There should be an awful lot of humble people on this site regarding Bush Watch

Ministerdonut
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-hideout.html

Not just Bush,but the likes of rumsfield and cheny,condy rice etc etc. Lots of people here dribble on about Torture not working and how nasty gitmo and what goes on there and in other countries on US orders but right now some of you need to admit you were wrong.

Don't be despondent, Obama himself was a dribbler and handwringer on Gitmo,the CIA and torture, but even he isn't stupid enough to shut the place down or place criminal charges against those in the Bush admin that authorised the advanced techniques to make those terrorist goat fukers talk. Indeed Gitmo is thriving, it won't be shut down and if there is a need I have no doubt Obama would authorise it, perhaps worse if the need arose. Because ladies and gentlemen we are at war . And it isn't a question of being morally above your enemy ,when it comes down to it it is about winning and doing what needs to be done.

Of course torture works, why have they been using it since time and memorial? And by people far more intelligent that liberal talking heads,or the occasional 'former military officer ',who they drag out to give a bit of credence to their idiocy.

The key when using it, isn't so much the torture itself all sorts of techniques can be used depending on how long you have to extract the info. But having experts in human intelligence to sift through the extracted info to get a reliable intelligence picture and also enter trick questions within the questioning that you already know the answers too.So when you for instance electrocute his testicles and he answers this question correctly you know ,he knows something. And it can be stepped up and other questions can be asked.

So lets have no more of this nonsense of torture not working.There is a moral argument, which Iam prepared to listen too,but pleace do not talk such studidity.And before a chimp rants about the Daily Mail there are numerous other news outlets on this and ironically the Mail is rather left wing regarding US politics, quite an Obama supporter is the Mail like the rest of the British media.
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Drewski
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Nobody's ever said it doesn't work. That's the absolute least of the arguments against it.
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Ministerdonut
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(Original post by Drewski)
Nobody's ever said it doesn't work. That's the absolute least of the arguments against it.
What? you have a very short memory, anyone mentioned torture when Bush was president , countless people pipe up about it not working and how unreliable it is. Not just on this site, there were numerous documentaries about how rubbish it is as an human intel gathering option. That everything gleaned from it is inaccurate...

But is it because now it has come out the annointed one (Obama) hasn't shut gitmo (despite saying he was going to) was prepared to use intel gained from it,and I expect there are interrogations are still going on by the CIA , suddenly it does work.

It's amazing too how many left wing media commentators are quiet about just how the US ended up killing Bin Laden.
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Stratos
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Respect.
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Ministerdonut
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To the drug addled left waterboarding a terrorist to get information out of him is barbaric and it violates our core beliefs. While putting a couple of bullets through his face and eyes and then throw him into the sea as fish food isn't barbaric. Do i have that right? democratic bombs good, republican bombs bad. phonies and frauds through and through.

And Obama should finally grow a spine and apologise to **** Cheney.
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simon-leeds
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
To the drug addled left waterboarding a terrorist to get information out of him is barbaric and it violates our core beliefs. While putting a couple of bullets through his face and eyes and then throw him into the sea as fish food isn't barbaric. Do i have that right? democratic bombs good, republican bombs bad. phonies and frauds through and through.

And Obama should finally grow a spine and apologise to **** Cheney.
He was buried at sea because of the Islamic belief that graves shouldn't become shrines. Republican bombs were dropped on Iraq, a country they claimes, quite clearly fraudulantly, to have "WMDs". Oh, and I think you'll find that Bush always thought Osama was in Afghanistan, Obama always said he was probably in Pakistan. And I wouldn't believe everything you believe in the Daily Mail. And torture is barbaric.
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Sonfi
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
To the drug addled left waterboarding a terrorist to get information out of him is barbaric and it violates our core beliefs. While putting a couple of bullets through his face and eyes and then throw him into the sea as fish food isn't barbaric.
Not drug addled - but they're both wrong.
Let's assume torture works - ends still don't justify the means. It's not possible to state that 'my country is morally right, and these people are morally wrong' if you commit the same or similar crimes. You lose any legitimacy.

Anyway, do we know that they found Osama using torture? Genuine question.
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Ministerdonut
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(Original post by simon-leeds)
He was buried at sea because of the Islamic belief that graves shouldn't become shrines. Republican bombs were dropped on Iraq, a country they claimes, quite clearly fraudulantly, to have "WMDs". Oh, and I think you'll find that Bush always thought Osama was in Afghanistan, Obama always said he was probably in Pakistan. And I wouldn't believe everything you believe in the Daily Mail. And torture is barbaric.
Do you really think it was done because of respect for Islam?How trusting you are of the BBC or the Guardian or whatever it is you read. And I wouldn't be so trusting of what Obama thinks or believes,when he backtracked on his plans to close Gitmo and wussed out on prosecuting those in the Bush admin who sorted out the 'enhanced interogation techniques'. He is becoming as republican as possible because he has an election to win in 2012.

War is barbaric but the left seem okay with when it is a democrat president okaying the barbarism , flying planes into buildings is barbaric. Suicide bombings are barbaric. When you want to beat an enemy such as the islamists, who will go to any lengths to beat us, sometimes you have to do what would be in peacetime quite objectionable things.
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Ministerdonut
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(Original post by Sonfi)
Not drug addled - but they're both wrong.
Let's assume torture works - ends still don't justify the means. It's not possible to state that 'my country is morally right, and these people are morally wrong' if you commit the same or similar crimes. You lose any legitimacy.

Anyway, do we know that they found Osama using torture? Genuine question.
The lead on bin laden's whereabouts, came from the waterboarding of kahlid shiek mohammed. .
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simon-leeds
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
Do you really think it was done because of respect for Islam?How trusting you are of the BBC or the Guardian or whatever it is you read. And I wouldn't be so trusting of what Obama thinks or believes,when he backtracked on his plans to close Gitmo and wussed out on prosecuting those in the Bush admin who sorted out the 'enhanced interogation techniques'. He is becoming as republican as possible because he has an election to win in 2012.

War is barbaric but the left seem okay with when it is a democrat president okaying the barbarism , flying planes into buildings is barbaric. Suicide bombings are barbaric. When you want to beat an enemy such as the islamists, who will go to any lengths to beat us, sometimes you have to do what would be in peacetime quite objectionable things.
What other reason could there possiblt be? I'm sure you would rather his body was paraded around America so rednecks could shoot at him. Showing a horrendous level of ignorance by simply calling them "islamists". Our moral onduct is what should separate our supposedly great democracies from people such as terrorists.
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pol pot noodles
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-hideout.html

Not just Bush,but the likes of rumsfield and cheny,condy rice etc etc. Lots of people here dribble on about Torture not working and how nasty gitmo and what goes on there and in other countries on US orders but right now some of you need to admit you were wrong.

Don't be despondent, Obama himself was a dribbler and handwringer on Gitmo,the CIA and torture, but even he isn't stupid enough to shut the place down or place criminal charges against those in the Bush admin that authorised the advanced techniques to make those terrorist goat fukers talk. Indeed Gitmo is thriving, it won't be shut down and if there is a need I have no doubt Obama would authorise it, perhaps worse if the need arose. Because ladies and gentlemen we are at war . And it isn't a question of being morally above your enemy ,when it comes down to it it is about winning and doing what needs to be done.

Of course torture works, why have they been using it since time and memorial? And by people far more intelligent that liberal talking heads,or the occasional 'former military officer ',who they drag out to give a bit of credence to their idiocy.

The key when using it, isn't so much the torture itself all sorts of techniques can be used depending on how long you have to extract the info. But having experts in human intelligence to sift through the extracted info to get a reliable intelligence picture and also enter trick questions within the questioning that you already know the answers too.So when you for instance electrocute his testicles and he answers this question correctly you know ,he knows something. And it can be stepped up and other questions can be asked.

So lets have no more of this nonsense of torture not working.There is a moral argument, which Iam prepared to listen too,but pleace do not talk such studidity.And before a chimp rants about the Daily Mail there are numerous other news outlets on this and ironically the Mail is rather left wing regarding US politics, quite an Obama supporter is the Mail like the rest of the British media.
So I expect whenever a westerner is kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Taliban or Al Qaeda you have absolutely no problems with that? All fair game in your opinion?
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Ministerdonut
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(Original post by simon-leeds)
What other reason could there possiblt be? I'm sure you would rather his body was paraded around America so rednecks could shoot at him. Showing a horrendous level of ignorance by simply calling them "islamists". Our moral onduct is what should separate our supposedly great democracies from people such as terrorists.
I think ramming what remains of his head onto a stake outside the whitehouse is more than suitable for a mass murderer. Bury the rest of his body with the remains of pigs and video it. Make the video online available for a small fee for any interested parties. The money can go to the first responders on 9/11,

And I couldn't care if the islamists get outraged, they would just scream and slap their foreheads about something else anyway.
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UnknwnEntity
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Ok OP, I'll concede my bush is quite modest indeed. I trim it fairly regular.
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Ministerdonut
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(Original post by pol pot noodles)
So I expect whenever a westerner is kidnapped, tortured and murdered by the Taliban or Al Qaeda you have absolutely no problems with that? All fair game in your opinion?
Didn't they do that before Bin Laden was killed??

What his death does, is show mass murderers and psychopaths around the world,who shelter under the umbrella of Islam who bad mouth the US and the UK, who plot terror against our nations that the United states at least will go after them and they can never be safe.

And bin laden was the type of person who sends deluded people to their deaths, he himself valued his life as evidenced by hiding behind a womans skirts using her as a human shield. He knew fear in his last moments,if he fears his subordinates will too. Who also send deluded people to their deaths with explosives strapped to them.
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simon-leeds
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
Didn't they do that before Bin Laden was killed??

What his death does, is show mass murderers and psychopaths around the world,who shelter under the umbrella of Islam who bad mouth the US and the UK, who plot terror against our nations that the United states at least will go after them and they can never be safe.

And bin laden was the type of person who sends deluded people to their deaths, he himself valued his life as evidenced by hiding behind a womans skirts using her as a human shield. He knew fear in his last moments,if he fears his subordinates will too. Who also send deluded people to their deaths with explosives strapped to them.
Except it is only a tiny minority of Muslims who support Bin Laden and his views. The vast majority are perfectly normal people. In fact, the major movement amongst the people in the Middle East is towards freedom and democracy.
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Steezy
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OP you're a retard. The argument for torture not working is that people will say anything to get out of being tortured.

"We are at war"..... Debateable. We are at war if you lap everything up that the media and government say, in order to make you weep and salute with 'pride'. But there's too many inconsistencies, too many half truthes, too much speculation and not enough answers regarding why we went there, why we're still there, why we haven't left yet and why Obama hasn't done a single thing he said he would regarding it.
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FrigidSymphony
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Torture may get you answers, but the wrong answers. Also, Osama was caught thanks to surveillance and routine interrogation, not waterboarding. Check your facts before sounding off like a moron.
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morecambebay
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Convenient to say the least.
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thunder_chunky
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Err torture doesn't work.
When someone is being tortured whether it be through waterboarding or another way, if the torture is extensive after a while everyone will talk, because everyone has a breaking point. And at that point, people will say anything or almost anything to make it stop.
That is fact.

And even if the information came from a detainee at Gitmo, that doesn't mean that the detention of any number of terror suspects over the last ten years has been justified because not only were many detained without trial, but many were detained despite having no clear or provable links to terrorism.

The fact that the information on OBL may have come from a detainee of Gitmo does not condone the existence of Gitmo in the slightest.

And were we wrong about Bush? No, he's still a war mongering dumbass and Cheney and Rumsfield are his loyal followers, helping to spread the muck
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Captain Crash
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(Original post by Ministerdonut)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-hideout.html

Not just Bush,but the likes of rumsfield and cheny,condy rice etc etc. Lots of people here dribble on about Torture not working and how nasty gitmo and what goes on there and in other countries on US orders but right now some of you need to admit you were wrong.
"Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells Newsmax the information that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden was obtained through “normal interrogation approaches” and says the notion that terrorist suspects were waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay is a “myth.”"

Source
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