'It's a hard road to a better Britain, but we're on the right track.' Watch

awais590
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So, this morning a Conservative leaflet came through my door, I was reading it and it basicaly said:

Everything that's happening now is all labour's fault, it's this 'debt legacy' they have put upon us. Quote:

'Because of Labour's debt legacy, every man, woman and child would owe £22,300 in national debt.'

'We're paying £120 million every day just to pay the interest on the debt Labour ran up.'

'That's why we have to deal with the debts Labour left us now.'

They say they're giving schools an extra £2.5 billion,
they're imposing a limit on the amount of benefits people can claim
(which I agree with),
they're restoring the earnings link for pensions,
they're increasing health spending every year and modernising our NHS,


So, what do you think of this?
Does this leaflet contain genuine truth and honesty about the Conservatives and their plans?

All I've seen on the news and papers is everybody ****ging off the conservatives,
I'm not a fan of the conservatives myself but this is just something I'm curious about.
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westlondonboy
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Giving schools an extra £2.5 billion is a Lib Dem, not Tory, policy. Cheeky of them to claim this one
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awais590
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(Original post by westlondonboy)
Giving schools an extra £2.5 billion is a Lib Dem, not Tory, policy. Cheeky of them to claim this one

Lol, the leaflet had no inkling of Lib Dems whatsoever. :rofl:
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Maker
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I think its a bit niave to believe a political campaign leaflet will contain any objective truths or unalloyed facts. It may contain some truths and facts but they often selective, biased or out of date.

The govt is cutting NHS spending by 4% over 5 years, they call it efficiency savings but its still a cut.

Modernising is a meaningless phrase, its just means the most recent changes. Whether these changes are for good or bad is still debatable.
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jacketpotato
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There's only one outright lie in there. The rest is true, but of course its not the whole truth. One part of the leaflet complains about debt. The other part makes spending commitments. Clearly, that's a bit of a gap: you can't complain about debt and then bang on about extra spending.

Regarding the schools funding, this is the only really dishonest thing about that leaflet. Its the pupil premium, which was designed to provide extra funding for schools teaching kids from poor backgrounds. In the coalition agreement, it was stated that this would be extra funding coming from outside the schools' budget. In actual fact, the government has gone back on that and moved money around in the education budget to find it, so its not an increase in spending. Furthermore, to avoid a cut in schools in the constituencies of Tory back-benchers, the premium has been designed so that a poor child from a rich constituency is worth much, much more dosh than a poor child from a poor constituency. So there's no new money or extra spending here, just extra bureacracy with no benefit for schools other than creating a nice gimmick for leaflets.
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Dekota-XS
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There is a conspiracy against the elderly that the coalition government have been plotting since they came into power. The levels of unemployment is a consequence of previous labour party's bad handling of the economy. Britain is not on the way to progress what so ever, nor 'on the right track'.
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Aj12
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(Original post by awais590)
So, this morning a Conservative leaflet came through my door, I was reading it and it basicaly said:

Everything that's happening now is all labour's fault, it's this 'debt legacy' they have put upon us. Quote:

'Because of Labour's debt legacy, every man, woman and child would owe £22,300 in national debt.'

'We're paying £120 million every day just to pay the interest on the debt Labour ran up.'

'That's why we have to deal with the debts Labour left us now.'

They say they're giving schools an extra £2.5 billion,
they're imposing a limit on the amount of benefits people can claim
(which I agree with),
they're restoring the earnings link for pensions,
they're increasing health spending every year and modernising our NHS,


So, what do you think of this?
Does this leaflet contain genuine truth and honesty about the Conservatives and their plans?

All I've seen on the news and papers is everybody ****ging off the conservatives,
I'm not a fan of the conservatives myself but this is just something I'm curious about.
Its politics why would any of it have to be true? Same goes for labour leaflets
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Teaddict
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(Original post by westlondonboy)
Giving schools an extra £2.5 billion is a Lib Dem, not Tory, policy. Cheeky of them to claim this one
Actually Cameron adopted the pupil premium as Conservative policy pre-election.
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Stanley Baldwin
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(Original post by awais590)
So, this morning a Conservative leaflet came through my door, I was reading it and it basicaly said:

Everything that's happening now is all labour's fault, it's this 'debt legacy' they have put upon us. Quote:

'Because of Labour's debt legacy, every man, woman and child would owe £22,300 in national debt.'

'We're paying £120 million every day just to pay the interest on the debt Labour ran up.'

'That's why we have to deal with the debts Labour left us now.'

They say they're giving schools an extra £2.5 billion,
they're imposing a limit on the amount of benefits people can claim
(which I agree with),
they're restoring the earnings link for pensions,
they're increasing health spending every year and modernising our NHS,


So, what do you think of this?
Does this leaflet contain genuine truth and honesty about the Conservatives and their plans?

All I've seen on the news and papers is everybody ****ging off the conservatives,
I'm not a fan of the conservatives myself but this is just something I'm curious about.
Wait until 2015 and then make judgements - short-term judgements are imprecise and generally wrong. As it stands, it looks like they might well achieve what they said they would. In one year they have achieved growth despite 'austerity' and cutting an extra £1 more than the 'Darling Plan'. I would like to see what they achieve in 4 more years.
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Anna_Karenina
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I wonder why it didn't mention the fact that the conservatives were pretty much implicit in our national debt/deficit etc..etc...etc... Funny that.
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kopite493
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#11
(Original post by awais590)
So, this morning a Conservative leaflet came through my door, I was reading it and it basicaly said:

Everything that's happening now is all labour's fault, it's this 'debt legacy' they have put upon us. Quote:

'Because of Labour's debt legacy, every man, woman and child would owe £22,300 in national debt.'

'We're paying £120 million every day just to pay the interest on the debt Labour ran up.'

'That's why we have to deal with the debts Labour left us now.'

They say they're giving schools an extra £2.5 billion,
they're imposing a limit on the amount of benefits people can claim
(which I agree with),
they're restoring the earnings link for pensions,
they're increasing health spending every year and modernising our NHS,


So, what do you think of this?
Does this leaflet contain genuine truth and honesty about the Conservatives and their plans?

All I've seen on the news and papers is everybody ****ging off the conservatives,
I'm not a fan of the conservatives myself but this is just something I'm curious about.
wow how amazing are labour at being terrible they managed to cause a GLOBAL recession:rolleyes:
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Sonny_J_D
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All politicians (on all sides) seems to do is blame someone else or point out that things would be worse under an opposing party.

:rolleyes:

Fun game: try and find an interview with a local politician where they don't deflect an answer with a slur against the opposition in the area
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leetay
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(Original post by Maker)
I think its a bit niave to believe a political campaign leaflet will contain any objective truths or unalloyed facts. It may contain some truths and facts but they often selective, biased or out of date.

The govt is cutting NHS spending by 4% over 5 years, they call it efficiency savings but its still a cut.

Modernising is a meaningless phrase, its just means the most recent changes. Whether these changes are for good or bad is still debatable.
Wrong. That 4% is being reinvested back into the NHS budget so they are not cutting NHS spending and that 4% was started by Labour in April last year.
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Guru Jason
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Why cant politicians seem to work together on something instead of just arguing for arguments sake? if they worked together then they would get somewhere lol.
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leetay
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(Original post by jacketpotato)
There's only one outright lie in there. The rest is true, but of course its not the whole truth. One part of the leaflet complains about debt. The other part makes spending commitments. Clearly, that's a bit of a gap: you can't complain about debt and then bang on about extra spending.

Regarding the schools funding, this is the only really dishonest thing about that leaflet. Its the pupil premium, which was designed to provide extra funding for schools teaching kids from poor backgrounds. In the coalition agreement, it was stated that this would be extra funding coming from outside the schools' budget. In actual fact, the government has gone back on that and moved money around in the education budget to find it, so its not an increase in spending. Furthermore, to avoid a cut in schools in the constituencies of Tory back-benchers, the premium has been designed so that a poor child from a rich constituency is worth much, much more dosh than a poor child from a poor constituency. So there's no new money or extra spending here, just extra bureacracy with no benefit for schools other than creating a nice gimmick for leaflets.
Wrong. The school budget is a separate budget to the education budget and they never said anything about increasing the education budget. In fact they specifically said it would be cut by around 10% so no lie took place.
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Bobifier
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I received their AV leaflet. It would have been hilarious if it were not so disturbing that some people might take it seriously.
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jacketpotato
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(Original post by leetay)
Wrong. The school budget is a separate budget to the education budget and they never said anything about increasing the education budget. In fact that specifically said it would be cut by around 10% so no lie took place.
My bad, I meant the schools budget. Switch the word "education" for "school" and everything I said remains true.

The coalition agreement states "We will fund a significant premium for disadvantaged pupils from outside the schools budget by reductions in spending elsewhere". But much of the cash is simply taken from elsewhere in the schools budget: see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11977844 for coalition admission of this. This directly contradicts what was promised before the election, what the coalition agreement says and what the Op's leaflet says.

And richer (Conservative) areas get more cash per poor-pupil than poorer areas: see http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...-homes-warning. This doesn't create any outright lies, but completely contradicts the whole point of the premium and exposes it as something that creates extra red-tape just for a PR gimmick.
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leetay
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(Original post by jacketpotato)
My bad, I meant the schools budget. Switch the word "education" for "school" and everything I said remains true.

The coalition agreement states "We will fund a significant premium for disadvantaged pupils from outside the schools budget by reductions in spending elsewhere". But much of the cash is simply taken from elsewhere in the schools budget: see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11977844 for coalition admission of this. This directly contradicts what was promised before the election, what the coalition agreement says and what the Op's leaflet says.

And richer (Conservative) areas get more cash per poor-pupil than poorer areas: see http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...-homes-warning. This doesn't create any outright lies, but completely contradicts the whole point of the premium and exposes it as something that creates extra red-tape just for a PR gimmick.
Ok, firstly the BBC article says some but not all will come from the schools budget but by freezing teachers pay and looking into their pensions so it's not something major and the rest does come from outside the schoold budget. Granted it doesn't quite comply with the coalition agreement fully but it doesn't completely break it either. It's somewhere between the two.

Secondly the Guardian article says "At the moment, the wealthiest parts of the country receive more for each child from a low-income home in their area than the poorest areas do. The government is considering calculating the pupil premium by levelling out this discrepancy so that all areas receive the same."

In other words it was happening when they came into government and they want to sort it out to ensure each area gets the same.

Although I do recall reading an article about this elsewhere a while back that seemed to suggest that there are more poor children in richer areas than poorer areas which I found hard to believe.

Anyhow a poor child is poor wherever they live so they should be treated the same whether they live in a poor or rich area, however we do need to take into account that rich areas have higher costs to the population including schools so it's likely that if they do get more money it's to do with that.
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-2D-
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(Original post by Maker)
I think its a bit niave to believe a political campaign leaflet will contain any objective truths or unalloyed facts. It may contain some truths and facts but they often selective, biased or out of date.

The govt is cutting NHS spending by 4% over 5 years, they call it efficiency savings but its still a cut.

Modernising is a meaningless phrase, its just means the most recent changes. Whether these changes are for good or bad is still debatable.
Overall spending on the NHS is increasing in real terms, however efficiency savings are required as the population is ageing very fast between 2010 and 2030 those on state pensions will double. Hence the budget is becoming increasingly stretched and put under strainin causing there to effectively be cuts in provision but purely in real terms spending is rising.
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Aj12
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(Original post by kopite493)
wow how amazing are labour at being terrible they managed to cause a GLOBAL recession:rolleyes:
The tories have not claimed Labour caused the recession. They just blame Labour for the debt. Had roles been reversed Labour would be saying the same things
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