Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Eating Disorders and life with one - Discussions, Opinions, Advice. Watch

    • #43
    #43

    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    Riku, you've hit the nail on the head.

    If you have any sense of turmoil over a decision you've made based on a set of tenets you've set yourself - and to simplify that I mean, if someone requests something of you, but you refuse based on some unreasonably rule you've set yourself - you at least have the luxury of KNOWING you've done the wrong thing because of your disorder.

    Anorexia is making excuses not to see people in case they impose calories upon you. Orthorexia is making excuses not to see people in case they impose a situation where you cannot improve your physical fitness overtly.

    Two sides of the very same coin. X
    Was it the wrong thing though? I had a friend at the Proms. I went to watch it at my dad's after, it was great. We needed to sort out the plans. I cared more than seeing friends who only really wanted me to get drunk and have a good time (I've been to town enough to know , I always lose them, I can't talk to them, town is not my thing

    Toto, I'm not attacking you, I am genuinely in a dilemma whether the urge to take care of oneself in any shape or form is vanity (that doesn't just mean, that means getting enough to eat, sleep and psychological rest) . I made a big-ass post about it the other day because I hit the point where I just felt selfish, I refused to let myself sleep

    I just want a choice what to do with my life dammit
    • #43
    #43

    and I don't want it ALL to be gym but in this case |I stayed inside watched Hetalia sorted my room we're moving house soon it was OK
    needed the rest


    Spoiler:
    Show

    Is it orthorexia if I made an excuse to not have my anti-ds have absolutely no effect and possibly have a relapse? If I don't get enough sleep I get angry and it is hard not to hit myself


    It is really really important I sleep well enough right now for the sake of my mental wellbeing. The consequences of not could be disastrous (I mean my psych said I would probably get arrested. Is it still vain and selfish?
    because you are probably still right
    [/spoiler]
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    and I don't want it ALL to be gym but in this case |I stayed inside watched Hetalia sorted my room we're moving house soon it was OK
    needed the rest


    Spoiler:
    Show

    Is it orthorexia if I made an excuse to not have my anti-ds have absolutely no effect and possibly have a relapse? If I don't get enough sleep I get angry and it is hard not to hit myself


    It is really really important I sleep well enough right now for the sake of my mental wellbeing. The consequences of not could be disastrous (I mean my psych said I would probably get arrested. Is it still vain and selfish?
    because you are probably still right
    [/spoiler]

    Riku, I don't want to come across as OVERLY harsh on you, but you are being that on yourself already, so I fear I haven't got much other option. You've proven yourself a loyal friend to me for a while now, so I want you to take what I have to say in great weight.

    The very nature of your posts (frantic, panicked, emotional) - it's obvious to me that your mental disorder is still very much in the apex of it's grip on you. The problem is that when we start to recover we forget what it is we might've wanted in the first place. But we slowly learn to appreciate it once more.

    We put stupid, arbitrary, pointless things on pedestals and worship them. Are you dying? Are you unhealthy? In pain? No, you're not, Rik, and I stress that to you. You're none of these things. You're a healthy young man, who keeps making excuses to get even healthier. Mega-healthy. The HEALTHIEST. Do you see what I'm doing here?

    You are definitely a considered, incredibly intelligent guy, but what you're lacking is perspective. You're lacking viewpoint.

    I was once that guy. I used to scrutinise every aspect of life and find a fault, ravage it to cinders, yet still dote on it. That's no way to live your life.

    I gained a sense of optimism. My mental disorder at one point had me with weeks to live. WEEKS, Riku. Yet I still made excuses for it. "Surely I'm not being THAT unreasonable, right?" - I look back on it now and wish I could teleport myself through time and space just to slap my own face.

    Riku, you are being unreasonable and you are making excuses, but you are not under attack. I am only telling you what I am telling you because it's the stern, cruel, and very real - truth.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hello123321)
    I'm sorry to chip in but I'm really interested in what comments you might want to hear instead of ''you look healthy''? like what encouraging comments would you like to hear that wouldn't sound off-putting or be quite sensitive to you? It's just nice to hear things from other people's perspective that's all, thanks
    It's actually really difficult. Any comment on appearance (positive/negative) is twisted by the anorexia, so that even positive comments are took negatively. At the moment therapy is helping on how to deal with the thoughts around comments, and how to take them positively.
    So I'm not really sure what comments I'd like to hear around recovery - maybe an encouraging but simple "keep it up!"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    Riku, I don't want to come across as OVERLY harsh on you, but you are being that on yourself already, so I fear I haven't got much other option. You've proven yourself a loyal friend to me for a while now, so I want you to take what I have to say in great weight.

    The very nature of your posts (frantic, panicked, emotional) - it's obvious to me that your mental disorder is still very much in the apex of it's grip on you. The problem is that when we start to recover we forget what it is we might've wanted in the first place. But we slowly learn to appreciate it once more.

    We put stupid, arbitrary, pointless things on pedestals and worship them. Are you dying? Are you unhealthy? In pain? No, you're not, Rik, and I stress that to you. You're none of these things. You're a healthy young man, who keeps making excuses to get even healthier. Mega-healthy. The HEALTHIEST. Do you see what I'm doing here?

    You are definitely a considered, incredibly intelligent guy, but what you're lacking is perspective. You're lacking viewpoint.

    I was once that guy. I used to scrutinise every aspect of life and find a fault, ravage it to cinders, yet still dote on it. That's no way to live your life.

    I gained a sense of optimism. My mental disorder at one point had me with weeks to live. WEEKS, Riku. Yet I still made excuses for it. "Surely I'm not being THAT unreasonable, right?" - I look back on it now and wish I could teleport myself through time and space just to slap my own face.

    Riku, you are being unreasonable and you are making excuses, but you are not under attack. I am only telling you what I am telling you because it's the stern, cruel, and very real - truth.
    I'll think this through thanks man
    • #180
    #180

    The creep came back into work today :crying: Trying to hold on to the fact that I only have 6 shifts left, but I'm terrified of going back in tomorrow. Work have been brilliant (i.e. today, I pointed him out and they instantly closed my till and let me hang about in the staff room until he had gone) but still... Things like this really, really unsettle me.


    Toto your words are as wise as ever :hugs:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    ^^ Auto-anon!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    My holiday has set me back so much. I cant believe my supposed best friends would act like that. I dont even feel like I belong here anymore.. so confused about everything :'( I just want it all to end.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 05autyt)
    My holiday has set me back so much. I cant believe my supposed best friends would act like that. I dont even feel like I belong here anymore.. so confused about everything :'( I just want it all to end.
    You want it "all to end"? You mean, life in general? I hope you've re-read this statement you made with a bit of level-headed clarity today.

    Sometimes we place critical value on something in the moment that in the grand scheme of things, means very little.

    Often I'll think of when I was fifteen or so and thought being rejected by a girl was the most devastating feeling in life, and that I wanted to just be swallowed by the earth beneath me. Now, I think I was a stupid child.

    In some respects, I still act like a stupid child - and that's what these mental disorders do to us. They undermine our maturity and make us think like kids.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    You want it "all to end"? You mean, life in general? I hope you've re-read this statement you made with a bit of level-headed clarity today.

    Sometimes we place critical value on something in the moment that in the grand scheme of things, means very little.

    Often I'll think of when I was fifteen or so and thought being rejected by a girl was the most devastating feeling in life, and that I wanted to just be swallowed by the earth beneath me. Now, I think I was a stupid child.

    In some respects, I still act like a stupid child - and that's what these mental disorders do to us. They undermine our maturity and make us think like kids.
    I guess thats what I meant :/ I dont even know anymore. I just cant cope. I tried so hard and it all got thrown back in my face. I'm not doing this for me, I was doing it because my friends wanted me to, said I needed to. And just as I was accepting I needed help, finally getting my life back on track, they scream at me that I'm just attention seeking and I don't actually have anything wrong with me at all. And now I feel like a fake. What is wrong with me. I'm so confused. I was trying to fix this. And now I've taken so many steps backwards. They convinced me I had a problem.. and now they think I dont. I don't know if it was just the alcohol talking but they were all so horrible. And I cant cope with that again. With people thinking that. I'm struggling so much, and now I dont even have my best friends. I'm sorry if this is really negative and I'm stressing people out. I just cant stop thinking like this right now.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Bear in mind that these are people who are wracking their minds of ways of how to help you. People that have brought you into the world, who have fought to bring you up safe and well, and here you've developed a mental disorder they can do nothing but watch destroy you from the inside. Nothing they can do can help. No matter how frustrated, how incredibly hard they fight to find ways to help, how to convey it, they keep watching you again and again do something so completely illogical to hurt yourself again and again.

    Remember my metaphor of the man who puts his hand into a flame? That's what you are right now. Everyone is told just to accept it. "He's got a mental disorder, he just does that." The man, every day, burns his hand in a fire. He has believed it's normal behaviour, yet it hurts like crazy and he's fed up of doing it. One day, one of his family can't take any more and screams, "WHY THE HELL MUST YOU BURN YOUR HAND?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!" - suddenly they've had one too many. They've seen you killing yourself just a touch too many times and it becomes an outburst.

    You have to understand we put the people we love through a lot as they witness the things we do to ourselves - a somewhat selfish indulgence in killing ourselves slowly just so we don't have to face real world issues, so we have a preoccupation with something else to give us carte blanche, to absolve us, make us exempt from the criteria of normality.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TotoMimo)

    Riku, you are being unreasonable and you are making excuses, but you are not under attack. I am only telling you what I am telling you because it's the stern, cruel, and very real - truth.
    Spoiler:
    Show

    I know what it is I wanted now-well, right now anyway.
    I wanted control over my choices in life.
    I must have panicked when you asked me because, well, I felt threatened. But I understand you didn't mean to attack me.

    What it seems to be is I feel other people, much less aware than you and much less caring, are attacking me on

    -Lifestyle choices (e.g. the healthy eating, being in the gym, having an early night (?), trying not to drink too much due to familial history of depression and some alcoholism)

    I don't want myself to have to believe that exercise or eating well outright is a disorder-I still feel it's the balance. I know too much junk, not enough sleep or exercise starts to sap my mental health, and that needs to be a priority.
    But of course it can fall out of balance.
    And were it something other than town, like the pub or a house party where I could talk to them and know they wouldn't wander off on me, I would've gone. But I know what they're like in town, it's not a great place to catch up for me.

    -Personality (I don't really feel I fit in as a student lad, not drinking, kinda shy, bit geeky, possibly too sensitive...? I've always been on the emotional side, is the world getting colder or am I just too soft to handle reality?

    -Hobbies. In particular reading. I love it, but it's now bittersweet to me, which is ironic considering it's my degree. I went through a phase in A Levels when I tried to excel academically, started reading things like Crime and Punishment, Les Miserables, Paradise Lost, The Divine Comedy...this year I start deliberately flunking my English degree because I feel pretentious just doing it and just awkward being there. It's like I've become ashamed of wanting to learn :/


    And that's what's making me feel threatened all over, not just if someone disapproves of me going to the gym, or it seems that way.
    (I'm not sure why I still after all this time think people are hiding in the bushes to shoot me on sight )


    I really appreciate your insight though, and you're absolutely right there are some aspects which are just plain damaging.
    You're completely right about the physical bit. And I'll admit, I'm still obsessed. Going out on the lash is still threatening (even though I sort of ended up doing it yesterday with a Pimms and gin mix at my uncle's 50th, ouch!) But then I'm sometimes a threat to myself at the moment, when I cease to care about letting myself get any rest or sleep for example.

    There are certain things I'm really not proud of
    Spoiler:
    Show

    starting to appreciate the belief that ''fitspiration is thinspiration in a bikini' -some of it is. Some's empowering to people who want to regain control of their lives, some just makes you feel a worse person just because you don't look like them. Which you're right, is horrific and shallow and pathetic and gives so many people insecurities. So I want to stop supporting that part of it, and I hope that can make me a better man for myself and my lady


    I'm not sure if that's what you were hoping to hear from me, but that's where I am. Trying to rebalance my life in a way I can love all the good and handle all the bad, without bring consumed by any.

    :hugs:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 05autyt)
    I guess thats what I meant :/ I dont even know anymore. I just cant cope. I tried so hard and it all got thrown back in my face. I'm not doing this for me, I was doing it because my friends wanted me to, said I needed to. And just as I was accepting I needed help, finally getting my life back on track, they scream at me that I'm just attention seeking and I don't actually have anything wrong with me at all. And now I feel like a fake. What is wrong with me. I'm so confused. I was trying to fix this. And now I've taken so many steps backwards. They convinced me I had a problem.. and now they think I dont. I don't know if it was just the alcohol talking but they were all so horrible. And I cant cope with that again. With people thinking that. I'm struggling so much, and now I dont even have my best friends. I'm sorry if this is really negative and I'm stressing people out. I just cant stop thinking like this right now.
    I can't excuse your friends for what they said but they only said it because they care and they're confused. They don't know how to help and what they do know is going to be patchy and sensationalised at best. If you had never had ED but your friend suffered one, would you know what was up? How to change their mind or why they did the things they did? If it only it were that easy...
    The media likes extremes, not always the reality of shades of gray. So for Joe Public that can mean they understand an eating disorder as what it actually is in its final, most fatal stage. It should never go that far, warning signs are littered about long before that dark day. It's often difficult to tell the difference between a genuine cry for help and seeking attention. But watch out for the tendency to play the Boy Who Cried Wolf (by that I don't mean lie, but play the 'I'm sick!' card to absolve you of any responsibility. It's too easy to fall into, and the only way you can get better is to accept you want to change.

    Please don't give up. You'll fix this, and we're here. They may just ened some time to think, learn and understand. :hugs:
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    Bear in mind that these are people who are wracking their minds of ways of how to help you. People that have brought you into the world, who have fought to bring you up safe and well, and here you've developed a mental disorder they can do nothing but watch destroy you from the inside. Nothing they can do can help. No matter how frustrated, how incredibly hard they fight to find ways to help, how to convey it, they keep watching you again and again do something so completely illogical to hurt yourself again and again.

    Remember my metaphor of the man who puts his hand into a flame? That's what you are right now. Everyone is told just to accept it. "He's got a mental disorder, he just does that." The man, every day, burns his hand in a fire. He has believed it's normal behaviour, yet it hurts like crazy and he's fed up of doing it. One day, one of his family can't take any more and screams, "WHY THE HELL MUST YOU BURN YOUR HAND?! IT MAKES NO SENSE!!" - suddenly they've had one too many. They've seen you killing yourself just a touch too many times and it becomes an outburst.

    You have to understand we put the people we love through a lot as they witness the things we do to ourselves - a somewhat selfish indulgence in killing ourselves slowly just so we don't have to face real world issues, so we have a preoccupation with something else to give us carte blanche, to absolve us, make us exempt from the criteria of normality.
    I know they care, I really do but that's why it hurt so much. They were so horrible. I couldn't take it and it led to an attempt. Which I don't think I'm allowed to talk about :/ the thing is I was trying to fix it, trying so hard to please them. I ate so much more than I usually do and it still wasn't good enough. It's just left me so confused and feeling more broken than ever


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Riku)
    I can't excuse your friends for what they said but they only said it because they care and they're confused. They don't know how to help and what they do know is going to be patchy and sensationalised at best. If you had never had ED but your friend suffered one, would you know what was up? How to change their mind or why they did the things they did? If it only it were that easy...
    The media likes extremes, not always the reality of shades of gray. So for Joe Public that can mean they understand an eating disorder as what it actually is in its final, most fatal stage. It should never go that far, warning signs are littered about long before that dark day. It's often difficult to tell the difference between a genuine cry for help and seeking attention. But watch out for the tendency to play the Boy Who Cried Wolf (by that I don't mean lie, but play the 'I'm sick!' card to absolve you of any responsibility. It's too easy to fall into, and the only way you can get better is to accept you want to change.

    Please don't give up. You'll fix this, and we're here. They may just ened some time to think, learn and understand. :hugs:
    I know they dont understand and I also know that I can't expect them to. The thing is I don't do that. They ask me to do something I do it because I don't want to hurt them. But it's hard and no matter how hard I try it isn't good enough. I think that they were under the impression if I went to a doctor everything would be fine. I think to a certain extent I even believed that they said it so many times. But now I know it's going to be a really long process.. I just cant get this across to them. They think it should be fixed by now. Because it isn't they are frustrated and label it attention seeking which ****ing hurts considering I never even told anyone until my best friend confronted me and then told the rest of the group because they 'had a right to know'. I just don't know what to do or how to handle it


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    Okay, your views on your family are totally skewed. I thought the way you do at one point, and my father in particular said some utterly abhorrent things to me about my illness, but it was all through frustration.

    For example, he shouted into my face, "Fine, kill yourself then, my son's dead anyway now" when he was drunk. That one statement crushed my soul, but simultaneously it gave me strength to realise just how far I'd pushed them. Now, many many moons have elapsed since then, and now I'm in strong recovery he continuously tells me how proud he is of me that I attempted to really battle this full-on. He reminds me every day that he tried everything from pussyfooting around me, to tough love, to full-on soul-destroying insults, to try to get me moving.

    Ever heard the phrase, "You never remember a decent day"? It refers to the phenomenon where humans are unable to be happy with being contented. Some people have varying degrees of it - unless it's absolute elation or utter turmoil, some people thrive on the extremes alone. They never hear, never care about anything that isn't an extreme. This is why we only tend to remember the truly extreme measures people take.

    So remember what they said to you because they did it out of extreme love, because you pushed them to a point of frustration where they could do nothing else, just as I did. I never remember them trying the OTHER measures because, as I said, none of those were quite as extreme - but they had been trying the entire time.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I'm really really struggling with just about everything and I'm miserable and lost and lonely and empty.

    Can't stop crying and just can't think anymore. Everyone keeps telling me to do what will make me happy but nothing seems like it will make me happy.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TotoMimo)
    Okay, your views on your family are totally skewed. I thought the way you do at one point, and my father in particular said some utterly abhorrent things to me about my illness, but it was all through frustration.

    For example, he shouted into my face, "Fine, kill yourself then, my son's dead anyway now" when he was drunk. That one statement crushed my soul, but simultaneously it gave me strength to realise just how far I'd pushed them. Now, many many moons have elapsed since then, and now I'm in strong recovery he continuously tells me how proud he is of me that I attempted to really battle this full-on. He reminds me every day that he tried everything from pussyfooting around me, to tough love, to full-on soul-destroying insults, to try to get me moving.

    Ever heard the phrase, "You never remember a decent day"? It refers to the phenomenon where humans are unable to be happy with being contented. Some people have varying degrees of it - unless it's absolute elation or utter turmoil, some people thrive on the extremes alone. They never hear, never care about anything that isn't an extreme. This is why we only tend to remember the truly extreme measures people take.

    So remember what they said to you because they did it out of extreme love, because you pushed them to a point of frustration where they could do nothing else, just as I did. I never remember them trying the OTHER measures because, as I said, none of those were quite as extreme - but they had been trying the entire time.
    I guess. I just don't know what to do or how to cope anymore


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    I think in a normal day I get between five and twenty messages from people that believe their situation is absolutely unique and yet they say the same thing - "I feel helpless."

    They specify how their situation is new and totally unfaltering. How nothing they do works, is good enough, can break their feeling of futility.

    And yet, this is the most common, the most notorious feeling of all with the ED, the feeling that you have no power to fight it.

    "I can't eat X because..."

    Wait. Before you whinge that you cannot consume whatever you cannot, whether it's a coffee, a double bacon cheeseburger or a small tablet - are you REALLY all that different from the swathes of other very valiant ED sufferers? No, you're not. But that's a sore pill to swallow, because your ED uses that as one of it's suckerpunches. The ED's criteria usually makes it sure that you are special in some way.

    Yet we are special for completely different ways, but ways we do not yet value, and CAN NOT value, until we beat the stupid, thoughtless, idiotic EDS we all have here.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    So I went away on holiday to Canada for 2 weeks with my family to visit relatives and I have to admit I was petrified by the prospect of what I might face. Because we were visiting family I would not be preparing my own food, I would probably not even have a choice of what we were eating, I would just be expected to eat what was given to me and enjoy it like any other normal person. This eventual lack of control was probably what scared me the most, not the fact that I may have to eat cheese covered Nachos or bowl after bowl of pasta day after day, it was the lack of control that I feared.

    I think for me personally and so many other ED sufferers it is simply control that we crave; we turn to our ED because we feel our lives are out of control in some way and we seem to believe that the ED will help us regain that control. So for me the challenge on the holiday was not to focus on what food I was eating or by how much the scale increased but forcing myself to lose that control.

    I am overjoyed to say that my holiday was one of the best I have had; I have not laughed so much in a long time. I did eat Nachos and Pasta but also simple salads; I ate what was placed in front of me and I was never happier. I did not gain 2 Stone in 2 Weeks, I did not faint with fear and neither did starve myself; I let myself lose that control and simply enjoy myself with my family.

    I feel that the ED has controlled me for so long and robbed me of so much; I now see that giving up that control was certainly a huge step I took towards recovery. I know for me it was extremely difficult to do and there was the odd time when I may have slipped into old ways but I survived at the end of it. So I would encourage any of you, even for a day, to try and challenge your ED by losing that control and try to just enjoy life.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: October 31, 2015
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.