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    I'm definitely applying to medical school but now my problem isn't choosing which university will be best for me, it's choosing a university I can afford.

    Americans pay hefty fees for university but the parents start saving when the child is born so there is nothing to be paid back after university, no loans. I'm now faced with at least a £15000 loan to pay back after I've qualified, with nothing saved up previously.
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    There are plenty of banks which would be willing I'm sure. The only thing is, I'm sure the terms would be far less fair: repayment would probably not be based on earning and interest rates would be likely to be high. Graduates will have no other option if the bursaries are scrapped so I would not expect the banks to be benevolent in this respect.

    I really like you last point though, and it is something I know about but didn't consider in relation to this.

    Arts is odd. I don't know if it is true to say they will all earn less. PPE graduates (If you accept that is an arts subject) can earn a lot in the Political sphere. Lawyers arguably have equal if not greater earning potential than doctors. There are obviously the English Literature graduates who go on to be famous authors, Linguists become translators and can work in a variety of areas etc.

    Of course some will become teachers, some go into unrelated graduate careers and many will earn less than a doctor.

    However, an arts course isn't a sure thing. A lot may earn less but a small number will earn more than a doctor would ever dream of earning. It isn't as easy to treat arts students as bulk as it is meds because of the ambiguous prospects on an arts degree.

    I do agree with you on a fundamental level in that I believe there should be greater financial assistance for all sorts of students. However, with Arts this is less possible as it not public service based. The NHS paying a medical students tuition fees is an investment in maintaining a diverse and competent national health service. It is more difficult to do for Arts students as their career path isn't clear cut and predictable.

    The NHS will pay to train workers because it needs to attract all potential, not just the people who can afford it (not just talking about doctors here). It makes sense since all taxpayers pay for the NHS, not just the rich. The flipside of this is that bursaries will have to bleed into the university system for some courses, causing 'unfair' assistance when compared to other students.

    I'm not sure about singling out NHS bursaries for doctors since the idea of bursaries is part of a much wider thing and it may alienate med students, but to remove bursaries all together (for all courses) would do more harm than good to the NHS in my opinion.
    i am studying history and i dnt think i have good career prospects. plus postgrad in history is as competitive as medicine, if not more!
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    Think I'll have to start swinging round a pole in a club to afford this.



    Harsh. But true.
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    (Original post by Planar)
    The new fees go some way towards redressing the balance, but bear in mind it's getting to the point where arts students will be subsidising scientists and doctors, who will probably go on to earn more. That strikes me as completely unfair, and an overhaul is needed.
    Sorry, since when should students get government subsidies based on their own predicted future earnings, and not the nation's need for the subject in question? This might surprise you, but society has interests at stake beyond "how much money will Planar make if they spend three years doing philosophy/art history/whatever". No one is holding your face to the coals and forcing you to study a course with lower earning potential, if financial motivations are so important for you.
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    There are plenty of banks which would be willing I'm sure. The only thing is, I'm sure the terms would be far less fair: repayment would probably not be based on earning and interest rates would be likely to be high. Graduates will have no other option if the bursaries are scrapped so I would not expect the banks to be benevolent in this respect.
    Trust me, there are only two banks willing to lend money to graduate medic students. And as far as I know, the amount lend doesn't cover the full gap. The loans come under professional/career development. You can't just take out a normal loan to study at university.
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    (Original post by apotoftea)
    Trust me, there are only two banks willing to lend money to graduate medic students. And as far as I know, the amount lend doesn't cover the full gap. The loans come under professional/career development. You can't just take out a normal loan to study at university.
    That is quite interesting :O
    I would expect more banks to jump on the opportunity to exploit grad students. Sounds even more bleak tbh.
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    That is quite interesting :O
    I would expect more banks to jump on the opportunity to exploit grad students. Sounds even more bleak tbh.
    It is going the opposite way. Natwest have removed their professional studies loans for medical students since January. Other banks offer little or nothing at all.
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    (Original post by apotoftea)
    Trust me, there are only two banks willing to lend money to graduate medic students. And as far as I know, the amount lend doesn't cover the full gap. The loans come under professional/career development. You can't just take out a normal loan to study at university.
    Would you be able to let me know what these banks are? After doing some more detailed estimates I am seeing some fairly significant holes which need to be filled. I understand that they may not lend me that much, but every little could help.
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    That is quite interesting :O
    I would expect more banks to jump on the opportunity to exploit grad students. Sounds even more bleak tbh.
    It would be stupid for banks to give out loans for this. It's even more risky than sub-prime mortgages!
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    (Original post by winter_mute)
    It would be stupid for banks to give out loans for this. It's even more risky than sub-prime mortgages!
    Yeah, cus banks aren't well known for taking risks with loans or anything
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    (Original post by MusicNow)
    Would you be able to let me know what these banks are? After doing some more detailed estimates I am seeing some fairly significant holes which need to be filled. I understand that they may not lend me that much, but every little could help.
    I believe the Co-op's one, not sure on the other
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    Yeah, cus banks aren't well known for taking risks with loans or anything
    The sub-prime mortgages aren't inherently that bad, because they were secured against property (even if it was falling down, there's the value of the land itself). It was all the shadow banking and derivatives betting that went on.

    On the other hand, they could finance a loa of students, with no assurance that they'll finish one of the hardest degrees out there. To top it off they have no collateral if they default on their loans and many would just declare bankruptcy to dodge the loan.
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    (Original post by winter_mute)
    It would be stupid for banks to give out loans for this. It's even more risky than sub-prime mortgages!
    My impression was that banks were generally more willing to lend money to students studying medicine as they are likely to be employed and on an above average salary after graduation?

    But from reading these posts it sounds as though availability of such loans to med students has fallen.
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    (Original post by TooSexyForMyStethoscope)
    My point was that it would perhaps be more difficult than other, less time consuming courses

    And I have yet to meet a single person in 1st year who has a job Though not I suspect because they couldn't find the time....
    Really? It's not unusual. I know plenty of 1st years who have jobs.
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    (Original post by winter_mute)
    The sub-prime mortgages aren't inherently that bad, because they were secured against property (even if it was falling down, there's the value of the land itself). It was all the shadow banking and derivatives betting that went on.

    On the other hand, they could finance a loa of students, with no assurance that they'll finish one of the hardest degrees out there. To top it off they have no collateral if they default on their loans and many would just declare bankruptcy to dodge the loan.
    I'd tend to agree but given the amount of graduates that need this and the (apparent) security of job upon completion I would think it may be that they stand to gain more out it. Of course, my knowledge of economics probably isn't as good as yours but my ideas of supply and demand tend to make me thing more banks would jump on this. Wouldn't the banks just assess who they think is more likely to drop out?
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    (Original post by RP Lover)
    Really? It's not unusual. I know plenty of 1st years who have jobs.
    Unusual here anyway :P Then again I'm only basing it on my friends, 20 people isn't really a good cross section
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    This is all really interesting, thank you all so much for taking the time to post. My deadline has been slightly delayed due to the royal wedding but will be back to writing this piece next week. If it's ok, i might contact a few of you to discuss this further in the next week or so. I'll send PMs but if you're busy then i totally understand.
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    I think if NHS bursaries are cut, GEM will not continue. Med schools may attempt to keep it going for a year or so after, but I highly doubt many graduates would be able to afford £36,000 plus living expenses, I know I certainly won't. Added to that, my first choice would be KCL - London prices, there would be no chance. Plus, once the first cohort of the £9000 a year graduate from their first degrees, and decide to do GEM, two degrees at £9000 a year, not happening.

    During the Nottingham open day, the majority of applicants were 30+, and most, if not all I spoke to in that age range had families. Now unless they were on fantastic wages, or their partners could fund the household without them, to find £36,000+ is completely ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Davidragon)
    Wouldn't the banks just assess who they think is more likely to drop out?
    How could they do this?
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    (Original post by thisismycatch22)
    Sorry, since when should students get government subsidies based on their own predicted future earnings, and not the nation's need for the subject in question?
    They shouldn't get subsidies because subsidies are for inducing people to do things they may not otherwise do. As it stands, we have enough people trying to become doctors, so it does not make sense to subsidise them. You seem convinced that if we don't subsidise medical degrees we don't value them, which is plain stupid.

    This might surprise you, but society has interests at stake beyond "how much money will Planar make if they spend three years doing philosophy/art history/whatever". No one is holding your face to the coals and forcing you to study a course with lower earning potential, if financial motivations are so important for you.
    Of course they're not, but why should arts students have to pay more just so science students can pay less? It's not fair.
 
 
 
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