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    Have you tried exchange lists? http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes-diet/DA00077

    They are quite often used when people have a fixation with calories.

    Unlearning the calorie counting was perhaps one of the most difficult things to do honestly. The only two things I could do about it was (a) originally being distracted whilst eating and (b) eating things that were completely mystery numbers, i.e. going to un-calorie counted restaurants. It was terrifying, but it had to be done.

    I do apologise though, I fear I'm becoming quit anal at the moment. Sorry...
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    Not at all, Antiaris.

    Like I said, however, I'm just not allowed to ditch the constant counting just yet. I'd love to be able to get to the point of taking the next scary step of "I have no idea what I'm eating", but I'm still at refeed stage. I think I look perfectly fine now but apparently I'm still hovering about the BMI 16-16.5 stage - which my Dietician, Psychiatrist and Endocrinologist all agree is still the point where I should be mechanically refeeding - ie, food diaries kept to a strict numerical count. I can't wait to get to the point where they'll all agree I'm out of any danger enough to just go mad and take a blind dive.

    But when I get to the next stage I'll take on board your suggestions, bud; you've never given dud advice for as long as I've known you.
    • #48
    #48

    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    "I fancy a milkshake" - I now think this. I would love to SOLELY think this, but as I have to keep a strict numerical food diary to ENSURE a minimum caloric intake per day, I still have to say "I fancy a milkshake. A milkshake is 400."
    But do you say 'I fancy a milkshake. That's 400. I can't have it then'? I guess just keep slogging is harsh but true, you'll get there in the end :hugs:
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    (Original post by Liv1204)
    Just a few thoughts:

    Spoiler:
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    From what you say (and from what you've written in the past), it sounds like your therapist has a point and is understanding you well. The biggest problem for you (objectively, subjectively it may not feel that way!) seems to be the intense anxiety that you experience if you feel like you've 'binged' or eating something 'unhealthy', even if those things logically are 'healthy' for the majority of people eating a healthy and balanced diet, if that makes sense? So your health anxiety seems to be manifesting itself in food and eating and thus leading to eating disordered behaviours, in a way? Either way, it is still an issue with food for you, and whatever the diagnosis is, it seems that food (and/or health anxiety) concerns are a way of controlling/dealing with/avoiding the deeper issues you're having.

    As you say, what you eat is absolutely fine, and to most people would be considered a very healthy diet. And your point about the 250-cal snack every day...well, technically yes, if you had a 250-cal snack *over the number of calories needed to maintain a certain weight* every day, then you would put on a pound a fortnight (give or take, obviously not a case of 'you will definitely put on said amount of weight). But in reality it's not that simple. Because in reality, sometimes people have days where they will eat more than they usually would, or more unhealthily than they usually do, and other days people don't feel hungry, or are busy and eat less, or for whatever reason eat under the amount they usually should, and it all evens out on the whole. Especially when exercise is taken into account also, even just with everyday movement, daily routines, exercise and all that, somedays people burn a lot more than other days and it all balances out to maintain a stable weight on the whole. And especially when you also bear in mind how much weight will fluctuate anyway!

    I don't think it sounds awful if you subconsciously like parts of what you're doing. I think it's a very common thought (even if not often stated), because like you said, you do get something out of it. And so do the majority of people who fall into eating disordered thoughts. If we didn't get anything from doing it, it wouldn't become a habit in the first place. For some it is the reassurance, for some it is a control thing, for some it is the attention it can bring (not in a bad way, but even just that sense of 'I can't cope, I need help, I'm struggling').

    For me, part of it is that sense of 'I want to challenge myself'. Like I always want to prove to myself that I can do something, that I can put myself through a challenge and achieve something. It's just that for me I tend to fall into unhealthy 'challenges', so part of coping for me is learning to set myself a positive challenge, something hard to work towards and put my energy into in a good way. Maybe in the future that's something you can think of, something you'd like to achieve and put your focus into in a healthy way? (Not saying straight away obviously, because there's no point pushing yourself so hard you make yourself anxious or fall into 'safety' behaviours, but even just a small challenge).

    So yes, this is ridiculously long, but just so you know your post was read and hopefully this will help even just a tiny bit if you manage to get through it all!

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    Thanks for reading, Liv. It's definitely stuff to think about.
    I guess with the snack thing I meant say I were to eat a chocolate bar every day, over a fortnight that would make me have a pound increase in body fat...and this is where I think the disordered thought comes in. Because I see family and friends having little treats every day and I don't see them ballooning and I wouldn't even regard them as "skinny-fat" which I would apply to myself half the time. I just don't understand how I've got so many double standards.
    This is a bit of a pointless and time/life-consuming challenge for me, as well. I've got two challenges right now, one's directly related to it all (eating mindfully as to re-integrate with the idea of pleasurable eating while becoming aware of when and why I emotionally eat or overeat, plus the thoughts associated with overeating) and the other's something more long-term and probably more helpful (becoming more assertive, boosting self-esteem, not taking everything so seriously and giving myself more time to do what I want for a change).
    I wasn't sure whether it'd trigger me but I watched Supersize v. Superskinny last night and the confusing thing was I could associated with both extremes. I've got (or certainly had) both the sense of denial, lack of confidence and need to please in severely overweight Rob AND the self-sacrificing, overly self-critical ethos of the underweight Hayley. So I don't know where I fit in and what I should be working on the most. Is the overeating the big thing that needs to change or is that just an inevitable consequence of forever investing so much energy into a fruitless goal? (And yet I'm not really dieting, being honest I don't overexercise or anything I'm sat at this half the time or doing something not necessarily very ctive tbqh, just eating well and getting on with things with the odd trip to the gym with my mate lol. Should I be doing more, I wonder? But then I think back to when I had to leave my nan's halfway through a visit to burn off some of dinner...Round and round) Guess it'll just take a bit more time. I make myself tired and anxious just sitting in contemplation all day. There's only so much you can think before you need to act x



    Toto, the fact you once again hold a genuine pleasure in eating and feel during it is a huge step forward. All your awesome food competition threads and blog indicate that : D Gotta say I'm not quite at that stage yet, I do pick stuff for the macros a lot but practice IE yet there's still a feeling of violation from my choosing to rebel against that instinct, which often triggers the trance or panic attack. It happened unexpectedly yesterday, a planned treat turned into a mindless eat.
    I understand your analogy of the stream and remember the Sonic rings one too but as I said to Liv, it's more the awareness of the fact I'm having something "bad" or "empty" (even if the grand irony of it is right now I could be having wayy too much of the stuff). Interestingly it's not the same at family gatherings and the like anymore for the most part, because I can almost justify the act of indulgence by the fact "everyone else is doing it".
    Could you maybe try sticking to the meal plan as your team have requested, but during the process of eating itself really focus on the tastes and entire experience? Wise words from Antiaris on the power of Now. So, so much easier than done, of course.

    On a tangent to remind myself as Toto said that we are NOT machines and have blessed personality too, just bought a wadload of PS1 classics on PSN. I have a pile of RPGs like Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect and Final Fantasy but realistically there's not enough time for them until the long summer break, and I think as part of how I'm feelings I just have childhood platforming pangs right now.
    So, Toy Story 2 and Gex, anyone? :P
    If anyone's interested, thoughts on Rayman Origins? Debating whether to get it, all the reviews suggest it's a return to form.
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    I might be biased Riku, actually being an employee (artist) of Ubisoft myself and having WORKED on graphics, but Rayman Origins genuinely is one of the most beautiful games I've played in recent times. Also, it takes my "Platformer of 2011" award, beating out Mario.

    Take that as you will
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    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    I might be biased Riku, actually being an employee (artist) of Ubisoft myself and having WORKED on graphics, but Rayman Origins genuinely is one of the most beautiful games I've played in recent times. Also, it takes my "Platformer of 2011" award, beating out Mario.

    Take that as you will
    I suspected as much Toto ;D but gotta agree it looks glorious and I'm willing to stake some cash out on it once I'm through all these PS1 classics. Nice work man!
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    I actually feel guilty now for being a poke-fanboy instead of an Ubisoft fanboy...

    Come on TOTO, design 6th generation please. ;P
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    Poke-purist agrees the gens need a revamp. I mean come on, the colour palette's almost dry, if you get me
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    Hi There,

    I just wanted a quick bit of advice from you guys.

    i have been experiencing bad pins & needles in my hands & legs which then progress to cramping where my hands do very strange things. And wondered whether anyone has experienced anything similar? Its got to stage where i can't lean on anything or even cross my legs.

    i just wondered whether this would be anything to with low pottassium? i have had it on/off for many years but this symptom is something relatively new & increasing in its frequency.

    Thankyou
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    (Original post by natalie122)
    Hi There,

    I just wanted a quick bit of advice from you guys.

    i have been experiencing bad pins & needles in my hands & legs which then progress to cramping where my hands do very strange things. And wondered whether anyone has experienced anything similar? Its got to stage where i can't lean on anything or even cross my legs.

    i just wondered whether this would be anything to with low pottassium? i have had it on/off for many years but this symptom is something relatively new & increasing in its frequency.

    Thankyou
    I would guess that it's something to do with electrolytes, as imbalances can do weird things to your nerves...and unfortunately, they can affect your heart as well.
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    Could possibly be electrolyte imbalances, Natalie-and yes, that might not but could be bad news for your heart. If your potassium's running low I'd suggest having some fruit-bananas, oranges and strawberries are among the best for K. If it persists I hope you get to see a GP. :hugs:
    _______
    #Why is it that the better life gets, the blander and less interesting food seems?
    Not sure if this is an entirely good sign, but it's the third day in a row that I've been distinctly apathetic to what I'm eating-even at a family reunion all-you-can eat at the weekend-and in most other aspects I've felt great?
    I know my appetite's better after exercising though. Some of ther meals I've most enjoyed-really enjoyed-have been right after a workout. But most times it just ceases to do anything for me anymore. Whereas I get genuine guilt and physical anxiety if I either eat when not hungry, overeat when I am, or emotionally eat, and I'm wondering whether I'm so afraid of binging or overeating that Im forcing myself to work too hard on eating mindfully, which is eventually going to reinforce the idea of restricting.
    The danger is that I start refusing to eat anything except something which has nutritional benefit or goes towards "bettering" my body which is a dangerous road to go back along when I really want to move forward. At the same time I have frequently used food for some means of comfort or venting frustration and I'm trying not to use food when really I have many other coping mechanisms and support available and I don't emotionally need it. I don't know what to do.
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    Hey Toto, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences and I give all the hope to your future recovery. I myself am an over achiever, and as my GCSEs were approaching in year 10 of school, I ended up going through anorexia, dropping to 4 stone 9 pounds. It was so horrible, I was taken into an adolscent mental health unit and treated there for 8 months, where I made a full recovery. It is achievable my friend, I sat my GCSEs in there, and came out with Bs and a few As but many Cs, getting me into college. I realised then that even though I had been troubled and didn't get the A*s that I wanted, I was still acceptable to top colleges, and now they know my illness, I have a higher oppurtunity to get into universities of my choice. Recovering a mental health issue is the hardest thing possible, and probably THE most achievable thing I have ever done. I am so proud of myself. I weigh something around 10stone now, I'm not overweight, but I am a bit chubby (I think I am) but hey, I love my life. Once you 'fail' or don't achieve something, just think, you're recovering/recovered an eating disorder. Probably the best thing you would have ever done and impossible for others.
    I wish you the best, Fay xx
    • #48
    #48

    (Original post by Riku)
    Could possibly be electrolyte imbalances, Natalie-and yes, that might not but could be bad news for your heart. If your potassium's running low I'd suggest having some fruit-bananas, oranges and strawberries are among the best for K. If it persists I hope you get to see a GP. :hugs:
    _______
    #Why is it that the better life gets, the blander and less interesting food seems?
    Not sure if this is an entirely good sign, but it's the third day in a row that I've been distinctly apathetic to what I'm eating-even at a family reunion all-you-can eat at the weekend-and in most other aspects I've felt great?
    I know my appetite's better after exercising though. Some of ther meals I've most enjoyed-really enjoyed-have been right after a workout. But most times it just ceases to do anything for me anymore. Whereas I get genuine guilt and physical anxiety if I either eat when not hungry, overeat when I am, or emotionally eat, and I'm wondering whether I'm so afraid of binging or overeating that Im forcing myself to work too hard on eating mindfully, which is eventually going to reinforce the idea of restricting.
    The danger is that I start refusing to eat anything except something which has nutritional benefit or goes towards "bettering" my body which is a dangerous road to go back along when I really want to move forward. At the same time I have frequently used food for some means of comfort or venting frustration and I'm trying not to use food when really I have many other coping mechanisms and support available and I don't emotionally need it. I don't know what to do.
    I don't know if you've heard of it but there's a term called Orthorexia - where you eat, but you only eat nutritionally good things for your body (just fruit and protein I guess); it's a bit of a buzz word in ED communities and I'm not sure if it's an actual diagnosis but it sounds like what you're talking about in your last paragraph.

    --

    Tummy rumbling during counselling appointment = :sigh: Bought myself some yummy M+S prawns, strawberries and a yoghurt to have for lunch, so tummy can shut up!
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I don't know if you've heard of it but there's a term called Orthorexia - where you eat, but you only eat nutritionally good things for your body (just fruit and protein I guess); it's a bit of a buzz word in ED communities and I'm not sure if it's an actual diagnosis but it sounds like what you're talking about in your last paragraph.

    --

    Tummy rumbling during counselling appointment = :sigh: Bought myself some yummy M+S prawns, strawberries and a yoghurt to have for lunch, so tummy can shut up!
    There was a time when I thought it was Orthorexia, but it's not. Not that, not anorexia, not bulimia, not BED. If I ever had an eating disorder, I apparently don't now, so says the therapist-and to be honest, I never saw any diagnosis from my doctor either. But I'm getting pretty extreme disordered thoughts from emotional eating which are all linked to the health and general anxiety and the ED Services are intervening with some counselling again to help me through it and try and figure out what's really going on.
    It's strange to think of myself as not even having an ED but at the same time it's a blessing. And it is making me think about why I tried to diagnose myself in the first place.
    Thanks anyway. Way to go with lunch! :hugs:
    • #48
    #48

    (Original post by Riku)
    There was a time when I thought it was Orthorexia, but it's not. Not that, not anorexia, not bulimia, not BED. If I ever had an eating disorder, I apparently don't now, so says the therapist-and to be honest, I never saw any diagnosis from my doctor either. But I'm getting pretty extreme disordered thoughts from emotional eating which are all linked to the health and general anxiety and the ED Services are intervening with some counselling again to help me through it and try and figure out what's really going on.
    It's strange to think of myself as not even having an ED but at the same time it's a blessing. And it is making me think about why I tried to diagnose myself in the first place.
    Thanks anyway. Way to go with lunch! :hugs:
    I really hope you get it sorted. :hugs:

    The strawberries are so good, half price at M+S atm, making it £2.29 for a 400g punnet and they're always so big and juicy - my little splurge, haha, as the punnet lasts me like... two days!
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    (Original post by nosceteipsummm)
    I would guess that it's something to do with electrolytes, as imbalances can do weird things to your nerves...and unfortunately, they can affect your heart as well.
    thankyou I did think this might be the case so getting my bloods checked tomorrow.
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    How is everyone today?

    I went to nandos for the very first time & i loved it!
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    (Original post by natalie122)
    How is everyone today?

    I went to nandos for the very first time & i loved it!
    I've had a lovely day. Started revision for my AS german resits. I understand so much more of the handouts we were given last year, unfortunately also notice mistakes in my essays that should have been corrected, but never were...
    • #93
    #93

    I've been reading this thread for a long time in my hope to find help without speaking up but I just can't anymore. I dont really know what to type about myself as I dont know what is going on myself. The only way I can describe it is that basically about 2 years ago I developed a love of food, I was a normal weight around 8 and a half stone to 9 stone and I was happy. Then my obsession became stronger, from baking, obsessing over different foods and constant eating. People joked about how much I eat and I never really thought anything of it till right now as Im typing, I guess that although I never realised it I started limiting what I ate because I must have associated with eating that must, so surely I must be fat?

    (Ive seen spoilers throughout this for hiding numbers, calories, bmi, etc but im not sure how to do that so this is just a warning)

    Now two years on and at 5ft7 weight 96lbs so have a bmi of 15.0. I went to the doctors unrelated to this around 5 months ago as I had not had my period, my mum took me as she was worried that it may be a cyst, similarly to what she had at my age. When i went to the doctors i weight 7st 12 so although I was underweight for my height it wasnt significant and noone had really picked up on it. I had tests done and there were no reasons as to why they had stopped, my doctor merely suggested it could be related to my weight decreasing from last time i had seen her. After more tests i went back for the results which were negative again, so this time she focussed on my weight. I had lost more weight and was 7st 7lbs. She asked me to keep a food diary so she could check that i was eating healthily. I did this and 4 weeks later I went back with my food diary and was weighed again. My problem is I lied about what I ate in my food diary.. I had lost more weight at 7st 4lbs so here she approached me about the dietician and referring me to something called eating disorders management? Im in denial. I told her that I knew i was eating enough and proved this with my food diary, but inside i knew something was wrong but i was too embarrassed to tell her. So this is when we made a promise that if i maintained my weight or hopefully put on some weight before my next appointment she wouldnt refer me. My next appointment is tomorrow and im scared.
    On my average day I consume approximatley 1000 calories, I increased from 700/800 because i promised myself i would put weight on. But the thought makes me resist, i dont understand where the extra weight would go, i can already stand infront of the mirror and pull on my fat on my stomach so if i was to put on the weight she wants me too how on earth could i look attractive in anyway.
    sometimes i have these thoughts that i am too thin, i get overridden with guilt and go on crazy binges, like tonight then i feel horrible and i hate it.

    wow, im sorry about that. I have never ever spoke to anyone about this and i guess thats why i have just rabbitted on and bored you all! i dont even know why i have done this or what the purpose of it was, i guess i just need help because im feeling sooo guilty after that binge. sorry
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    Anonymous, you are so brave. Your body is desperate for nutrition. The cravings and binges are merely your body's way of saying "I'm dying here, give me SOMETHING, PLEASE!" - when you relinquish control to the craving, you think you're being weak, but you're quite literally only giving your body what it needs to be ALIVE.

    For example I am only 101lbs. I am a 27 year old 5' 7 MAN. I should be at LEAST 120lb. But I STILL freak out when my body goes nuts wanting a chocolate bar.

    I bet like a lot of us, you hold different standards for yourself as you do for others. For example, when you see a size 12-14 girl, you say "she's normal."

    But when you see yourself and scrutinise your tiny self you see something huge?
 
 
 
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