Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bosty)
    I think international students suffer an insane amount of debt O.o
    They do, but they also have the flexibility to go somewhere else if they aren't happy with the quality of the education provided for the fees.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm an International student, and there are many like myself who choose to study overseas because there aren't many places locally. And just because of our passion, we incur this crazy amount of debt. Sometimes i just wished it was cheaper haha.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maxpemberton)
    Hello, wondering if anyone here might be able to help.
    I'm writing a feature for the Daily Telegraph looking at medical student debt and examining how the new legislation regarding increased tuition fees might impact on people deciding to do medical degrees, the types of people that will be put off, later career choices within medicine etc.
    I'd love to hear from any students that are thinking of applying to medical school and are worried about how they will pay their fees or are questioing if they are going to apply because of future debt. Also, anyone who has given up a course in medicine because of debt or facing problems because of debt?
    Thanks so much.
    Max
    Like Winter_mute, as a prospective grad applicant, if the NHS bursaries are pulled or stay as they are so the student is left to fill the gap on fee costs (NHS currently pays the 2nd to 4th years fees at £3300 odd) I won't be re-applying.

    If bursaries are scrapped completely, that leaves GEP Medics with fees of £36K to pay before they even think about living costs. Plus only a couple of banks are prepared to offer loans to students (not something I'd personally do because the interest rates are sky high).

    Before the fees hike came in I was all for re-applying, not anymore. Furthermore, the risk of not being allocated an FY1 place brings even more worry to prospective applicants. I really wouldn't want £60K of debt, plus my first undergrad debt without a foundation place to go into.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Speaking as prospective graduate applicant, I will not be applying if the NHS bursary for GEM courses is withdrawn. While I would describe my background as middle class (my father is a teacher and my mother a school cook), without assistance the cost of tuition fees alone would be far beyond the means of myself or my parents.

    Although my personal loss in such an event would clearly mean a great deal to me, my opposition to the cutting of NHS bursaries is also drawn from my belief that this could only lead to the impoverishment of medicine as a profession. Graduate entry medicine has widened opportunities for those from non traditional backgrounds (i.e. state schools) to become doctors, contributes to creating a more diverse workforce, and produces doctors who are a little older, and perhaps, a little more considered in their choice of career than their school-leaving colleagues. While I do not have any access to figures, I suspect that graduate medics are less likely to drop out and more likely to stick with the NHS post registration than school leavers.

    There are some key questions that we need to ask ourselves when we discuss the withdrawal of subsidies for medicine courses, offering as they do some limited protection from the huge increase in tuition fees. Do we really want to make medicine the preserve of the wealthy? Are we sure that we want our doctors to be drawn almost entirely from a single, small sector of society whose life experience is, to put it lightly, rather remote from that of their £16,000 a year earning patients?

    What I believe to be the most compelling argument in favour of continuing with NHS bursaries (and the GEM courses which would be much reduced without them), is that they allow individuals from lower middle and working class families to compete for places, both at med school and F1/F2 level, with the more privileged. To deny these individuals this opportunity would to my mind be to lower the standard of competition, and therefore the standard of the UKs doctors.

    *I use this figure as an approximate mean average income, post tax.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I was going to apply for A100 and A101, being a graduate student. BUT UCL (which I was quite interested in) will charge £9000 for each year of undergraduate study from 2012 onwards. Since it only offer A100, I decided to put a cross on UCL . Also, I think medicine is becoming a field reserved for the wealthy few graduates who can afford to pay thousands of pounds. I guess I will just stop obsessing about it and start thinking of a new career!
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by itzme)
    I was going to apply for A100 and A101, being a graduate student. BUT UCL (which I was quite interested in) will charge £9000 for each year of undergraduate study from 2012 onwards. Since it only offer A100, I decided to put a cross on UCL . Also, I think medicine is becoming a field reserved for the wealthy few graduates who can afford to pay thousands of pounds. I guess I will just stop obsessing about it and start thinking of a new career!
    I'll be very interested to see the application stats for 2012 entry given that very few graduates will have easy access to the money needed. Those who want to take out bank loans are very very brave...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by apotoftea)
    I'll be very interested to see the application stats for 2012 entry given that very few graduates will have easy access to the money needed. Those who want to take out bank loans are very very brave...
    I know! What are your options if you decide not to do graduate medicine? I am studying history and I do not really see myself doing a postgrad qualification in history. I guess, I will just apply for graduate jobs.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Most applicants won't be stepping away from studying medicine due to the horrendous amount of debt they will have to pay back later on in life, although many may consider moving to universities further away from London to reduce maintenance costs - every little helps.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thegodofgod)
    Most applicants won't be stepping away from studying medicine due to the horrendous amount of debt they will have to pay back later on in life, although many may consider moving to universities further away from London to reduce maintenance costs - every little helps.
    I think most will work to save up enough money.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    My family has a very low income, so I suppose I'd be the kind of person you'd expect to be put off medical school - purely because I know what it is like to have not much money, and because my parents wouldn't ever be able to afford to pay of any of my student debts.

    I'm in year 12 now, so the tuition fee increase will affect me.

    However, I've known I want to study medicine since I was 14 years old. Fees are paid back when you earn money.
    Although I know I will be in debt for many many years, I think it's worth it if I get to do the job I have always dreamed of, so no, it doesn't put me off.

    That isn't to say I agree with it though. Because I don't.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by foldingstars45)
    My family has a very low income, so I suppose I'd be the kind of person you'd expect to be put off medical school - purely because I know what it is like to have not much money, and because my parents wouldn't ever be able to afford to pay of any of my student debts.

    I'm in year 12 now, so the tuition fee increase will affect me.

    However, I've known I want to study medicine since I was 14 years old. Fees are paid back when you earn money.
    Although I know I will be in debt for many many years, I think it's worth it if I get to do the job I have always dreamed of, so no, it doesn't put me off.

    That isn't to say I agree with it though. Because I don't.
    This.
    Minus the low income and knowing since 14. I thought about it through GCSE (Years 10 and 11) and decided during the last year of GCSE pretty much.

    If you're not a graduate then I think most university have a maximum £3000 annual fee waiver/ bursary type thing if you really are very poor. That still leaves a situation where the poorest pay £6000 a year (I think your family have to earn less than £15,000 a year to qualify) but it is something :|. There are additional bursaries in place if you meet certain requirements.

    Not a great situation for graduates though... I feel bad for them T_T
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by maxpemberton)
    Hello, wondering if anyone here might be able to help.
    I'm writing a feature for the Daily Telegraph looking at medical student debt and examining how the new legislation regarding increased tuition fees might impact on people deciding to do medical degrees, the types of people that will be put off, later career choices within medicine etc.
    I'd love to hear from any students that are thinking of applying to medical school and are worried about how they will pay their fees or are questioing if they are going to apply because of future debt. Also, anyone who has given up a course in medicine because of debt or facing problems because of debt?
    Thanks so much.
    Max
    What horrifies me is that medical students often get their fees paid for them, despite the fact that they then go on to earn far more than most. If I had my way, medical students would pay the cost of their degrees, no subsidies. Usually, subsidies are there to induce people to do things they may not otherwise do, but medicine is grossly oversubscribed anyway that it wouldn't make a difference.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    For medicine, I think it will make it less accessible for the types of students that schools have been claiming to be seeking out (underrepresented people, people that took access courses after having other careers etc).

    When it costs 9000+ pounds a year you will be seeing an even worse skew towards students whose parents have ingrained in them that a doctor is what they should become.

    in the UK you often go to medical school when you're 18, at that age the vast majority of your opinions are not genuinely your own as much as you might think they are. they're mostly the result of the school your parents sent you to, and the situation you grew up in.

    medicine is so oversubscribed it will likely never be noticed statistically, except maybe in mature applicants who already have some responsibilities and medicine may be too much of a burden in the face of those.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Planar)
    What horrifies me is that medical students often get their fees paid for them, despite the fact that they then go on to earn far more than most. If I had my way, medical students would pay the cost of their degrees, no subsidies. Usually, subsidies are there to induce people to do things they may not otherwise do, but medicine is grossly oversubscribed anyway that it wouldn't make a difference.
    Yeah, screw socially mobility and all that. Why does what they earn at the end matter? Are you saying people should only be subsidised for their degrees if their earning potential at the end of the degree is low? That just seems counter intuitive and spiteful. Going to university has a lot of cost attached to it, and while tuition fees aren't paid back until you start earning, reducing them must help ease the financial burden for the less privileged. I don't see how over subscription to a course is an excuse for narrowing access to that course on a financial basis.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davidragon)
    Yeah, screw socially mobility and all that.
    High fees do not deter any students. An ability to pay back the debt of fees is what deters them. Medicine doesn't have that problem.

    Why does what they earn at the end matter? Are you saying people should only be subsidised for their degrees if their earning potential at the end of the degree is low? That just seems counter intuitive and spiteful.
    What they earn at the end matters because doctors can afford to pay back huge fees, which is why the course shouldn't be subsidised.

    Going to university has a lot of cost attached to it, and while tuition fees aren't paid back until you start earning, reducing them must help ease the financial burden for the less privileged. I don't see how over subscription to a course is an excuse for narrowing access to that course on a financial basis.
    Actually, by the time they're paying back the fees, they're on £21k a year, thus they are not "less privileged".
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Planar)
    High fees do not deter any students. An ability to pay back the debt of fees is what deters them. Medicine doesn't have that problem.



    What they earn at the end matters because doctors can afford to pay back huge fees, which is why the course shouldn't be subsidised.



    Actually, by the time they're paying back the fees, they're on £21k a year, thus they are not "less privileged".
    Higher fees deter plenty of students if they do not understand the system as many do not. I agree, they shouldn't, but they do.

    Also, the entire argument does not apply for graduates, who are the main gainers from subsidies and who will struggle with the absence of a loan system as generous as the one for undergraduates. Undergraduates only get year 5 (and 6) paid for, and I'm fairly sure this is to do with the extra cost incurred during 'clinicals'. =|

    Also, asking medical students to pay more for earning more is surely something already covered by the fun new tuition fees and income tax. Graduate entry peeps still need Bursaries.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    I am so, so lucky to have received an offer for Graduate Entry Medicine this year. I come from a very low income background, and thankfully my family are going to be able to scrape together the £3,300 for the first year of tuition fees. But with the tuition fee increases, if I hadn't got in this year then that would have been my dream over. It's absolutely gutting for those who weren't as lucky as I was.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davidragon)
    Higher fees deter plenty of students if they do not understand the system as many do not. I agree, they shouldn't, but they do.
    That may be true, but it's their own fault for not doing the research.

    Also, the entire argument does not apply for graduates, who are the main gainers from subsidies and who will struggle with the absence of a loan system as generous as the one for undergraduates. Undergraduates only get year 5 (and 6) paid for, and I'm fairly sure this is to do with the extra cost incurred during 'clinicals'. =|
    Is there really no bank which will lend graduate medical students the money? Seems like a great way to make money right there, I'm sure at least one bank is offering them. And this is not like doing some obscure masters' degree, this has a more or less guaranteed well-paid job at the end of it.

    Also, asking medical students to pay more for earning more is surely something already covered by the fun new tuition fees and income tax. Graduate entry peeps still need Bursaries.
    The new fees go some way towards redressing the balance, but bear in mind it's getting to the point where arts students will be subsidising scientists and doctors, who will probably go on to earn more. That strikes me as completely unfair, and an overhaul is needed.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Planar)
    Is there really no bank which will lend graduate medical students the money? Seems like a great way to make money right there, I'm sure at least one bank is offering them. And this is not like doing some obscure masters' degree, this has a more or less guaranteed well-paid job at the end of it.
    I think there are two available but don't come close to covering the full amount. They also have shocking interest rates and in the case of the CDLs are only valid for a year, so once the year is up, you MUST start paying them back.

    Also, no foundation place is guaranteed anymore.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Planar)
    That may be true, but it's their own fault for not doing the research.



    Is there really no bank which will lend graduate medical students the money? Seems like a great way to make money right there, I'm sure at least one bank is offering them. And this is not like doing some obscure masters' degree, this has a more or less guaranteed well-paid job at the end of it.



    The new fees go some way towards redressing the balance, but bear in mind it's getting to the point where arts students will be subsidising scientists and doctors, who will probably go on to earn more. That strikes me as completely unfair, and an overhaul is needed.
    There are plenty of banks which would be willing I'm sure. The only thing is, I'm sure the terms would be far less fair: repayment would probably not be based on earning and interest rates would be likely to be high. Graduates will have no other option if the bursaries are scrapped so I would not expect the banks to be benevolent in this respect.

    I really like you last point though, and it is something I know about but didn't consider in relation to this.

    Arts is odd. I don't know if it is true to say they will all earn less. PPE graduates (If you accept that is an arts subject) can earn a lot in the Political sphere. Lawyers arguably have equal if not greater earning potential than doctors. There are obviously the English Literature graduates who go on to be famous authors, Linguists become translators and can work in a variety of areas etc.

    Of course some will become teachers, some go into unrelated graduate careers and many will earn less than a doctor.

    However, an arts course isn't a sure thing. A lot may earn less but a small number will earn more than a doctor would ever dream of earning. It isn't as easy to treat arts students as bulk as it is meds because of the ambiguous prospects on an arts degree.

    I do agree with you on a fundamental level in that I believe there should be greater financial assistance for all sorts of students. However, with Arts this is less possible as it not public service based. The NHS paying a medical students tuition fees is an investment in maintaining a diverse and competent national health service. It is more difficult to do for Arts students as their career path isn't clear cut and predictable.

    The NHS will pay to train workers because it needs to attract all potential, not just the people who can afford it (not just talking about doctors here). It makes sense since all taxpayers pay for the NHS, not just the rich. The flipside of this is that bursaries will have to bleed into the university system for some courses, causing 'unfair' assistance when compared to other students.

    I'm not sure about singling out NHS bursaries for doctors since the idea of bursaries is part of a much wider thing and it may alienate med students, but to remove bursaries all together (for all courses) would do more harm than good to the NHS in my opinion.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: April 23, 2011
The home of Results and Clearing

2,696

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year

University open days

  1. Sheffield Hallam University
    City Campus Undergraduate
    Tue, 21 Aug '18
  2. Bournemouth University
    Clearing Open Day Undergraduate
    Wed, 22 Aug '18
  3. University of Buckingham
    Postgraduate Open Evening Postgraduate
    Thu, 23 Aug '18
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.