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If we vote no in the referendum, I am leaving the UK watch

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    Advocacy of democracy nowadays can sound as dogmatic as religion.
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    Well, I'd probably be voting "yes" because I hate the concept of a wasted vote, especially in my area. Its been a safe conservative seat pretty much forever, yet there is obvious strong Labour and Lib Dem support. People are reluctant to vote, because of this stupid concept of it being a waste of time. The AV system hardly solves the problem of complete total representation, but its a step in the right direction, and might finally encourage people to actually vote for their beliefs, rather than voting tactically; it's just really messed up at the moment to be honest.

    The argument that smaller parties might gain some power, is not a problem to me. If its the nations decision that a party like the BNP should gain seats then its completely fair...and no I don't agree with any of BNP's values, but that shouldn't mean that they shouldn't be fairly represented. I don't think under the AV system, BNP would gain any seats, at least not under the previous election results, but I could be wrong. The fact is, these parties will probably remain in the minority.
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    the bnp are urging their voters to vote no on the referendum so I doubt av would help them
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    I have no idea what this referendum is...
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    Right, so you think the most democratic system is you telling people which way to vote in a referendem?

    Personally I'm undecided on whether AV is a good idea or not yet. However I am almost certain of the fact that AV will result in more coalitions, seeing as you just said that it would stop the monopoly of Labour and the Conservatives.
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    Good to know you have your priorities sorted. Do you want some help packing?
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.
    Really? Bigger than women getting the vote, say....? To be perfectly honest, neither system is truly representative of people's views. I dislike AV because if you vote for say 3 unpopular candidates with no chance, your 4th choice still carries the same weight in the final tally as someone who votes for a more popular candidate as their first choice! I would much prefer a system where you rank candidates in order of how much you like them, and then your first choice gets a certain number of points, your second half that and so on....I'm not entirely sure about how the distribution of points ought to be between first and second choice and so on, but you get the idea. This would be very complicated in practice though, so FPTP would be much simpler and easier to understand (one person one vote), and I will CERTAINLY be voting NO come May 5th!
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British
    rofl
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    good riddance to you and your self righteous beliefs then
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.
    Good, one less leftie to for me to worry about.

    And the 'breeding' comment wasn't offensive, and I agree with it. He simply said that giving money to people every time they have a child would be an incentive to breed. Nowhere did he liken people to animals, that's your own insecurites there.
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    And nothing of value will be lost.
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    (Original post by Antonia87)
    That can also be a downside. Proportional systems like AV could potentially allow not only marginal parties into Parliament, but extremist parties, like the BNP and or others.
    But if people want the BNP to get in, well what the people says, the people wants.

    Democracy is democracy right?
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    I will be voting no purely because the Lib Dems are pushing for it.

    Lets see some Lib Dem general election policies -

    *An amnesty for illagal immigrants (which would make them soon to be citizens and bringing over family etc which would amount to an estimated 1 and a half million more people in the UK)

    * Promise on student fees

    * closer ties wtih Europe, which we need like a ****ing hole in the head.

    Just from this I am voting no
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    I will be disappointed but I would not consider leaving.
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    Goodbye then.
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.
    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/3452

    Adieu.
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    Its a invalid negative argument to say that if we switch systems, the green party and BNP will get more seats. Surely the best system is the one that provides the make up of parliament reflecting the views of the people the best. That's what democracy is about.

    Interestingly under PR, the BNP would have an estimated 12 seats. As Imsoacademic said, if 12/650 of people (around 2%) voted for the BNP, then who is to say that a vote for them should mean less than a vote for a more orthodox party, and as a result they earned each of their seats just as Lab/Lib/Con etc did.

    The problem is from my experience, very few people care, and even fewer properly understand the referendum, as was also noted earlier. The old "nothing changes, and I can't make a difference" mantra is going to take effect, combined with the apathetic nature of many, and with the TV campaigns purposely overcomplicating the new systems to confuse voters, I think you won't be needing your passport yet.

    And to say that this is the biggest referendum in history is perhaps the overstatement of the century. Looking at the 2010 election if it was decided on an AV basis, Conservatives would have earned 22 less seats, Labour 10 less seats, and Liberals would have gained twenty-odd.

    Ok, so a few smaller parties make some significant and notable gains, but is the real face of politics going to change, apart from smaller parties kicking at the ankles of the giants?

    Answer - No.

    Thought I'd add, not a BNP supporter by any stretch of the imagination, despite my justification for them receiving more seats. Check sig
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.
    Goodbye, AV is not the way forward, it is going backwards.
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    Biggest Political Reform in history...bigger than giving Women the vote? I don't think so, this is nothing in the grand scheme.
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    (Original post by lonelykatana)
    Leave to where? Australia? The country with AV that are trying to get rid?
    Or one of them other countries with the same god damn voting system.

    I dont actually give a flying **** OP.

    Uhhh...

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/...tive-vote.html
 
 
 
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