Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Private schools should be banned? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should private schools be banned?
    Yes
    134
    21.65%
    No
    457
    73.83%
    Not Sure
    28
    4.52%

    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lightburns)
    Ee, I might have gone off a bit ranty there. Hit me quick, before I rant too much. You probably weren't meaning to start someone (i.e. me) off on one. sorry, internet does that to me sometimes. Lets all share cake.
    Lol you actually seemed fairly reasonable, which is why I said I'd edit my post - which I rarely (if ever do). But yes, you seem like a nice guy, so cake is indeed quite appropriate
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Lol you actually seemed fairly reasonable, which is why I said I'd edit my post - which I rarely (if ever do). But yes, you seem like a nice guy, so cake is indeed quite appropriate
    I'm glad you think so, the internet is so easily a way to pounce. I've just had to take a step back from a benefits discussion where I realised I was in the wrong, even though I had been a bit of an arse (not a complete one, but you know how you write something on the internet, and it sounds worse than you mean?). Maybe I should stop doing this and do the damn revision I am putting off. :P
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArcaneAnna)
    Unfortunatley if I were a parent and I knew I didn't have huge reserves of money - I'd rather not have a car and send the kids to privet school. Or work two jobs.
    same. would literally chop my own balls off and eat them for money if i had to (not sure how this would help tbh ... just an example. jackass maybe? dirty Sanchez? wouldn't really be 'you've been framed!' material i suppose)
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Acerbic)
    What's the cost to society of continually re-entrenched inequality, anyhow?
    yes, what is the cost? working class seem to hate toffs. toffs look down on working class. symbiotic relationship innit, toffs pay lots of taxes and in return get to use the working class as a vehicle for their snobbery.

    an immensely flawed argument i know... but both cultures do hate each other and love themselves, so why not leave them to it?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Sadly for youm, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights which has been borth signed and rattified by Britain as well as the European Union, disagrees.

    Part 3 Article 11:
    "education, including free universal primary education, generally available secondary education and equally accessible higher education. This should be directed to 'the full development of the human personality and the sense of its dignity', and enable all persons to participate effectively in society"

    You have every right to disagree with that, but as a signatory to its law, you have no right to contravene it. Shame buddy, you've now declared yourself on par with Saudi Arabia and Burma. Two of the only countries to reject the convention



    Lol, being stupid bad at spelling isn't an illness. You're just bad at spelling. Get over it.
    I do disagree with it. Whether or not it has been declared as a law doesn't change my view. You can legislate that it's a right to be able to shoot someone, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. People are given far too many rights in tis day and age, and it's bloody ridiculous. Why would that be a shame? Whilst I don't agree with Saudi Arabian law either, at least they actually have punishments for crime instead of "we'll let you off with a 12 month suspended sentence".

    Oh my God, you're so ignorant. Dyslexia is not just about being bad at spelling. Why don't you actually research the topic you're attempting to discuss? :rolleyes: Dyslexia also affects your ability to write, it can affect your reading and lots of things. For example, I can hardly read black off of white paper, because the letters swirl around. It also affects your co-ordination and the ability to differentiate between left and right. So like I said, before you comment on a topic, make sure you know what you're talking about you tool.


    Anyway think what you want, I get more time in exams, free equipment and DSA. You jelly? :awesome:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lightburns)
    I gave you a science journal article which did empirical testing, which is better than a news article, but whatever..

    I'm quite willing to say that dyslexia doesn't exist. I'm not well read on it, so I'll stay neutral on whether dyslexia exists outside reading difficulties.

    Julian Elliot has said "Amongst children who struggle to read, you find some with a high IQ, some in the middle and some with a low IQ", which is followed up by the journalist "The real tragedy of that misconception lies in the fact that children who are poor readers are too often assumed to be less capable: they are put into the lower teaching groups, given easier work at school, and are not intellectually challenged as they should be."
    (Source)

    The thing I feel dodgy about is you using the word "stupid", because it tends to refer to reasoning capabilities and IQ. However, if by "stupid" you were meaning bad spelling and nothing else, then it's a tactless choice of words, but not intentionally harmful..

    The baseline is that people can be highly successful, and intelligent, despite having severe reading difficulties.
    :facepalm2:

    Can people please understand dyslexia before commenting and pulling an article from google search?

    Dyslexia is not just about reading difficulties. I was reading books aimed for senior school children when I was 6, and was always ahead of my class in reading and verbal skills. Yet I'm dyslexic.

    The difficulties I have are to do with reading off of white paper (the letters move around, it's difficult to explain), handwriting, expressing things when handwriting, algebra (I can;t tell which way the letters and numbers are, e.g 3x-4a or 3a-x4), I see letters and numbers backwards as well as a variety of other difficulties I cba to write down. I don't have great difficulty reading, providing it's not on white paper.

    I do acknowledge you said you aren't well read on the subject, but don't just google an article and use it as fact, as it's a bit offensive.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adman32)
    A friend of mine comes from a relatively wealthy family and went to the same school as me up to last year. In September he left and enrolled in a private school. But I, and most people I know, would never be able to afford this.

    I know many on this forum are indeed from private schools, so please try and be neutral.

    Perhaps I'm too far on the left, but in my opinion noone should better opportunities simply because of parental wealth. All people should be born equal, and should find success with hard work and ability, not money.
    I thought left/right meant liberal and authoritarian instead of socialist/capitalist.:confused:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lily Academia)
    :yes:

    Just because someone goes to a private school doesn’t mean they’re rich. They might be, but I know an awful lot of people who aren’t - people who have parents that pay for them to go to that school instead of splashing out on holidays to Florida. I have a friend who is at private school who wouldn’t be there without a bursary; another who managed to get an academic scholarship. It’s up to the parents to decide whether they can afford it, how they can afford it, and how much more beneficial a private school will be to the achievement of their child. (And, whether the child itself wants to go in the first place of course!)

    For the record, I don’t go to a private school; I go to a pretty rubbish comprehensive. But my parents aren’t shelling out 10,000 a year to keep me there; I’ve got friends there; and I’m not failing all my subjects. I’m perfectly happy, and while sometimes I wish I could be somewhere that has better teachers, or more engaged students there are an equal amount of times I’m glad I’m where I’m at. There’s very little completion or cattiness, and I’m the one who pushes to do more work - it’s not enforced by my parents or teachers.

    At the end of the day - your school or financial background doesn’t define who you are or dictate whether or not you’re going to succeed in life. I don’t see any problem with private schools or any other type of school. For all those talking about ‘equality’ just be glad you have a chance to have a free education in the first place; thousands of other kids don’t.
    I agree. It's not like state schools are abominably atrocious institutions in which no one can succeed and that private schools are completely perfect in every way! In both types of school, you get good teachers and you get poor teachers!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Wow, someone's rude. Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn't mean you need to be an arse. Oh wait I forgot, this is TSR, where any deviation from the majority view = abuse and neg train. :rolleyes: In my opinion, education isn't a right in any way, shape or form.

    Dyslexia isn't non-existant you total and utter ignoramus, it's a learning difficulty. You can deny it's existance all you want, I'll still get my extra time in exams as well as free equipment and money. Make you mad?
    :facepalm2:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by firestar101)
    :facepalm2:
    Either quote me with a decent comment and join in the debate or don't bother quoting me at all. :rolleyes:
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    :facepalm2:

    Can people please understand dyslexia before commenting and pulling an article from google search?

    Dyslexia is not just about reading difficulties. I was reading books aimed for senior school children when I was 6, and was always ahead of my class in reading and verbal skills. Yet I'm dyslexic.

    The difficulties I have are to do with reading off of white paper (the letters move around, it's difficult to explain), handwriting, expressing things when handwriting, algebra (I can;t tell which way the letters and numbers are, e.g 3x-4a or 3a-x4), I see letters and numbers backwards as well as a variety of other difficulties I cba to write down. I don't have great difficulty reading, providing it's not on white paper.

    I do acknowledge you said you aren't well read on the subject, but don't just google an article and use it as fact, as it's a bit offensive.
    You need to look at the whole conversation. My use of that article is fully justified in context.

    jumpingjesusholycow was using a researcher named Julian Elliot to back up his points. I used a quote from Julian Elliot to show that even Julian Elliot believes that individuals with reading difficulties have normal IQs.

    I wasn't saying that the article was correct. I wasn't saying about separations between dyslexia and reading difficulties. I explicitly said that I was "neutral", which I had hoped would make this clear. Julian Elliot thinks that there is no separation, so of course a quote from him is going to be about reading difficulties. Elliot is not going to call it "dyslexia" because he doesn't think that there is a medical condition of dyslexia.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by lightburns)
    You need to look at the whole conversation. My use of that article is fully justified in context.

    jumpingjesusholycow was using a researcher named Julian Elliot to back up his points. I used a quite from Julian Elliot to show that even Julian Elliot believes that individuals with reading difficulties have normal IQs.

    I wasn't saying that the article was correct. I wasn't saying about separations between dyslexia and reading difficulties. I explicitly said that I was "neutral", which I had hoped would make this clear. Julian Elliot thinks that there is no separation, so of course a quote from him is going to be about reading difficulties. Elliot is not going to call it "dyslexia" because he doesn't think that there is a medical condition of dyslexia.

    Fair enough I didn't see him using that article in the first place, I just wanted to point out that dyslexia isn't just about reading difficulties at all.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by K the Failure)
    Get a bursary.
    This, all private schools give them. They shouldn't be banned they should have more bursaries because they don't have enough.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    But education is a privellage and not a human right.
    This is dodgy grounds in my opinion. In UK every child, no matter what their background, is given the right to go to school.

    To take away this right and make it a privilege is leaving the way open for continuation of any oppression.
    Look at how USA has a large poor black population. Now, if school wasn't a right, then it would be easier to keep them pressed down. They can't afford school = no school = continuation of cheap labour with the new generations having no ability to work hard to climb out of poverty.

    Now, I'm sure this wasn't what you were meaning. But then what you call a privilege would have no difference from what I call a right! If you think that all children should be assured a place in primary education, no matter who they were or where they come from, then you have the same views as I do. Tell me how we differ?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    If someone wants to do well, they will achieve it wherever they go.
    Absolutely. Not going to private school doesn't prevent you from becoming successful.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    People aren't equal, there will always be a heirarchy. Why pull the top down to the level of the bottom?
    Agree. Shouldn't the emphasis be on improving state education? How does banning high performing schools help anyone?

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    If we abolished them here, I'd simply send my child abroad, as I imagine many others would.
    Agree, wealthy people would just send their kids to an international boarding school, which are arguably even more "snobby" or "full of toffs" as people like to say

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    The class system will remain no matter what. There are always people who have more money. That's life. I don't see why some people have such an issue with it to be honest.
    Exactly. In this country, have the freedom to earn money and spend it as we choose. Money gives you choice and freedom.

    (Original post by .Ali.)
    You will probably grossly disagree with me though, because you seem quite left, ideologically speaking, and I'm rather right wing.
    I would consider myself more left than right, but even I agree with you.

    (Original post by Stefan1991)
    :facepalm:

    So you're argument is, because some people can't afford it... it should be banned?
    That makes no sense whatsoever.

    So instead of affording people opportunities and benefits which they are willing to pay for, you will force them to have fewer and worse opportunities in life, on the only basis that it is more equal? That is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.
    Totally agree.

    (Original post by PaulGee)
    This is a socialist viewpoint. We are all born equal but if you find yourself in a wealthier family then this can only go so far. Wealthy people tend to pay higher taxes and pay for the 'free' education that you and I got. Plus they pay extra to put their kids through private school, freeing up a place at regular school. What's bad about that!?

    In my case my family paid most of my university because of parental income. You might think of me as privileged. However I won my place at University fair and square and completed my university education without anyone bribing the lecturers.

    Also because my dad had to cough up my living money while there, he dictated what I studied. The course I really wanted to do I could not because he was too ignorant to understand what it is, and as he was paying the tab, made it a condition that I did not study that area.

    In contrast, a student from a low income family, being eligible to the student grant (as it was in the early 90s) ended up being able to choose any course they wished without such influence.

    Life is NOT about equality. Life is NOT fair. Live with it. If you're any good you'll be successful. Hardly any of the richest people were academic successes or went to private school. They had talent and knew how to use it. If you do, you should do the same. But don't go telling everyone that you think private schools should be banned just because you feel inferior to those attending.
    Good point
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by blue_shift86)
    i'm ex state comper and voted no. Like if u didn't have toff aka private schools u'd get these toffs in our state comps. Like that'd be nightmare init? **** em and let them go to their posh schools and leave us alone. That's the best way man. Leave system as it is. And those douches who want to go to private currently being in state comps....think hard before u go to the dark side. Private school peoples are arrogant, have head shoved so far up their arses they no nuffin about common people - you'll become a mini david cameron - i.e. an effing ****...or worse still...clegg...a ****ing two faced liar.

    The choice is yours. :rolleyes:
    Why does going to a private school automatically make them a toff, a douche or arrogant?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Sadly for youm, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights which has been borth signed and rattified by Britain as well as the European Union, disagrees.

    Part 3 Article 11:
    "education, including free universal primary education, generally available secondary education and equally accessible higher education. This should be directed to 'the full development of the human personality and the sense of its dignity', and enable all persons to participate effectively in society"

    You have every right to disagree with that, but as a signatory to its law, you have no right to contravene it. Shame buddy, you've now declared yourself on par with Saudi Arabia and Burma. Two of the only countries to reject the convention



    Lol, being stupid bad at spelling isn't an illness. You're just bad at spelling. Get over it.
    But it only says that secondary education should be "generally" available, not available to all, so according to the quote you supplied, it is a human right to receive free primary education and perhaps secondary education, but not necessarily.

    So she has not placed herself on par with such countries. You have not disproved her point that education (beyond primary education) is not a human right, by definition of human rights.

    In fact, she seems to understand the definitions of human rights better than you.

    Not that I agree that education shouldn't be a right. It should and thankfully in the UK everyone can get free education up to age 18, so it's not an issue for us.

    I dislike poor spelling too, but dyslexia is a real condition, no need to throw insults at people.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Personally, I think the tripartite system made so much more sense.
    That way if you were clever you were given a chance, regardless of if you had rich affluent parents.
    I think it is highly unfair how there are MANY clever working class children who just simply don't get half the chance not so bright middle class children get.
    Anyone agree?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by qwerty54321)
    Personally, I think the tripartite system made so much more sense.
    That way if you were clever you were given a chance, regardless of if you had rich affluent parents.
    I think it is highly unfair how there are MANY clever working class children who just simply don't get half the chance not so bright middle class children get.
    Anyone agree?
    What prevents them from getting great A Levels?
    Or from getting into a top university?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    I do disagree with it. Whether or not it has been declared as a law doesn't change my view. You can legislate that it's a right to be able to shoot someone, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. People are given far too many rights in tis day and age, and it's bloody ridiculous. Why would that be a shame? Whilst I don't agree with Saudi Arabian law either, at least they actually have punishments for crime instead of "we'll let you off with a 12 month suspended sentence".

    Oh my God, you're so ignorant. Dyslexia is not just about being bad at spelling. Why don't you actually research the topic you're attempting to discuss? :rolleyes: Dyslexia also affects your ability to write, it can affect your reading and lots of things. For example, I can hardly read black off of white paper, because the letters swirl around. It also affects your co-ordination and the ability to differentiate between left and right. So like I said, before you comment on a topic, make sure you know what you're talking about you tool.


    Anyway think what you want, I get more time in exams, free equipment and DSA. You jelly? :awesome:
    I'm sorry to butt in here and I will try to make this sound as in-offencive as possible.

    But I also do not believe in such a medical conditioin as dyslexia.

    And funnily enough - the % of dyslexic children and adults in western soceity is MUCH HIGHER than in the east eg uk versus russia.

    Let me tell you why - because when they see that a child is struggling at school with any of the literary tasks that you would class under dyslexia, they take them aside and make sure that special attentioin and care is given to help them catch up to everyone else.

    Do you know why this is possible? Because 'dyslexia' is not an actual condition, it's just that the childs brain is working MUCH faster that the motor control - hence you're thinking faster thatn you can act. All it need is practice, practice and more practice.

    When I was younger, and I can still remember this, I had exactly the same problem as you mentioned. Along with not being able to read or write until quite a late age. In the uk I would have been classed as severely dyslexic. In russia I was given an extra set of lessons and now I'm absolutley fine, you'd not be able to tell at all.

    Dyslexia is the condition resulting from the dire situation english education is in.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.