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    So just been researching the ol' AV in prep for May. Came across these videos. Thoughts?

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CGPGrey#p/u/2/s7tWHJfhiyo
    http://www.youtube.com/user/CGPGrey#p/u/1/3Y3jE3B8HsE
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    (Original post by Quadratic)
    So just been researching the ol' AV in prep for May. Came across these videos. Thoughts?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWH...ature=youtu.be
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE...ature=youtu.be
    They don't work.
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    (Original post by Komakino)
    They don't work.
    Ah my bad, I didn't think to test them! One sec, I'll get the right links up Thank you
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    Glad somebody explained them with pictures and animals, I'd never understand otherwise...
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    The countries that have AV don't want it anymore. I hope it doesnt happen because i won't vote or i'll just put one choice in on purpose.
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    I have the admit, those videos swayed me a bit. Now I can't make up my mind on how I will vote. Thank you. :P
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    (Original post by The_Great_One)
    The countries that have AV don't want it anymore. I hope it doesnt happen because i won't vote or i'll just put one choice in on purpose.
    So basically if AV comes in you won't assert your full democratic right? You'll instead protest through boycotting; basically throwing a tantrum. Real mature

    Tbh if you have that attitude, I'm glad you won't be voting.
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    (Original post by The_Great_One)
    The countries that have AV don't want it anymore. I hope it doesnt happen because i won't vote or i'll just put one choice in on purpose.
    You mean aside from Australia - the only major country of comparable size that uses AV. They're quite happy with it.
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    What's the beef with AV then? It sounds a lot fairer than FPTP.
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    (Original post by dunnicare)
    What's the beef with AV then? It sounds a lot fairer than FPTP.
    Leaning on an open door my friend. It's not a perfect system, but its a lot better than FPTP
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    (Original post by Quadratic)
    Leaning on an open door my friend. It's not a perfect system, but its a lot better than FPTP
    hmmmmm.....I'll look the basics of them.......
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    It's not, it's basically meaningless. If anything it'll be less proportionate than FPTP. Vote 'no' to hurt the coalition.
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    (Original post by creak)
    It's not, it's basically meaningless. If anything it'll be less proportionate than FPTP. Vote 'no' to hurt the coalition.
    To hurt the coalition? :') Most of the coalition, i.e. the Tories are voting no. It won't hurt the coalition at all!

    Oh and please explain your reasoning on how it'll be less proportionate?
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    How about my video - does it teach people new stuff on AV?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Fn-v23soQ
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    You mean aside from Australia - the only major country of comparable size that uses AV. They're quite happy with it.
    Only after having to make voting compulsory mind.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    You mean aside from Australia - the only major country of comparable size that uses AV. They're quite happy with it.
    I thought the majority of Australians wanted FPTP? I'm sure I've read that poll and it's quite damning, I'll be voting yes but that's the main thing hurting AV I think.

    With regards to the videos, I've watched the first one, it's not very good. The guy talks waaaaay too fast and Problem 2 nullifies Problem 1 as far as I can see.

    The Yes campaign should just make their appeals as simple as possible (it really isn't that complicated) and let the public decide for themselves. Hopefully they will see it is fundamentally better.
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    (Original post by Quadratic)
    To hurt the coalition? :') Most of the coalition, i.e. the Tories are voting no. It won't hurt the coalition at all!

    Oh and please explain your reasoning on how it'll be less proportionate?
    The onus is really on those advocating a change to prove how their system will be better than the current one. If you can actually show how party representation (especially minority party representation) will increase under AV though I'm all ears- because as it stands, it's accepted that AV is no more or even less proportional than FPTP (p. 15). They're both as useless as each other.

    Clegg wants this referendum to pass, badly. If it fails the LibDems will have taken nothing from coalition, and he'll need something to placate the party after the trouncing they're about to receive in the local elections, as a direct result of his involvement in this government. There are fractures between the LibDems and the Tories within the coalition, between the LD leadership and its members and Councillors, between the party and the wider public, and in the consciences of the LD careerists. A 'no' vote hammers the wedge in deeper, until we start to see things crack.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    You mean aside from Australia - the only major country of comparable size that uses AV. They're quite happy with it.
    Well, their was a recent poll conducted which showed that a majority were unsatisfied and wanted to return to FPTP. However, I think its results are not to be trusted given the recent events.
    Firstly, the recession and austerity measures. Secondly, the controversy surrounding Julia Goddard (party infighting). Thirdly, the messiness of the coalition.
    Basically when times are tough people reminisce about times when things were more stable.
    If another poll were conducted in 5 years it would be more legitimate.
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    (Original post by creak)
    The onus is really on those advocating a change to prove how their system will be better than the current one. If you can actually show how party representation (especially minority party representation) will increase under AV though I'm all ears- because as it stands, it's accepted that AV is no more or even less proportional than FPTP (p. 15). They're both as useless as each other.

    Clegg wants this referendum to pass, badly. If it fails the LibDems will have taken nothing from coalition, and he'll need something to placate the party after the trouncing they're about to receive in the local elections, as a direct result of his involvement in this government. There are fractures between the LibDems and the Tories within the coalition, between the LD leadership and its members and Councillors, between the party and the wider public, and in the consciences of the LD careerists. A 'no' vote hammers the wedge in deeper, until we start to see things crack.
    Certainly it looks like minority representation will decrease if anything. Ukip's support must be based on the premise that many old-school Tories are dissatisfied with the leadership's Pro-Euro stance, such that in some constituencies then can win a seat. Similarly with the Greens, that some of the progressive Labourites will be dissatisfied with the last government, and would've turned to the Lib Dems but now distrust them, so the Green party is the only party left.
    The BNP however are not sufficiently established to be taken too seriously, and their opposition to AV demonstrates that they know they won't win enough votes to get anything out of it.

    I don't think the Lib Dem's have taken nothing from the coalition, they've moderated some of the governments policies. However, the rejection of AV will hurt them personally as they would probably win more seats with it, and it will also make them look silly as a referendum was the dealbreaker in negotiations.
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    (Original post by LethalBizzle)
    I thought the majority of Australians wanted FPTP? I'm sure I've read that poll and it's quite damning, I'll be voting yes but that's the main thing hurting AV I think.

    With regards to the videos, I've watched the first one, it's not very good. The guy talks waaaaay too fast and Problem 2 nullifies Problem 1 as far as I can see.

    The Yes campaign should just make their appeals as simple as possible (it really isn't that complicated) and let the public decide for themselves. Hopefully they will see it is fundamentally better.
    I don't see how it's 'fundamentally' better, I can see it's slightly better, as it dampens the trend of tactical voting (although doesn't eradicate it), and it offers promise of ending the jobs for life culture (although whether it will turn out that way is less clear).
    One of the principle un-doings however, is that it isn't mandatory to vote for more than one candidate, thus potentially someone could win with less than 50% of the vote. There's little point of having a preferential system if people by and large won't use it, and there's some evidence to suggest many people won't bother to rank candidates.
 
 
 
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