Reasons for failing BVC/BPTC modules

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GoalMachiner
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I get the impression that quite a few people end up repeating modules on the bar course.

Perhaps those on the forum who've done the course can tell us which modules tended to trip people up and whether those who failed usually did so by getting a percentage below the pass mark or by making an error that resulted in an automatic fail?
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FMQ
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(Original post by GoalMachiner)
I get the impression that quite a few people end up repeating modules on the bar course.

Perhaps those on the forum who've done the course can tell us which modules tended to trip people up and whether those who failed usually did so by getting a percentage below the pass mark or by making an error that resulted in an automatic fail?
Legal research was always a killer - but its gone now.

Dont know about a lot of 1% below pass but there seemed to be a lot of 52%s for things like Opinion and Drafting - the written subjects seemed to be the trickiest - its difficult to tell though - people are naturally cadgy and untruthful with regards to discussing marks i have found. Of the 3 advocacy exams XX yealeded the worst marks and submissions the best.

I didnt fail anything myself but there were some subjects (such a research) i put quite a lot of work in which i would never have had to do at degree level

With regards to marks - most people who pass get a VC with a handful getting outstanding and a handful competent at first attempt. Many go on to pass after resitting something some with VC (which is possible only with one fail)
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GoalMachiner
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Thanks for that FMQ.

Those were marks of 52% when 50% was the pass mark, right?

I wonder whether pupillage committees would look more favourably on someone who passed everything first time and got a Competent or someone who failed a module and got a Very Competent.
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FMQ
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(Original post by GoalMachiner)
Thanks for that FMQ.

Those were marks of 52% when 50% was the pass mark, right?

I wonder whether pupillage committees would look more favourably on someone who passed everything first time and got a Competent or someone who failed a module and got a Very Competent.
No you really need a VC - chambers dont tend to ask for a break down and don't really know if you passed or failed anything to get to that point- although getting called later might be a sign. I would agree that someone who gets 69% in everything is better than someone who gets a couple of 99%s and lots of 50s - but that just isn't the way it works.

Yes at my time 50 was a pass mark. I assume now however there will be significant grade inflation and those who would have got 52 will now get 62. Call me cynical but I really believe the whole thing is a PR excercise, as when i sat I was the only person I knew who got over 60% in everything which would have meant virtually everyone failing the bar course. I don't believe say 80-90% + of people (I dont know that many people so lots probably did get over 60, i just didnt know any) will now fail which they would have done with the marks in my year, but I guess we will know in June .
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Kessler`
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Doubtful, in all honesty, since most chambers don't ask whether you failed a module or not. Certainly in the mid-tier chambers, anyway. Therefore you'll be judged as a C against a sea (badumtish) of VCs.

I'm afraid to say that, even with a resit, some chambers will even take the view that VCs score a mark that averages higher that your own.

What FMQ says is correct, opinion writing and drafting (on the BVC) were usually the two that snared people. The reason being, in my experience, that they depended on very subjective stylistic views and could vary wildly between the markers. As an experiment, during my BVC course, I tailored a piece of drafting to my civil advocacy tutor's style then asked, afterwards, another civil tutor to mark it. The result? Wild variation, the latter marking it at 59 and the former at 86. That said, most pupillage committee members (that I've had the opportunity to talk to) say that they understand this, pointing out that many second round interview exercises will ask you to prepare or draft work in advance so that they can reach their own decision. On that basis, I do not think it is worth raising issues like mark variations since it will smack of desperation.

TLDR: You will suffer for scoring a competent alone when competing against the rest of the VC's/O's out there and it's best to keep your head down and provide other cv boosters, rather than make attempts to excuse your marks (unless you had a serious illness etc).
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Kessler`
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(Original post by FMQ)
No you really need a VC - chambers dont tend to ask for a break down and don't really know if you passed or failed anything to get to that point- although getting called later might be a sign.
Ahh yes, I got called later (in Michaelmas) for two reasons. Firstly, the summer Call was intensely competitive for places (my Inn being so small) and secondly, the winter Call allowed me to enjoy the ceremony with other friends (some of whom, admittedly, had done resits). I worry now whether that will affect me and whether I should have at least included something about having no resits. On the other hand, if a chambers is prepared to look past the rest of my CV and concentrate on drawing a false inference, then maybe it's not the sort of place I want to be anyway :P
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I love Elvis
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Cross examination was by far the worse subject to mind. I was bang on 70% in the end, having failed the practice and received appalling feedback in class. It seemed the same for others. That said, some people clicked and understood it well. Just don't fall into the trap of re-enacting some of these trashy American court room dramas- I got tempted (my mind was on another planet due to sleep deprivation). Aggression definitely unwelcome.
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lawstudent3007
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I found out I had failed the course today. I spent a whole year doing resits and in the end I failed 2 of the easiest acclaimed areas conference skills and examination in chief. How anyone does that I have no idea.
I also failed civil litigation for a second time by 1 mark. Although I achieved 65% overall the first time as I didn't have 60% on both parts (a & b) it was considered a fail. My second attempt I had an overall mark of 61% but failed as I had achieved 63% on part a and 59% on part b. I feel distraught at the fact I wasted soo much money and have come out if all of it with nothing.
I would never advise anyone to do this course
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nalikupi
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Feel for you man. I know quite a few people who spent a year for resits and failed by 1/2%. It sucks and like you I wouldn't advise anyone to do it either. I was so fortunate and passed my civil on my third sitting. My second having a concession accepted. You can say that you have completed the BPTC on your CV if that is any consolation.
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PenkLaw
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I have just got my results back from April 2014/2015 first attempt and failed civil litigation by 1 mark and rodoc (52) ethics (53) and advocacy 1. Im revising now for my resits in august. Don't really know what comments I'm seeking, i just know I'm in hell and can't wait for it to be over!
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nalikupi
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If its any advice I wouldnt sit all of the exams in august. I know you can defer so do the easiest first. If you can cope then great but something like civil I would perhaps defer for April. That's what I did. Rodoc ethics and advocacy are all manageable.
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TheCynicalOne
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(Original post by nalikupi)
You can say that you have completed the BPTC on your CV if that is any consolation.
I don't think he can, unless he actually passes??
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nalikupi
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(Original post by TheCynicalOne)
I don't think he can, unless he actually passes??
No he can write that he's completed it because he actually has. It's not a lie. Unless he dropped out half way then he can't but he did 'complete' the course. Just hasn't passed that's all
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