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Private schools should be banned? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should private schools be banned?
    Yes
    134
    21.65%
    No
    457
    73.83%
    Not Sure
    28
    4.52%

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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    You haven't answered my post? I thought you enjoyed debate.

    :sad:
    haha yeah yeah sorry, i have a lot to say; will reply when i have a minute!
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    It's hard to tell I mean so many kids are gifted and they just can't afford to get that best possible education and some other kids are not as smart but just because they are from a rich background they simply afford private school and get into oxbridge in the end which doesn't seem that fair but if you think about it it's like if you're not happy with state schools maybe the program is too slow and teachers don't care about you and you need that focus from teachers go for a private school, teachers will respect you and help you and motivate you all they way plus not every single kid who went to a private school is a jerk
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    (Original post by Acerbic)
    1) That's like a christian trying to prove the existence of god by citing the bible. It isn't evidence, nor is it historical precedent.
    2) America has free universal education (up to high school, anyhow)
    3) America is a corporatist state
    1) How? The only reason America has been successful as it is is because of it's free market (comparatively). It has long been established that a competitive market will produce higher quality goods at lower prices. You don't agree?

    2) America does have free universal education until high school, you are correct. Your point? The problem is the same: public education isn't as good as private education.

    3) I'm not sure you know what a "corporatist state" is, so can you tell me what you think it is? Or better yet, tell me what you are trying to get at.
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    (Original post by cometgirl)
    Why does this subject cause such a commotion?
    If you can afford it, do it.
    End of.
    Because people think that every person deserves to have the exact same life as others, and can't get over the fact that life is not "fair". The logical argument after this would be "Why do some people have more money than others? Should we ban rich people? Why should they get anything better than others?" The sad thing is that people either don't see to this end, or really think that this is the best thing for the world.
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I wouldn't say ban the schools. I'd suggest that while students attend these schools - teach them the value of money.
    I don't think it's fair to say that most private school pupils don't understand the value of money. I go to a private school and I know how hard my parents have worked to enable me to go there - I would say I actually understand the value of money more for having gone to a private school than I would have otherwise.
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I wouldn't say ban the schools. I'd suggest that while students attend these schools - teach them the value of money.
    What makes you think students who attend private schools don't know the value of money?


    (Original post by Adman32)
    Can everyone stop trying to pretend those who send their children to private schools are of normal wealth? Ok, in a few cases parents may live a simple life to afford sending their children to private schools.

    In the vast majority of cases however, those who go to private schools do not need to put aside holidays to be able to afford it. They send their children to private schools because they have lots of money lying about.
    The average salary in the UK is £26, 961 according to http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/s...s/article.aspx

    Given that private schools start from £10k per year (maybe less if you get a scholarship or bursary), you do not need to be super rich to send a child to private school. You'd need to be on an above average salary and manage your money very tightly, but having tons of money lying around is not a prerequisite to sending a child to private school.

    Please stop stereotyping people who attend private schools. Yes, some are very wealthy, but not all. Most people I went to school with did not have rich parents, both parents worked in a job close to the average salary and their families were very careful with money.
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    Should they be banned? No.
    A good parent provides for their child/children so that their children can have (potentially) a better life than them or at least all the opportunities avaliable to them.
    My parents have worked hard all their adult lives and still do, and because of that both myself and my brothere were able to attend a private school and my brother went to university.
    I think that Private schools are important because they help children and youngsters achieve all that they could achieve. And some of them are specialised, for example for children with special needs.
    Because of schools like that kids might achieve when they otherwise could have struggled.

    To take away private schools would be insane.
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    (Original post by ACC13)
    wow, someone talking sense
    Nice to see someone who agrees with me Its amazing the amount of people who would rather discuss the ridiculous and divisive motion of banning Private Schools. Rather than how state schools could be made better. Oh yeah i think i know why..... who starts a "should private schools be banned" will get loads of people really angry and politically charged !!
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    (Original post by lizzie-w)
    I don't think it's fair to say that most private school pupils don't understand the value of money. I go to a private school and I know how hard my parents have worked to enable me to go there - I would say I actually understand the value of money more for having gone to a private school than I would have otherwise.
    I guess i'm just following the stereotypes here that private school students look down on kids who don't have as much money as them. I went to a private college - not sure if it's the same thing but hey..
    (Original post by No Future)
    What makes you think students who attend private schools don't know the value of money?




    The average salary in the UK is £26, 961 according to http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/s...s/article.aspx

    Given that private schools start from £10k per year (maybe less if you get a scholarship or bursary), you do not need to be super rich to send a child to private school. You'd need to be on an above average salary and manage your money very tightly, but having tons of money lying around is not a prerequisite to sending a child to private school.

    Please stop stereotyping people who attend private schools. Yes, some are very wealthy, but not all. Most people I went to school with did not have rich parents, both parents worked in a job close to the average salary and their families were very careful with money.
    Well, do they? Might as well educate me while you can.
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    (Original post by Advanced Subsidiary)
    I guess i'm just following the stereotypes here that private school students look down on kids who don't have as much money as them. I went to a private college - not sure if it's the same thing but hey..


    Well, do they? Might as well educate me while you can.
    Surely it depends on the child and how their parents bring them up.

    It is entirely possible that the child is spoiled and does not know the value of money (some children are just brought up that way), but it it also entirely possible that the parents educate the child as to the value of money, that money is hard to earn, you should spend your money carefully and the fact that the parents sacrifice their disposable income to send the child to private school is a good example of this. If you want to send your child to the best possible school, you need to work hard, save and spend carefully.

    The child may have a part time job and be encouraged to save and may have to pay for certain things themselves so they learn firsthand that money is hard to earn.

    Why should going to a private school mean you don't know the value of money?

    Going to a private school doesn't mean:

    1) Your family is rich
    2) You family spoils you/gives you money/spends lots of money on you (aside from schooling)
    3) You don't learn the value of money
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    (Original post by No Future)
    Surely it depends on the child and how their parents bring them up.

    It is entirely possible that the child is spoiled and does not know the value of money (some children are just brought up that way), but it it also entirely possible that the parents educate the child as to the value of money, that money is hard to earn, you should spend your money carefully and the fact that the parents sacrifice their disposable income to send the child to private school is a good example of this. If you want to send your child to the best possible school, you need to work hard, save and spend carefully.

    The child may have a part time job and be encouraged to save and may have to pay for certain things themselves so they learn firsthand that money is hard to earn.

    Why should going to a private school mean you don't know the value of money?

    Going to a private school doesn't mean:

    1) Your family is rich
    2) You family spoils you/gives you money/spends lots of money on you (aside from schooling)
    3) You don't learn the value of money
    Fair enough I can accept that. Thanks, I guess I never saw it this way.
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    (Original post by Iorek)
    NO it shouldn't be banned... it's my business if I want to use my money to send my kids to private schools. It's my business if I choose to have my kids not mix with lower classed left leaning scums

    Life ain't fair, you just get used to it and make the best of it.
    That's not very neutral...
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    (Original post by No Future)
    What makes you think students who attend private schools don't know the value of money?




    The average salary in the UK is £26, 961 according to http://career-advice.monster.co.uk/s...s/article.aspx

    Given that private schools start from £10k per year (maybe less if you get a scholarship or bursary), you do not need to be super rich to send a child to private school. You'd need to be on an above average salary and manage your money very tightly, but having tons of money lying around is not a prerequisite to sending a child to private school.

    Please stop stereotyping people who attend private schools. Yes, some are very wealthy, but not all. Most people I went to school with did not have rich parents, both parents worked in a job close to the average salary and their families were very careful with money.
    The lowest ones are 10k, with most costing at least 12k. The average salary is little over 22k as £26,000 includes tax, leaving you with £10,000. Some who attend private schools are careful with money like you say. But private schools were made for those who are better off, and most people still cannot afford private schools no matter how careful they are with their money.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...United_Kingdom
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    'It's my right as a parent to provide a decent education for my children.' So your argument is effectively my right as a parent, is more important than a child’s right to an equal education.

    It’s not like you’ve earned that money by working harder than parents of the ‘working class’ children. Your fortune (or their lack of) is just a result of your more privileged upbringing, your access to a better education and social environment has ensured you’ve earned more money. Does that mean your children deserve a better education than those of parents who have been raised in comparatively detrimental conditions? Is the accident of birth a legitimate reason for allowing children a better education?

    ‘But I’d just educate them with tutors’. Fine, in a capitalist state, things will never be fair. But if the students are competing together, making friends with each other. Social mobility and equal opportunities would be vastly improved.
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    (Original post by IFondledAGibbon)
    'It's my right as a parent to provide a decent education for my children.' So your argument is effectively my right as a parent, is more important than a child’s right to an equal education.

    It’s not like you’ve earned that money by working harder than parents of the ‘working class’ children. Your fortune (or their lack of) is just a result of your more privileged upbringing, your access to a better education and social environment has ensured you’ve earned more money. Does that mean your children deserve a better education than those of parents who have been raised in comparatively detrimental conditions? Is the accident of birth a legitimate reason for allowing children a better education?

    ‘But I’d just educate them with tutors’. Fine, in a capitalist state, things will never be fair. But if the students are competing together, making friends with each other. Social mobility and equal opportunities would be vastly improved.
    Spot on.

    Earning three times as much as someone else does not mean you work three times as hard.

    Like a previous post said, private education is not a result of an unfair world, but rather a cause.
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    (Original post by Adman32)
    A friend of mine comes from a relatively wealthy family and went to the same school as me up to last year. In September he left and enrolled in a private school. But I, and most people I know, would never be able to afford this.

    I know many on this forum are indeed from private schools, so please try and be neutral.

    Perhaps I'm too far on the left, but in my opinion noone should better opportunities simply because of parental wealth. All people should be born equal, and should find success with hard work and ability, not money.
    I think you're way too left!!! Everyone should be able to make a choice.
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    I don't know if people are appreciating the hugely unnecessary gulf that the existence of private school creates in education. We can't all have the exact same life chances and opportunities, like for instance some state schools are better than others, but I don't see why we can't improve the state resources we already have rather than have private schools, even though this would of course be impossible now as private schools are very much separated from government funding.

    I do think private schools are unfair and though they aren't going to be banned I certainly would not send my children to one on principle.
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    what do you realistically believe banning private schools would achieve? after all you get what you pay for, some can afford it and others can't it doesn't necessarily mean that they are in a better situation, money isn't quite everything.
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    And here we have an 18-page example of quite how judgemental people can be. If you went to private/public school, it does not necessarily mean that you are stuck up, impossibly rich, have no idea of money, or have the stuff 'lying around'. Equally, if you attend(ed) a state school, it does not mean that you are poor or stupid. Some people actually send their children to state schools despite being able to afford 'better'. Personally, my private school worked for me, as I need the competitive, pushy atmosphere. I have friends at both ends of the state school spectrum: one who went to a decent state school and flunked out at GCSE level because the teaching sucked and he wasn't helped at all; the other one went to one of the worst state schools in England, now closed down, and got some of the highest GCSE and A level results in the country.

    The entire post is just people taking sides and making misguided assumptions about those in the opposite system. Should they be banned? No. Thi would be in the interests of equality, yes, but not suited to the economy, and there is not always a benefit in equality. Many students go to private/public schools on scholarships and bursaries, and many who could afford private school go to state. Yes, there are schools that charge unimaginable fees and therefore are only available to a specific group of students, but this doesn't automatically mean a student will come out of the system with good results. For anyone who still doesn't get it, look at the annual league tables, and look at this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...l-ranking.html

    Then, move on and ignore this stupid debate
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    (Original post by Adman32)
    A friend of mine comes from a relatively wealthy family and went to the same school as me up to last year. In September he left and enrolled in a private school. But I, and most people I know, would never be able to afford this.

    I know many on this forum are indeed from private schools, so please try and be neutral.

    Perhaps I'm too far on the left, but in my opinion noone should better opportunities simply because of parental wealth. All people should be born equal, and should find success with hard work and ability, not money.
    I go to a private school on a bursary, and I think it comes down to this:

    Private schools are basically indefensible morally. It's simply wrong that factors completely outside a pupil's control can have such a dramatic effect on their lives, and I think that if I were speaking on entirely idealistic grounds I would say 'yes'.

    However, the elephant in the room, and the reason I still go to a private school, is the vast disparity of the quality of education offered by most private and many state schools. One of my best friends goes to the state school that I would have gone to had I not won a bursary, and from what I heard it's somewhat dire: they maintain that a 'pass' (that is, a grade C or above) at GCSE, for example, is all anyone should ever want or need, in an utterly transparent grab for league tables results.

    There's also the fact that in state schools teachers have to keep 'up to date' with the latest and absurdest educational fads. For instance, instead of learning History, RS, IT, and one or two other subjects that slip my mind, my younger brother, who also goes to this school, has lessons in an extremely patronising and stultifying subject called, somewhat ominously, 'Core', as part of the school's ridiculous 'Learning to Learn' strategy which seems to be an attempt to get its lowest-achieving kids up to the level that they should have been at by the end of Year 6.

    The recurring theme whenever he tells me about how school is going for him is one of catering to the lowest denominator without attempting to stretch anyone who shows a modicum of intellect or ability. For instance, while my brother is very keen on German, he wouldn't be able to study it at University if he wanted because the school doesn't actually offer German, or any other modern foreign languages, at A Level - though it does, of course, have a cornucopia of BTECs in Hairdressing and Social Care on offer.

    So, while I think private schools are immoral and indefensible, I really don't fancy the idea of even more pupils being put into the hands of the government.

    (I realise I have been pretty brutal about state schools in this post - what I know is, of course, based entirely on anecdotal evidence from just one school, and I'm sure that there are better and worse schools.)
 
 
 
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