According to the World Health Organisation the best healthcare system in the world is in France (not privatised), followed by Italy (also not privatised).
    I agree with your point overall but I'm not a fan of french healthcare personally (I recognise anecdotal evidence is not relevant to overall statistics), I was left in a hallway in a wheelchair for 3 hours after I cut my leg open to the bone from ankle to a few inches short of my knee, they then rushed the stitches so that they started to come apart after a few days and I had to have further work done on my leg upon return to the UK, as it is I'm left with an unsightly scar and I was told if it had been done correctly I would have been left with only a thin line. The NHS however, did the best that they could and the scar is only half the size it would have been
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    The slightly ironic thing about the "free" NHS is that if you are an average American paying your health insurance you may well be paying less than the average British tax payer's contribution to healthcare. Private medicine: the majority of people pay their insurance and get the best healthcare in the world. Socialized medicine: everyone, regardless of their contribution, gets the same mediocre care.
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    (Original post by Lassilsa)
    The NHS is the worst healthcare system in the western world. Our cancer survival rates are abysmal compared to the US.
    This is true

    Not compared to the USA, but compared to places like Poland where they don't spend nearly as much as we do on healthcare, but at the first sign of anything that could be cancer related, they pass you straight off to a specialist
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    (Original post by moonkatt)
    we do use bleach.
    the management needs to be cut down massively, and I know this isn't true of all Public sector workers, but most people don't seem to understand who pays their wages! Its not the money fairy, its the tax payer!, and that's why people have a right to be annoyed! Oh, and a broken fingernail does not warrant 3 weeks off sick!
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    (Original post by Moleman1996)
    the management needs to be cut down massively, and I know this isn't true of all Public sector workers, but most people don't seem to understand who pays their wages! Its not the money fairy, its the tax payer!, and that's why people have a right to be annoyed! Oh, and a broken fingernail does not warrant 3 weeks off sick!
    And what precisely does that have to do with me debunking the myth that bleach is not used in hospitals? I see youre letting the tabloids influence what you think of the NHS. Three weeks off sick for a broken nail? Where have you heard this, if its true how about you share youre excellent source of information with us. Or is it all hearsay? Sickness policy for NHS staff is pretty strict, and considering we're constantly exposed to infection, I've seen staff work when they should be in bed at home because for them to take time off sick would lead to a disciplinary.
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    (Original post by TulipFields)
    So if either of your parents got injured seriously, would you prefer to be settled with a huge bill at the end of their treatment or pay fir it gradually via taxes? Because not many people expect to be in need of expensive treatments, but life is full of surprises
    ye full of suprises, like when you realise how bad the NHS is, when you look at how much you're paying! "Most we've ever paid, worst the service has ever been"
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    (Original post by moonkatt)
    And what precisely does that have to do with me debunking the myth that bleach is not used in hospitals? I see youre letting the tabloids influence what you think of the NHS. Three weeks off sick for a broken nail? Where have you heard this, if its true how about you share youre excellent source of information with us. Or is it all hearsay? Sickness policy for NHS staff is pretty strict, and considering we're constantly exposed to infection, I've seen staff work when they should be in bed at home because for them to take time off sick would lead to a disciplinary.
    pretty strict? They add it to their holidays! And no im not, I have an IQ of above 20 so i don't read tabloids. My aunty is nurse, and has been for over 20 years. She knows someone who came back after "depression" for three days, stayed two weeks, and was off again.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    stuff
    Just out of interest would you describe yourself as a neoliberal?
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    (Original post by Moleman1996)
    pretty strict? They add it to their holidays! And no im not, I have an IQ of above 20 so i don't read tabloids. My aunty is nurse, and has been for over 20 years. She knows someone who came back after "depression" for three days, stayed two weeks, and was off again.
    Oh dear, you have been getting your information from tabliods. We are not given a quota of time we can have off sick, its complete *******s. So what if someone went back for two weeks and then went off sick again. Have you ever suffered from mental illness? Are you a psychologst? Just because someone doesn't have a visible illness does not mean they are not sick. Your aunt might be able to explain that one to you.
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    (Original post by Lassilsa)
    The NHS is the worst healthcare system in the western world. Our cancer survival rates are abysmal compared to the US.
    why the **** are people negging Lassilsa? those idiots don't understand the effects of cancer clearly, it is easy to judge through lack of NHS experience

    I've had two member of my extended family and family friends die from cancer because the NHS are so stingy that they decide to leave the most vital tests such as biopsies until stage 4 of cancer, they have all passed away and unnecessarily, my cousin brother complained of stomach pain for months and lost so much weight, they gave him pills and kept delaying it and weren't confronting it at all, they left it until he had one month left to live when he was finally diagnosed.

    the nhs disgust me for their cancer treatment, however they did save my dad's life after he had a minor heart attack at 3am (but in emergency room, he was left unattended for 9 hours as they were so understaffed and the nurse had misreported that he already had a blood test and had been seen to, he didn't get transferred to a proper ward until a day later, but he had a successful quadruple heart bypass within a month and i thank the surgeons for that

    so i guess short term response they are better, long term problems like cancer they truly are awful.
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    to all those who say go private, my parents would go private if they didn't have to pay the taxes for nhs ASWELL.
 
 
 
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