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Is David Cameron right that mass immigration has damaged communities? watch

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    Attitudes towards immigration aren't that healthy in my opinion. Immigration may have damaged communities, but it's not necessarily the 'immigrants' fault.

    I've always been pro multiculturalism, and I always will be. It just needs to be handled better.
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    (Original post by ItsaNameAndIUseIt)
    Attitudes towards immigration aren't that healthy in my opinion. Immigration may have damaged communities, but it's not necessarily the 'immigrants' fault.

    I've always been pro multiculturalism, and I always will be. It just needs to be handled better.
    I am pro European-multiculturalism. Third world culture should not be celebrated, it should be discouraged through integration.
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    I'm one of those lucky ****ers who's never lived in a particularly poor or 'mixed' community, never been jacked, never seen someone shot up, never had me girl or me job nicked by someone called Pavel, never wondered if the neighbours are cooking up a fresh batch of bombs, never been rampaged by a small army of 'YOOTS' on bikes..

    ..mind you some Somali kid did once tell me to give him my bike but I got on and rode off before the little fecker could catch me - anyway, the point is, I personally have never really been adversely affected by our nation's lack of any real immigration policy.. though I did take the Piccadilly Line tube the day before a tube train blew up on 7/7 so now I think about it I could well have been rather seriously adversely affected

    Anyway, asides aside, unlike most of the tolerant, white middle class kids in positions like mine, who are taught that multiculturalism/immigration etc are not just super-fantastic but actually necessary to make the world go round.. I can see why people are standing up and saying enough is enough. Unchecked immigration and illconsidered/mismanaged settlement have created immense sociological pressure, directly (through 'social stress' arising through such issues as segregation/gangs) and indirectly through pressure on markets and various 'services'

    ‘Social stress’ e.g. indigenous identity representation issues arise where cultural heterogeneity clashes with homogeneity (or vica versa) and may be tied to the disjunction between the different realms of globalisation: social, political and economic. In our example there is an economic argument for immigrant labour* determined by the market vs. the social argument for mitigation leads to a divided political realm

    Fortunately it only appears to be the Liberals who still have their head in the sand on this'n - however it does concern me that the Tories are merely electioneering, trying to steer people away from fringe parties but will actually end up doing **** all about what is unfortunately proving to be a deleterious trend on a number of levels

    * This rather laboured idea *if you'll pardon the pun* that our prosperity stems from immigrant labour
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    (Original post by effofex)
    The PVV are still nowhere near the largest party. They receive relatively little support in Amsterdam. As a migrant (allochtoon / buitlander / vreemdelinger) I have never personally faced any hostility from any of their canvassers (in fact, I've never even seen one). My Dutch colleagues and acquaintances don't even seem to care that I am very far from fluency in their language either. We don't really have a problem with segregation here either.
    That's anecdotal though, isn't it? You don't have an omnipotent presence in Amsterdam or the Netherlands, so you are only going by your own experiences.
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    Personally I'm pro the Melting Pot model over the Political Multiculturalism Model... although some people use the second term when they mean the first but c'est la vie! On David Cameron, I am inclined to say he is correct although I blame this more on a failure of government policy rather than the immigrants themselves.
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    (Original post by Fusilero)
    Personally I'm pro the Melting Pot model over the Political Multiculturalism Model... although some people use the second term when they mean the first but c'est la vie! On David Cameron, I am inclined to say he is correct although I blame this more on a failure of government policy rather than the immigrants themselves
    Melting Pot Model = uniculturalism?

    I'd blame it on both personally (not that I like playing the blame game too much, prefer to talk in terms of issues and solutions).. I've met some sound immigrants who've come from sheer adversity and barely spoken any English but have grafted like the best of us.. kind of undermines the 'oh it can't be helped' aka 'GovT is solely to blame' argument. It's not racist to not be impressed by people who come over here and take the piss - I think a lot of people just fear being associated with groups like the BNP if they posit such views
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    have you been to london....where it is easy to be able to live your entire life in the city and not have to speak a word of english if you live in certain parts...

    there are parts where not only are white people almost a non-entity, but in which almost everything in that area is in a different language to english and most of the people don't even bother/can't speak it....
    I presume you mean Southall?
    I have a friend in Southall, and I spent about a week staying there. I noticed two things on a bus journey one day:

    1) I'm the only white person on this bus
    2) Nobody's batting an eyelid at statement one.

    As far as I was concerned, everyone was just going about their daily business. I felt safe (safer than I did in central London, although that's understandable because it's a tourist trap).
    I was able to order fast food in English. The people around me were speaking English, as well as their own languages -it wasn't a case of the area being an exclave of the Indian subcontinent. Where there were signs written in another language, the English was also clearly visible.
    Clearly you're basing your views on what you've read in the Daily Mail or another such tabloid. If you've actually experienced these places, you'd come to realise that it's not a problem.
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    (Original post by JayTeeKay)
    I presume you mean Southall?
    I have a friend in Southall, and I spent about a week staying there. I noticed two things on a bus journey one day:

    1) I'm the only white person on this bus
    2) Nobody's batting an eyelid at statement one.

    As far as I was concerned, everyone was just going about their daily business. I felt safe (safer than I did in central London, although that's understandable because it's a tourist trap).
    I was able to order fast food in English. The people around me were speaking English, as well as their own languages -it wasn't a case of the area being an exclave of the Indian subcontinent. Where there were signs written in another language, the English was also clearly visible.
    Clearly you're basing your views on what you've read in the Daily Mail or another such tabloid. If you've actually experienced these places, you'd come to realise that it's not a problem.
    southall is only one of the places I'm referring to....

    I don't read trash like the daily mail...I read the Times....

    nor did I mention anything to do with Indians....

    and I have been to all the places I have mentioned.....I'm not white btw....
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    (Original post by infernalcradle)
    southall is only one of the places I'm referring to....

    I don't read trash like the daily mail...I read the Times....

    nor did I mention anything to do with Indians....

    and I have been to all the places I have mentioned.....I'm not white btw....
    I didn't say you were white.
    I didn't say you said anything to do with Indians. I didn't say anything about Indians. I mentioned the Indian subcontinent.
    In my experience it's not a problem. The whole "none of 'em speak English" argument just seems to be nationalist rhetoric as far as I'm concerned. I am yet to feel like a foreigner in my own country, and I doubt that many of the people against immigration have felt that way, even if they use it as an argument against immigration.
    That's my view anyway.
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    (Original post by OBAG09L)
    I don't know how anyone could put up with that. I'd struggle not to go all BNP up in their face if that was my experience of immigrants.

    Our society should never tolerate those kind of people.
    (Original post by dan9)
    haha! I think you should re-read this and tell me exactly what is good about anything you just stated. The idea of immigration isn't to be able to walk down the road and suddenly be in an asian "country" where people spit at you and call you white scum. I honestly find it despicable that you could come to another country to live and then call the nationals scum.
    (Original post by Hamesh)
    You're kind-hearted. I doubt I would have the same compassion if someone did that to me!
    Didn't say there was anything good about it. I was explaining what it is like.
    I don't mind, because in reality the probability is that they're only like that because they're scared of being hated for the colour of their skin. It's not pleasant, but it is something I can understand. Also, many of the people living there are second generation immigrants; their parents who moved here are mellow and expect to be out casted to some degree, but as they were born here they almost have an automatic chip on their shoulder that they're treated differently.

    (Original post by baldwin123)
    Well, this is one of the most depressing things Ive ever heard. A town in Britain where the best option for survival is to remain a prisoner of you're own home (unless of course you happen to be unlucky enough to live in the wrong area, in which case you will be the victim of severe abuse and bullying). It dosen't really get much worse than that does it.

    Oh dear.
    I think you totally misunderstood. Noone's "a prisoner in their own home" - there are very active communities and people get on with every day life just like elsewhere, apart from they largely ignore the other race. I even said that people living in densely Asian areas are always out talking to their neighbours. I didn't say there was anything actively right with it - I don't think there is - But i wouldn't say that immigration has destroyed our communities because there are two thriving communities, the only drawback is that they don't integrate. Also, I never mentioned that anyone was the victim of 'severe abuse and bullying' if they lived in the wrong area. Like I say - they mostly ignore each other, but if I as a white person knock on certain doors, a small number of people who answer won't be happy to see a white person there, probably for reasons I mentioned above.

    (Original post by storna)
    Sorry, but in what world is racial segregation on the lines you describe not a bad thing?

    What if every town and city replicated Blackburn and played host to two large, parallel racial communities? You don't think this would cause problems in the long-run?
    (Original post by Tnetinbum)
    You don't think it's a bad thing? From what you describe, it sounds nothing but bad. Multiculturalists envision a world where everyone is integrated and gets along holding hands singing kumbayah (slight exaggeration but you get the picture). I'm not sure segregated communities and people spitting at you calling you "white/asian scum" isn't what they had in mind.
    I'm not saying it would work everywhere. I'm saying in Blackburn, it's not an overly negative thing. Just down the road in Preston and Burnley you have a lot of race riots and hatred, people being beaten up because of the colour of their skin. In Blackburn, there are a lot of working class people who dislike people of the other race, but everyone ignores each other and gets on with it. Even when the EDL came to town for a march, everything was quite vanilla and peaceful. Maybe I should have said that comparatively, it's not that bad.
    And like I said in my post, people calling each other white scum, its the minority. You get some people like that, whether it be because of a chip on their shoulder or a total lack of understanding, but you get a lot of white people who are just the same.

    Working on the census, one of the most common questions that I've been asked by white people is "and do the simbies/packies/cameljockies have to fill them out too?" (sorry if me repeating that has offended anyone) and that sort of attitude isn't limited to Blackburn, that's the way a lot of working class people in Lancashire feel (sorry again for my limited knowledge, but I've only ever lived in Lancashire) - they feel victimised in their own country, like they can't talk about immigration being bad without being arrested for being a racist, and that Asian people and people from other ethnic minorities are "invincible" because they can hide behind race whenever a requirement or allegation is made of them.
    I dunno, to me, keeping your ignorant and stupid views to yourself seems better than broadcasting them and causing more upset than needed, compared to being violent or hurtful.

    Life isn't terrible in Blackburn at all really, everyone just keeps to their own kind in the most part. Some young people (although I dislike saying it, it's mainly the more educated/smarter ones) are totally different and treat people of the other race no different; its mainly amoungst undereducated young people and adults that this is happening.
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    I sit in a class, i'm the only white person. I listen to these 1 gen immigrants talk about setting up a fake marriage from india, setting up claims for job seekers whilst in education, talk about how **** our country is, talk about past wars as though that gives them justification in their current actions.

    Am i racist? i honestly dont know. I deffo don't give a toss what colour skin someone has. but do i make judgements based on the country they come from before i get to know someone? i think i kinda do. But its based on my experiences, which is a human thing to do.

    So am i racist?
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    (Original post by JayTeeKay)
    I didn't say you were white.
    I didn't say you said anything to do with Indians. I didn't say anything about Indians. I mentioned the Indian subcontinent.
    In my experience it's not a problem. The whole "none of 'em speak English" argument just seems to be nationalist rhetoric as far as I'm concerned. I am yet to feel like a foreigner in my own country, and I doubt that many of the people against immigration have felt that way, even if they use it as an argument against immigration.
    That's my view anyway.
    Seriously? come to london. Seriously. Walk down watford high street and tell me you don't feel like the odd one out. haha.
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    (Original post by barrett1987)
    Seriously? come to london. Seriously. Walk down watford high street and tell me you don't feel like the odd one out. haha.
    As I said. I was the only White person on the bus I was on in Southall, and I felt very comfortable- more so than I do on the busses in my hometown, which is something like 98% White.
    Sometimes I feel I'm the odd one out, as I appear to be surrounded by morons.
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    If ever there was a time to take a more prudent view of immigration, then now is that time. I'm speaking from an economic perspective with 2.5m unemployed on benefits - there's obviously a preference for a benefit seeker finding xyz job over a new arrival, all else equal.

    What does my nut in is the amount of scapegoating levelled at immigrants, particularly amongst lazy scummy tossers who happen to be British.
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    (Original post by Milk <3)
    do you go out with muslims at the weekend, clubbing, holidays etc?
    why is it a a negative thing that Muslims don't go out clubbing? You do know what clubbing is like, it's not something to promote!!! Now even our decision not to go to such a place is badly looked upon! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by barrett1987)
    I sit in a class, i'm the only white person. I listen to these 1 gen immigrants talk about setting up a fake marriage from india, setting up claims for job seekers whilst in education, talk about how **** our country is, talk about past wars as though that gives them justification in their current actions.

    Am i racist? i honestly dont know. I deffo don't give a toss what colour skin someone has. but do i make judgements based on the country they come from before i get to know someone? i think i kinda do. But its based on my experiences, which is a human thing to do.

    So am i racist?
    You do get people like that, but surely if all immigrants were like that, the UK would have put a lid on immigration ages ago.

    There is a reason why mass immigration has been promoted till now and this is only because it benefits the UK more than it damages it. All this talk by Cameron is political, he denounced immigrants etc but I doubt he will actually do something radical about it.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    I'm one of those lucky ****ers who's never lived in a particularly poor or 'mixed' community, never been jacked, never seen someone shot up, never had me girl or me job nicked by someone called Pavel, never wondered if the neighbours are cooking up a fresh batch of bombs, never been rampaged by a small army of 'YOOTS' on bikes..
    then why do you have what seems to be an 'anti-Muslim' gun in your sig and an EDL logo? Do you believe the sensational stories regarding Muslims too much? Because from your account, it seems that you lead a life undisturbed by Muslims.
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    (Original post by Grund)
    There was even this story a while ago about an elderly Indian woman who couldn't speak a word of English apart from the bare basics such as "Hello", "Thank you" and "Goodbye", and she'd been living here for many years. I just find that disrespectful; that she hasn't even tried to learn our language, yet she's living off of our country's resources.
    I know a couple of people like that.

    They're all mothers of fairly wealthy individuals who have brought their elderly parents over so they can experience a better lifestyle. None of them live off the country's resources because their children cover all their costs, directly injecting money into the economy.

    Don't believe everything you read.

    And even if this specific woman was different, so what? She couldn't just be there with nothing to do. She was obviously contributing to society in someway, even if it was just cleaning the houses of other indian families, families who contribute a lot to the economy - there was obviously a demand for her and she met it.
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    Meh, **** this. I'm a muslim, not particularly devout admittedly, but still don't drink alcohol and my best friends are two white people - one a devout greek orthodox and the other a liberal white guy. Yes, I do go out with them on holidays etc.

    I don't see the big deal.

    p.s I don't live in the uk
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    (Original post by storna)
    That's anecdotal though, isn't it? You don't have an omnipotent presence in Amsterdam or the Netherlands, so you are only going by your own experiences.
    No one has an omnipotent presence in Amsterdam or the Netherlands. On weekends I socialize with large numbers of immigrants and a few Nederlanders; the former, for the most part are also nowhere near fluent in Dutch and not once has a single one specified that they were on the receiving end of a hostile attitude from an autochtoon (native Dutch) as a result of this.
 
 
 
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