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If we vote no in the referendum, I am leaving the UK watch

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    I'm very much in favour of AV but democracy is democracy and what the people want is what the people want, just the way it goes
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    You probably should have left in 'y2k1'.
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    Personally, I kind of want this referendum not to happen. Why? Because it's a diktat by two parties not even properly elected by the current system, wasting millions of pounds, which could seriously be better spent else where, to do what? Have a system that is so marginally better than FPTP that it might as well not change.

    Proper proportional representation is needed.
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    (Original post by Quadratic)
    It's erratic because it means the mainstream parties have to get their act together. They can't just blag it anymore, with campaigns on why not to vote the others; they actually have to try and deliver on their "promises" and sell themselves. Because let's face it, labour and conservatives know theyll win a lot of seats regardless, so they dont ever really TRY.
    So...a system which looks to make it more likely for them to win will make them try harder?

    It's the same old, same old. An elite group of politicians, pretty much untouched by the views of the public.
    And AV will fix this how? Consider Australia.

    But when democracy really kicks in
    Ironic from someone who starts the thread with a hissy fit over not getting his way.

    and we get a chance to have a fair say, these parties suddenly don't get in, or they do but we find out what they're really like. Consequently theres an erratic election of MP's, because MP's are being held more accountable for their actions.
    This makes no sense whatsoever.

    Perhaps you'd say that's bad, but I think it's fairer that way. Why should we be scared of what's ultimately right?
    I fail to see how AV will make MPs more accountable. 90% of safe seats with remain, some will become safer, and a couple more will become marginal. That's about it.

    I'll admit though that I know nothing about politics and that's just all my own viewpoint. I dont like mainstream parties.
    Fair enough, but I think a bit more forethought is required before you stride in to a forum with tons of politics geeks
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    Used to hear this sort of thing before 97 from highly paid entertainers and business people saying they'd leave the country if Labour won.

    well labour won in 97 and none of them went... and tbh that was people the electorate had heard of rather than internet randoms.
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    Oh and IMVHO it would have had a much better chance a lot earlier into the coalition government.

    The process you get under more proportional systems is a bit like what we're seeing in coalition - a politician will make various promises during the campaign then trade them away in back room deals with other parties in order to get themselves a place in government.

    liberal voters have seen it in action with Clegg and imo they don't like it - we're used to a system where the parties put forward complete programmes and if elected we expect them to deliver it, not some effed up smorgasbord like we're getting with the condems.
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    Any referendum on the voting system should be FPTP vs PR. I care too little about AV to have anything more than a mild disliking for it.
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    From what i've seen, AV looks to be an absolute nightmare.
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    (Original post by Belle_)
    such a small percentage of people vote Lib Dem, therefore you are in the minority. Get over it, if the people of Britain wanted them in power, they would vote them in. Changing the voting system is counter-productive and less democratic.

    But each to their own. If you leave, you leave.
    You're either ignorant, or wilfully stupid. Liberal Democrat vote in 2010: 23%, Labour vote in 2010: 29% You really think a vote share of 23% is 'a small percentage of people?', especially considering, it's 6% less than that of a party with 258 parliamentary seats.


    (Original post by Antonia87)
    That can also be a downside. Proportional systems like AV could potentially allow not only marginal parties into Parliament, but extremist parties, like the BNP and or others.
    It's highly unlikely the BNP will ever be elected under AV. Most people will put every single party other than the BNP as their preference than the BNP. It's called common sense, use it.
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    (Original post by RedRevolver)
    Personally, I kind of want this referendum not to happen. Why? Because it's a diktat by two parties not even properly elected by the current system, wasting millions of pounds, which could seriously be better spent else where, to do what? Have a system that is so marginally better than FPTP that it might as well not change.

    Proper proportional representation is needed.
    I agee with the part in bold.

    With the part underlined, I don't particularly understand people like you. I imagine people like you just want to have something to complain about, in order to feel validated about their political beliefs. What the **** else were they supposed to do? Reject the results of the election and just keep having endless general elections until the public cave in and just sway totally in one direction? That's the whole point of this reform :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Antonia87)
    That can also be a downside. Proportional systems like AV could potentially allow not only marginal parties into Parliament, but extremist parties, like the BNP and or others.
    I doubt the BNP would get a single seat under AV. It's not that much difference. There's a potential issue in that they would still be able to influence the final outcome and in some areas you could have MP's trying to appeal to them for "second preference" votes, but that's about it.

    marginal parties getting more seats is a problem, but the marginal parties are the ones who already have seats. Under the current system in a situation where a coalition is formed the second party has a fairly proportional sway in government, but give them a choice between who they can form a coalition with and they become disproportionately powerful. My major worry is that the lib dems, or worse, SNP, CYMRU, DUP etc become permanent king makers.
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    (Original post by RedRevolver)
    Personally, I kind of want this referendum not to happen. Why? Because it's a diktat by two parties not even properly elected by the current system, wasting millions of pounds, which could seriously be better spent else where, to do what? Have a system that is so marginally better than FPTP that it might as well not change.

    Proper proportional representation is needed.
    I don't understand your logic here. So, 2 parties with an overall vote percentage >50% and >50% of seats in parliament are not "properly elected" and yet you're promoting a system that would make such partnerships inevitable? So, what, you like the idea of proportional systems but not the result? Make your mind up.
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.
    OP, don't be ridiculous! You're going to leave your homeland for what country exactly? the middle east countries where there's countless corruption and conflicts? the USA? In my opinion, Britain has one of the best democracy in the western world. It sounds ridiculous leaving just because of the 'reform of the electoral system' which IMO is not even that important. There are much more important reforms such as the HOL, getting rid of party whips e.t.c. In what ways does it affect you anyway? You're lucky you have a lot more priviledge and freedom compared to some African countries and middle eastern countries

    I have to agree though that more than half of the UK's population do not understand how the AV or the STV system works. This could have an impact on the outcome in May. I'm also hopeful that the AV system does come into practice even though IMO. I don't really think it will make that much different compared to the FPTP system but it is in practice much more proportional and this could mean more parties getting represented instead of the same old parties every election.

    For me, whatever the outcome is, doesn't really change a thing. The only positive thing like I've said above is the UK being a multi-party system instead of a two/three party system. MP's expenses scandal will always continue as long as they're in power. Just because the majority votes 'no' doesn't mean that the UK will suffer from an elective dictatorship or become a corrupt regime.

    There's really nothing to worry about OP.
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    (Original post by RedRevolver)
    Personally, I kind of want this referendum not to happen. Why? Because it's a diktat by two parties not even properly elected by the current system, wasting millions of pounds, which could seriously be better spent else where, to do what? Have a system that is so marginally better than FPTP that it might as well not change.

    Proper proportional representation is needed.
    I just hope you're aware that, most likely, we will be under a constant coalition government with PR?
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    I'm definitely in favour of voting yes to a system that makes the electrion process fairer and more democratic. Unfortunately, thats not on offer. What is being offered is a system far less democratic than the one we already have. So the answer of any rational human being is "no thanks".
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    (Original post by *Hakz*)
    OP, don't be ridiculous! You're going to leave your homeland for what country exactly? the middle east countries where there's countless corruption and conflicts? the USA? In my opinion, Britain has one of the best democracy in the western world. It sounds ridiculous leaving just because of the 'reform of the electoral system' which IMO is not even that important. There are much more important reforms such as the HOL, getting rid of party whips e.t.c. In what ways does it affect you anyway? You're lucky you have a lot more priviledge and freedom compared to some African countries and middle eastern countries

    I have to agree though that more than half of the UK's population do not understand how the AV or the STV system works. This could have an impact on the outcome in May. I'm also hopeful that the AV system does come into practice even though IMO. I don't really think it will make that much different compared to the FPTP system but it is in practice much more proportional and this could mean more parties getting represented instead of the same old parties every election.

    For me, whatever the outcome is, doesn't really change a thing. The only positive thing like I've said above is the UK being a multi-party system instead of a two/three party system. MP's expenses scandal will always continue as long as they're in power. Just because the majority votes 'no' doesn't mean that the UK will suffer from an elective dictatorship or become a corrupt regime.

    There's really nothing to worry about OP.
    OP could be joking....
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    (Original post by Belle_)
    such a small percentage of people vote Lib Dem, therefore you are in the minority. Get over it, if the people of Britain wanted them in power, they would vote them in. Changing the voting system is counter-productive and less democratic.

    But each to their own. If you leave, you leave.
    Actually, around a quarter of the electorate voted for the Lib Dems in the election. FPTP meant they got under 10% of the seats. Explain how that's democratic or productive.

    (Original post by Barden)
    Democracy is democracy is democracy.

    I don't care about this referendum either way... wake me up when the results are in... but not before 11 am
    Labour - 29% of the vote, 40% of the seats
    Tory - 36% of the vote, 47% of the seats
    Liberal - 23% of the vote, 9% of the seats
    UKIP - 3% of the vote, 0% of the seats
    Green - 1% of the vote, 0.1% of the seats

    And that's before you even factor in tactical and negative voting. Democracy is not democracy is not democracy.

    (Original post by Antonia87)
    That can also be a downside. Proportional systems like AV could potentially allow not only marginal parties into Parliament, but extremist parties, like the BNP and or others.
    Only if 50% of the electorate in a constituency support the BNP. And if they do, well that's democracy.
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    OP could be joking....
    OP sounds serious. I just find it amusing why someone will want to leave their country because of the outcome of a 'referendum' on electoral reform.
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    see ya later alligator
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    (Original post by y2k1)
    I'm proper British. Born and raised in Manchester and though I would never leave but if the people of Britain vote no on what is the biggest democratic push in history, then I will leave. I will no longer identify with the people of Britain, my own kind. This referendum is the biggest political change in history so if you do not understand it but decided to vote no because you know the Lib's want it, then you deserve to be shot down. The FPTP system that we have now allows for the monopoly of Cons and Labour to consistently come first and second. This means that they know they can put piece of **** candidates like ex mp Howard Flight without fear of losing. BTW he's the one who likened the working classes to animals "breding". So next time you have an expenses scandal and the MP still retains his/her seat, remember it was your fault for saying no.

    [IMG][/IMG]
 
 
 
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