To those students on the Autistic Spectrum. Watch

laeof
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Hey guys,
Basically i'm starting a Wiki which will incorporate lots of information about the Autistic Spectrum.

I want to create something that will really give a good picture to Neurotypicals as to what it is like having ASD.

In addition, i want to have a lot of information FOR people with ASD, coping mechanisms etc.

It's in it's early stages. Eventually i'll be making it into a fully fledged community specifically for those with ASD.

There's not much information on it yet, and a lot of information i still need to rewrite, i've just bunged it on there to remind myself to do so. This is important to note before people start shouting at me about inconsistensies .

I still have a lot of information to write about University life for example - My mum gave my friend 3 pages of coping mechanisms JUST for dealing with alcohol related stuff. Just to quote some of that(her reply to an issue or event someone had):

One neurotypical person will ask another to drink with them. If that neurotypical person says 'no' to a drink it normally means they want to but don’t have the money, or they just need a little encouragement. By telling the person who offered you drink 'no', the neurotypical person felt rejected. This is why he insisted in a bullying form.

Strategies I used.

Buy one drink and make it last. If anyone offered me a drink I could tell them I already had one.

I would buy some drinks for people and go to the bar myself so it was not noticed I had the same drink. Most of the time neurotypical people will over look the fact you are not drinking because you got them a drink. When that falls go to the next strategy.


My first drink would always be orange juice with vodka and the beauty of vodka, mixed with orange juice looks like orange juice. After that I would go back to the bar and order orange juice and no one was the wiser. If anyone asked me if I wanted a drink I could tell the truth and say I had a drink.


If someone asked me what I was drinking I would respond with “orange juice with vodka goes well together” did I lie? No because I did not say ‘I am drinking vodka and orange juice' but I suggested vodka and orange juice go well together. Most neurotypical assume that is what I am drinking. If anyone tries to take a sip, (someone will at one point), I would smile and in a fun way pick up the drink just as they reach for it and say ”get your own”. I say that comment in a sing song manner like a nursery rhyme. I choose a nursery rhyme tone which I picked out and could remember spontaneously when needed. This took practise but I used a tape recorder to mimic a phrase then play it back till I was satisfied when used it would not sound sarcastic but normal.

By sing-song i assume she means not in mono tone. I need to ask her about this one (which is why writing up information takes me a while :P...I need to clarify everything)
. Anyway:

After it gets a bit more information - I'll be going to various AS groups around London and getting their information. I'll be obtaining their coping strategies and tips, and putting it on the Wiki. I also want to use scenarios and situation - and explain them and why they happened.

The main one i'll be going too first has the most amazing open minded psychologist in AS i've met. She's helped my Mum/Brothers/Friends with pretty much all of their issues and understanding their behavior and i hear a lot about her teachings.

Now, before people start yelling at me 'You're not a professional, you shouldn't be doing it'. Basically, I'm going to be a researcher and information collector. It benefits me because I have a Mum, Brother, Close friend on ASD. So i deal with it daily. I also help teenagers with Aspergers, explaining their behaviors and suggesting coping mechanisms or things they could do to help certain situations. I'm pretty good at the moment and always gotten really positive feedback - but i'm no where near perfect, and there's still so much more to learn!! I also work with Autistic children during the holidays.

So the more i learn, the more i can help. Especially because you're all so different!


I'm wondering who else would be willing to help with it? It doesn't mean nessisarily creating content - but reading it and making sure the wording is good to help the reader gather an understanding.


I have an absolute **** ton
that i need to add already that hasn't been - Aside from Alcohol, My mum's written around 16 pages on coping mechanisms, specifically eye contact! And i've been quite amazing from reading it. Like for example, there's a point you can look at someone - it looks like you're looking in their eyes, but your not. So you don't feel so awkward.

I have exams most of the next 2 weeks, but i'm trying to get a rough idea before i start.

Thankyou for reading .
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laeof
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Oh, and importantly: Anyone haven't any specific issue's with University(or anything else) that you're really struggling with. Please post/pm me because it's likely others are too. It means i can go to these AS groups where others have been to University and ask how they dealt with it, and then pass the information on to you .
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Peregrinum
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(Original post by AshleyT)
Hey guys,
Basically i'm starting a Wiki which will incorporate lots of information about the Autistic Spectrum.

I want to create something that will really give a good picture to Neurotypicals as to what it is like having ASD.
Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like. You go around these Asperger's related threads on TSR saying things like "most of the information you read online/in books is incorrect" or that "AS doesn't mean you don't have empathy and lack imagination". And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information. Yeah, yeah, your mom and brother have AS and so do your friends and you read about it a lot, etc., etc., but here's a newsflash - it doesn't make you a specialist on the subject. Remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in emphatizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). So stop going around acting like you're an expert - you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!) and your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?
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i.am.lost
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I really don't think alcohol strategies should be anywhere near the top of the list of things to cover, there are FAR FAR more important things, and the advice your mum is giving is fatally misguided in that it's sending a message of 'you will not be accepted for who you are so you need to lie about it'. If that's going to be the running theme of this wiki then I want no part in it.

I do think we need to cover material on dealing with relationships and how to effectively communicate with a (potential) partner or close friend especially dealing with sensitive issues like intimacy and being in new situations.
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laeof
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(Original post by Peregrinum)
Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like. You go around these Asperger's related threads on TSR saying things like "most of the information you read online/in books is incorrect" or that "AS doesn't mean you don't have empathy and lack imagination". And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information. Yeah, yeah, your mom and brother have AS and so do your friends and you read about it a lot, etc., etc., but here's a newsflash - it doesn't make you a specialist on the subject. Remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in emphatizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). So stop going around acting like you're an expert - you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!) and your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?
'your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.'
I think you have seriously misinterpretated what i am doing, and who i am. I'm not trying to give my views of stuff. The whole University section is not written by me. It's written by a friend of mine with Aspergers Syndrome who is at University third year.. As is a lot of that information.

I do not feel I am anywhere near expert level - but I want to get there - When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong' - I'm trying to pinpoint that what one reads is not literally how it is and thus people should be more open minded about Aspergers and Autism in general. I am open minded when it comes to AS, generally when i post my posts i expect someone with AS to quote me and say 'this part is incorrect, i feel xyz' because everything is all relative to experiences.

I don't 'read' about it a lot AT ALL - Every single conversation at home is around Aspergers Syndrome, behaviors, disabilities, treatment in society, treatment in the NHS, other Aspergers relationships, problems they were having, how they solved them, what the local psycholohist suggested in terms of solving them, conversations in the AS groups, reactions in the AS groups, Government changes to Autism rules, Aspie's opinions on this, the negative and the bad of the rule changes, working with AS etc. Every single one.

This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people.

I work with Autism a large portion of the year - I don't just have friends and family with Aspergers. But my point is i'm largely engrossed in the society of it, for the shear fact all that will be talked about at home is Autism.

I have a experience in the field. But that's just it, these are my experiences and every single one of you will have different experiences and thus different information to share. And i want to learn as much as possible..

I want to learn - Not judge.

I'm not speaking for the Autistic Community - My point is being a bridge. Creating something FOR THEM to write about everything and for that to happen, i need to kick-start it with research of my own. I need to get stories, scenarios of situations people have experienced, etc. A task for after exams.

I've been told by(a whole group of 50 i spoke too) many they'd jump at the idea to have a place to share stories, situations, share coping strategies and gather advice on them.

Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria).
That's the point made with some of the writing. That not everyone has the same difficulties, i am fully aware of that as i have written many a times.

The important reason for this is a few diagnosed with AS - at first whilst reading the symtoms thought they did not have AS because they took it all literally. Yes 'Empathy' is a diagnostic criteria because of 'Theory of Mind' - But not all people suffer from in the same way(i've read AS Empthy exists but is just different from a Neurotypicals). I've met many people with AS who get angry at the idea they have no emotions.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?
BECAUSE - So many will try to fit in. Not everyone with AS just accepts they are different and does NOTHING about it. Many strive with all their efforts to fit in.

The strategies are there IF PEOPLE WANT THEM. But I definitely agree, accepting who one is, it's extremely important. I've seen what happens when someone can't - It led to my mothers repeated attempts of suicide not long ago.

It's not all literal stuff.

you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!)
And what's your definition of the AS community? A parent of someone with AS? Someone with AS who is affected by it every day? Someone that works with it every day?

The AS Community is a NOT just those who suffer from Aspergers. Also, I'm not diagnosed with Aspergers - I have ADHD. But I suffer from some of the same issues that those with AS Suffer from. FYI, ADHD is more commonly being referred to as being on the ASD now and i doubt it will be long before it's put on there properly.

Thank-you for the reply though - Although i'd appreciate more feedback if possible rather than personal attacks when you don't know me . My TSR posts are not representational of who i am and often I will post things just to get reactions - So i can see if people disagree/agree or what other's view are.
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laeof
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(Original post by i.am.lost)
I really don't think alcohol strategies should be anywhere near the top of the list of things to cover, there are FAR FAR more important things, and the advice your mum is giving is fatally misguided in that it's sending a message of 'you will not be accepted for who you are so you need to lie about it'. If that's going to be the running theme of this wiki then I want no part in it.

I do think we need to cover material on dealing with relationships and how to effectively communicate with a (potential) partner or close friend especially dealing with sensitive issues like intimacy and being in new situations.
Hey there!
Thanks for your reply.

That's not what was meant to be said there in relation to alcohol(that people should have to try fit in)! In fact the information i posted there was Mum replying to an email of my friends (who had a serious problem and a serious situation arose). Since Mum's email, he's dealt with alcohol situations perfectly fine . It was just an example of the types of things that may perhaps go on the site - for example if someone wants to go out for a drink(aka wants to be with people but not drink), but struggles at times.

The point is - some of it may help other people with AS who are struggling with the whole going/out drinking stuff. It's not advice being given as such - Just information they can use how they please, if at all. I would like the stuff to be read exactly as that and maybe it doesn't give out enough of that vibe?

But if you look at the University related section for example - It does say 'if you don't want to do x, don't feel you have too, do what YOU feel comfortable doing'. That's kinda the points i want to push .

Stuff is not just being written by me though(Quite a few sections have been written by some people I know with Aspergers), so it takes a lot of editing to get the right ideas across correctly and i have to get opinions of a lot of people to do so .

What more important things would you prefer to see ? Oh, just read your part about relationships - Yeah i have a few Aspie's who said they wanted to write about this stuff - One of them in university and just started his first relationship =). He's learn a lot though just from the first 2 months together and is doing very well!

Please, the more feedback you can give, the better - A few weeks time i'll be going to groups etc to ask, but i'm aiming to get it up to a decent stage first.
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laeof
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(Original post by Peregrinum)
Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like. You go around these Asperger's related threads on TSR saying things like "most of the information you read online/in books is incorrect" or that "AS doesn't mean you don't have empathy and lack imagination". And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information. Yeah, yeah, your mom and brother have AS and so do your friends and you read about it a lot, etc., etc., but here's a newsflash - it doesn't make you a specialist on the subject. Remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in emphatizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). So stop going around acting like you're an expert - you do not speak for the whole AS community (which you are not even a part of!) and your limited experiences with your friends and family members are not representative of the everyone else with the condition.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the strategies on making yourself look like a drinker? Haven't you ever considered that by saying "do X, Y, and Z so you could be more like the others" is sending the message that it's not okay to be different and say "no" to a social convention you're not interested in taking part in?
Well then do in such a way that actually really explains what it's like.
Note, the information written up was very, very brief, mostly as to just remind myself to re-write it.
Or to remind other's who had written stuff to re-write. A large amount of the stuff is not written by me.

And I'm tired of it because in this instance you are the one spreading false information.
Example please? Most of my writing is from MY experiences and other peoples. And everyone's experiences are going to be different.
So, instead of getting all pissy, mind pinpointing where you feel information is incorrect? I have ADHD - I do sometimes mistype or misexpress things in the same way that AS people do. I do have trouble at times taking things literally.

My point on there wasn't to specify that Aspergers do infact empathise - It was to bring a point up that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND SOME DO.
So, not to take the information of symptoms of AS, literally.
Perhaps i need to literally state that.


The idea is i want to improve the information - so instead of writing a whole post attacking me. Please specifying improvements? Bare in mind, yes i'm aware most of it needs re-writing - I was trying to post the general concept and idea - A place to share coping strategies and information.
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Peregrinum
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(Original post by AshleyT)
I think you have seriously misinterpretated what i am doing, and who i am.
I'm not talking about your "project" here, this has got nothing to do with it. I just saw your post and it gave me the opportunity to say what I've been meaning to say for quite some time.

So here it is: what irks me about your AS related posts is that so many of them have you saying that people with AS do not have problems with empathizing and imagination; you're saying that Internet sites and textbooks have got it wrong. To quote your own words: "I've found most textbooks and internet sites hold incorrect information but then the idea is generally new...". That's from your profile page. And that's what I've seen you say in so many posts around TSR, coupled with the "no empathizing problems" bit. And that's just wrong. And I've explained why it's wrong, but here goes again: remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in empathizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). Yet you keep going around and essentially saying that the highly trained professionals don't know what they're talking about, but you do because you know people with AS.

You said: "When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong'". Do you know the definition of the word "incorrect"? It means false, not true, inaccurate. It means "wrong". If you say that it's incorrect to believe that Aspies have difficulties with empathizing then the only logical conclusion is that they do not have such difficulties. Which is not true. But the statements you're making make it sound true.

You also said: "This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people." Then why the hell do you go around saying that (and I quote you!) "I've found most textbooks hold incorrect information"?! If you don't even read about Asperger's then how on Earth can you say that the books are wrong?!

(Original post by AshleyT)
The important reason for this is a few diagnosed with AS - at first whilst reading the symtoms thought they did not have AS because they took it all literally. Yes 'Empathy' is a diagnostic criteria because of 'Theory of Mind' - But not all people suffer from in the same way(i've read AS Empthy exists but is just different from a Neurotypicals). I've met many people with AS who get angry at the idea they have no emotions.
From this it seems that you do understand that there are differences and not all people with AS are the same; some have difficulties with empathy/imagination and some don't. Yet you don't acknowledge that (at least I haven't seen it yet), you say it's incorrect to assume that Aspies can't be empathetic and then you give an example about your brother who apparently can be. If you know that people with Asperger's are all different then why don't you just say that? Why do you keep making definitive statements like the ones I've already mentioned, which are in fact wrong? There's a lot of confusion about what AS is like as it is and it seems to me that you're only adding to it by saying things that are incorrect and, based on your responses in this thread, not even what you actually mean.
As for the underlined part - lack of empathy doesn't mean "lack of emotions".

(Original post by AshleyT)
BECAUSE - So many will try to fit in. Not everyone with AS just accepts they are different and does NOTHING about it. Many strive with all their efforts to fit in.
Well, I'm not much of an exception, I'd like to fit in too, you know. But many of us don't just like the drinking part, we don't like the whole clubbing/going out kind of thing. And when you're a weirdo who doesn't like these kinds of things then you're almost instantly excluded. When I got to university, I accepted an invitation to go get some takeout. Of course I really sucked at it - I couldn't really converse with anyone (best I could do was parrot someone else's "what course are you doing?"), I didn't understand their jokes, I didn't care for their topics of conversation, I was totally weirded out when the others suggested slumber party (then and there) to "bond", and I think my leaving without saying a thing to anyone was bit of a social faux pas. I was asked to go to a bar the next day and I turned them down. That was the extent of my communication with my flatmates until I moved out several months later. I was instantly ostracized because I wasn't what most young adults consider "normal". How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need. I mean, if you get as far as to be actually invited to go out and you actually do go (a big achievement for someone with AS), then it doesn't take all that much brain power to realize that you can pass orange juice for a Screwdriver.
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laeof
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(Original post by Peregrinum)
I'm not talking about your "project" here, this has got nothing to do with it. I just saw your post and it gave me the opportunity to say what I've been meaning to say for quite some time.

So here it is: what irks me about your AS related posts is that so many of them have you saying that people with AS do not have problems with empathizing and imagination; you're saying that Internet sites and textbooks have got it wrong. To quote your own words: "I've found most textbooks and internet sites hold incorrect information but then the idea is generally new...". That's from your profile page. And that's what I've seen you say in so many posts around TSR, coupled with the "no empathizing problems" bit. And that's just wrong. And I've explained why it's wrong, but here goes again: remember the "Girls with Asperger's" thread where there was a guy (just recently) arguing that AS has no neurological basis? The thing is that the medical and scientific community dealing with autism spectrum disorders accepts that there most definitely is (albeit not a single specific one). And in the exact same way the community also accepts that those with AS have deficiencies in empathizing and imagination. Yes, there are differences among patients. Not everyone will have those difficulties, the same way that not everyone with AS is "sarcasm-impaired", but those difficulties are considered to be a significant and highly prevalent part of the disorder (and in fact part of most if not all diagnostic criteria). Yet you keep going around and essentially saying that the highly trained professionals don't know what they're talking about, but you do because you know people with AS.

You said: "When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong'". Do you know the definition of the word "incorrect"? It means false, not true, inaccurate. It means "wrong". If you say that it's incorrect to believe that Aspies have difficulties with empathizing then the only logical conclusion is that they do not have such difficulties. Which is not true. But the statements you're making make it sound true.

You also said: "This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people." Then why the hell do you go around saying that (and I quote you!) "I've found most textbooks hold incorrect information"?! If you don't even read about Asperger's then how on Earth can you say that the books are wrong?!



From this it seems that you do understand that there are differences and not all people with AS are the same; some have difficulties with empathy/imagination and some don't. Yet you don't acknowledge that (at least I haven't seen it yet), you say it's incorrect to assume that Aspies can't be empathetic and then you give an example about your brother who apparently can be. If you know that people with Asperger's are all different then why don't you just say that? Why do you keep making definitive statements like the ones I've already mentioned, which are in fact wrong? There's a lot of confusion about what AS is like as it is and it seems to me that you're only adding to it by saying things that are incorrect and, based on your responses in this thread, not even what you actually mean.
As for the underlined part - lack of empathy doesn't mean "lack of emotions".



Well, I'm not much of an exception, I'd like to fit in too, you know. But many of us don't just like the drinking part, we don't like the whole clubbing/going out kind of thing. And when you're a weirdo who doesn't like these kinds of things then you're almost instantly excluded. When I got to university, I accepted an invitation to go get some takeout. Of course I really sucked at it - I couldn't really converse with anyone (best I could do was parrot someone else's "what course are you doing?"), I didn't understand their jokes, I didn't care for their topics of conversation, I was totally weirded out when the others suggested slumber party (then and there) to "bond", and I think my leaving without saying a thing to anyone was bit of a social faux pas. I was asked to go to a bar the next day and I turned them down. That was the extent of my communication with my flatmates until I moved out several months later. I was instantly ostracized because I wasn't what most young adults consider "normal". How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need. I mean, if you get as far as to be actually invited to go out and you actually do go (a big achievement for someone with AS), then it doesn't take all that much brain power to realize that you can pass orange juice for a Screwdriver.
So here it is: what irks me about your AS related posts is that so many of them have you saying that people with AS do not have problems with empathizing and imagination; you're saying that Internet sites and textbooks have got it wrong. To quote your own words: "I've found most textbooks and internet sites hold incorrect information but then the idea is generally new...". That's from your profile page. And that's what I've seen you say in so many posts around TSR, coupled with the "no empathizing problems" bit.
Perhaps my wording is not quite what i mean - I mean for example on the internet, the information that people with AS do not empathise under any circumstances. And this is incorrect, because some do!

Perhaps because those with AS empathise differently to Neurotypicals(i've heard numerous things about this), perhaps it depends on the severity of the Aspie in question - but I mean it in such a way that the Diagnosis of Aspergers is not rigid and black and white. The majority of Aspie's i've met have had great problems with Sarcasm - but i've met others who use it a great deal and have somehow learn to use it for humour. Every person with AS is different. The diagnostics of AS are not black and white, and that is what i mean by incorrect information(because this is the impression I always seem to get from the internet....and from some doctors).

One of my close friends for example, one of the most typical Aspie's i've ever met. My Mum picked up within minutes that he had AS - read information about it and decided he didn't have it. Later on he did go and get a diagnosis and even the diagnostician said he was very typical.

Infact, i'd say AS people are far, far, far more sensitive than Neurotypicals. I don't quite understand the reasoning for it, or how it comes, but they are so sensitive to upsetting people, so sensitive in detecting if something is wrong or upsetting someone. And it seems to upset them a great deal. I'm not sure empathy is the word, but yes, because of this, the idealogy that AS are computers with no emotions seems so wrong!

No in terms of experts being wrong, i don't quite mean this either. There are some amazing experts out there i love talking too, the information they hold about AS is phenomenal, but it's not text-book information. It's information based on experiences. Like-wise there are some horrendous professionals out there who claim to be 'experts' in Aspergers.

Now i'm talking around 6 years ago, no word of a lie, my Mum was told by her GP 'Aspergers does not exist, you are a bad parent.'. This was a Doctor, an older Doctor so someone who should have been aware, or at least open minded enough to go and find out about it. Instead she believed Aspergers did not exist. For this reason, i do not mean 'professionals' are all incorrect - I mean it in a way of 'Don't necessarily 100% trust what you are being told, ask for second opinions'.

To get my brother diagnosed, my Mum had to fight against corporus 'professionals' and 'educational psychologists'. The people who should know about all this stuff, did not. She had to fight in tribunals, 2 to get him diagnosed, 3 just to get him into a special needs school. These people all went on Aspergers by text-book. They took all the information literally. And with Aspergers especially 'There is more to the truth than just the facts'.

So excuse my opinion that some professionals are incorrect. My experiences have told me there are some absolutely rubbish ones out there(Who once said Aspergers Syndrome did not exist), and some phenomenal ones. My posts i generally wish to encourage open-mindedness. I don't mean them to be taken literally, but perhaps i have not written exactly what i meant - By incorrect information on the internet, i did not mean a majority of it, I meant a portion of it has 'other sides' to the story.

You said: "When i post things about lots of information being incorrect, i don't literally mean 'it's wrong'". Do you know the definition of the word "incorrect"? It means false, not true, inaccurate. It means "wrong". If you say that it's incorrect to believe that Aspies have difficulties with empathizing then the only logical conclusion is that they do not have such difficulties. Which is not true. But the statements you're making make it sound true.
I hope i explained above . (In terms of empathy anyway).
When i actually post 'information incorrect', I don't literally mean it. I mean some is, but i mean it in more of a way that the reader realise that not everything they read is correct:

Aka, All Aspergers are different. Don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them.
You also said: "This is how i acquire my information - not from reading books, but from different people." Then why the hell do you go around saying that (and I quote you!) "I've found most textbooks hold incorrect information"?! If you don't even read about Asperger's then how on Earth can you say that the books are wrong?!
Sorry, let me rephrase - I've read a few books on AS, 'All Cats have Aspergers' etc. I've helped my Mum spend many hours browsing the internet for help and information.

But I've not read information for a long-while, mostly now because I work with Autism and because reading a lot of the information would be repetitive. The majority of stuff related to Autism i now read, are on forums or articles linked to me by Aspie's. Or the information i learn comes directly from Aspie's. But there have been a few books i've glimpsed over - citing many horrendous things close again to 'Aspergers does not exist and it's all in their mind'.

The majority of my reading comes 5 years ago - and tbh, a lot of the information has changed now. It's a lot less rigid and a lot less giving the impression that Aspie's are emotionless robots which is really the vibe that i got when reading.
From this it seems that you do understand that there are differences and not all people with AS are the same; some have difficulties with empathy/imagination and some don't. Yet you don't acknowledge that (at least I haven't seen it yet), you say it's incorrect to assume that Aspies can't be empathetic and then you give an example about your brother who apparently can be. If you know that people with Asperger's are all different then why don't you just say that? Why do you keep making definitive statements like the ones I've already mentioned, which are in fact wrong? There's a lot of confusion about what AS is like as it is and it seems to me that you're only adding to it by saying things that are incorrect and, based on your responses in this thread, not even what you actually mean.
As for the underlined part - lack of empathy doesn't mean "lack of emotions".
Well generally with the lack of empathy - comes this general feeling of lack of emotions too. Lack of sympathy, lack of feeling, lack of anything...emotional. I can see why people feel Aspie's are like this - but what is seen isn't what is true.

And i'm pretty sure I have said countless times that all Aspie's are different? It's something i firmly try to endorse and firmly believe in and is a massive point I want to create with this site/wiki. It's why i tend to give anecdotes, rather than just stating. But i mean the exact same thing.

Well, I'm not much of an exception, I'd like to fit in too, you know. But many of us don't just like the drinking part, we don't like the whole clubbing/going out kind of thing. And when you're a weirdo who doesn't like these kinds of things then you're almost instantly excluded. When I got to university, I accepted an invitation to go get some takeout. Of course I really sucked at it - I couldn't really converse with anyone (best I could do was parrot someone else's "what course are you doing?"), I didn't understand their jokes, I didn't care for their topics of conversation, I was totally weirded out when the others suggested slumber party (then and there) to "bond", and I think my leaving without saying a thing to anyone was bit of a social faux pas. I was asked to go to a bar the next day and I turned them down. That was the extent of my communication with my flatmates until I moved out several months later. I was instantly ostracized because I wasn't what most young adults consider "normal". How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need. I mean, if you get as far as to be actually invited to go out and you actually do go (a big achievement for someone with AS), then it doesn't take all that much brain power to realize that you can pass orange juice for a Screwdriver.
Yeah - It was why i posted some of the alcohol related topics.
The thing is i want to have these strategies and ideas there, if people so want them.

My close friend who that email in my first post was written too, doesn't like much drinking either and it definitely seems a strong theme for those with Aspergers.
One of the psychologists i spoke to also told him to be careful with drinking too must and getting 'wasted' because it beings out the 'differences'. She didn't tell him in a way of 'don't do it' but just a 'be careful, may not happen with you, but it's a common thing'.

How can I avoid that? How can I make sure that it doesn't happen again this year? How can I be accepted by others and be included without having to engage in activities (clubbing, drinking) that I really do not like (a.k.a. hate, despise, find pointless to infinity in power of ten)? I think strategies to help deal with such situations is what people really need.
And that's exactly what i want . It was one of the main reasons i was posting on this student site - because I was hoping some people with AS later on in their degrees may be able to offer some advice or coping strategies for exactly this.

I have one person whom is in second year, just finishing now. He massively disliked clubbing but eventually found one club he doesn't mind. He'll go out and have one drink, and now his friends have accepted this(before they could be a bit aggressive in trying to get him to drink). I think being open and getting his AS diagnosis helped.

What course do you do btw? I've found the Computer Society and related societies don't do much drinking - most of them don't like it at all (and there also seems to be a lot of AS type people in them). They don't just do things computer related, but things like going to the cinema, museums, film nights, gaming nights, a chilled evening going to a quiet bar however most will only have one drink if that. And a large portion of people in the computing society don't do computing . Other related societies are things like RPG societies which entail board games like dungeons and dragons.

Perhaps something like that would suit you better? In addition, most people seem to grow out more of the drinking/clubbing in second and third year. So hopefully that will help a bit?

Either way - If there's any advice you think you could offer to Aspie's starting out in University, please share - I'm sure those very anxious about University will appreciate it.
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Peregrinum
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(Original post by AshleyT)
Perhaps my wording is not quite what i mean - I mean for example on the internet, the information that people with AS do not empathise under any circumstances. And this is incorrect, because some do!

When i actually post 'information incorrect', I don't literally mean it. I mean some is, but i mean it in more of a way that the reader realise that not everything they read is correct:
Aka, All Aspergers are different. Don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them.
If something is not true then it must be false. So when there is a statement on the internet saying "people with Asperger's often have difficulties with empathizing" and you say that's not correct then the only logical conclusion is that "people with AS do not have difficulties with empathizing". There's no other way to spin it, there's no middle ground in true vs false. What you could say is that not all people with AS have problems with empathizing or eye contact or sarcasm, etc. Yet you don't say that, you don't say there's diversity, you don't actually say that people are different, instead you say "don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them". So when someone reads a list of AS symptoms and then reads you saying that "what you've read is not correct for every single one of them" then because you use the phrase "not correct" the only rational conclusion is that the list contains lies. Now, I have never seen any flat out lies about AS (incorrect assumptions yes, but people looking for information tend to turn to more "official" resources). Unlike what you said I've never encountered any piece of information saying that Aspies don't/can't do X "under any circumstances".

You say that the way you phrase things doesn't quite reflect what you think. Don't you think it should? People with AS are literal. I use words and phrases in their textbook definitions. When I read something I only read the words in front of me and I understand it based on the definitions of those words, I don't "read between the lines". How are people with AS - who are supposed to be your audience - meant to understand what you mean if you don't use clear unambiguous language? If you say "X is incorrect", but actually mean "not incorrect per se, but this sign may not be found in all with AS" then how are people supposed to know what you mean instead of what you write? Mindreading doesn't exist, not for anyone. And it really doesn't exist on the internet where all you're really communicating with is a block of text.

(Original post by AshleyT)
Either way - If there's any advice you think you could offer to Aspie's starting out in University, please share - I'm sure those very anxious about University will appreciate it.
Here's some: go out clubbing in the middle of the night, drink yourself to the point of vomiting along with everyone else. Doesn't matter if those activities are pointless to the max for you and unlike everyone else you find them to be the antithesis of "fun", if you don't do it you'll be shunned by the "normal" cool kids. Or just go to university in a country where freshmen are more mature than the British counterparts and where the whole youth culture isn't centered around drinking yourself under the table.

PS. I will be doing biochemistry.
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laeof
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(Original post by Peregrinum)
If something is not true then it must be false. So when there is a statement on the internet saying "people with Asperger's often have difficulties with empathizing" and you say that's not correct then the only logical conclusion is that "people with AS do not have difficulties with empathizing". There's no other way to spin it, there's no middle ground in true vs false. What you could say is that not all people with AS have problems with empathizing or eye contact or sarcasm, etc. Yet you don't say that, you don't say there's diversity, you don't actually say that people are different, instead you say "don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them". So when someone reads a list of AS symptoms and then reads you saying that "what you've read is not correct for every single one of them" then because you use the phrase "not correct" the only rational conclusion is that the list contains lies. Now, I have never seen any flat out lies about AS (incorrect assumptions yes, but people looking for information tend to turn to more "official" resources). Unlike what you said I've never encountered any piece of information saying that Aspies don't/can't do X "under any circumstances".

You say that the way you phrase things doesn't quite reflect what you think. Don't you think it should? People with AS are literal. I use words and phrases in their textbook definitions. When I read something I only read the words in front of me and I understand it based on the definitions of those words, I don't "read between the lines". How are people with AS - who are supposed to be your audience - meant to understand what you mean if you don't use clear unambiguous language? If you say "X is incorrect", but actually mean "not incorrect per se, but this sign may not be found in all with AS" then how are people supposed to know what you mean instead of what you write? Mindreading doesn't exist, not for anyone. And it really doesn't exist on the internet where all you're really communicating with is a block of text.



Here's some: go out clubbing in the middle of the night, drink yourself to the point of vomiting along with everyone else. Doesn't matter if those activities are pointless to the max for you and unlike everyone else you find them to be the antithesis of "fun", if you don't do it you'll be shunned by the "normal" cool kids. Or just go to university in a country where freshmen are more mature than the British counterparts and where the whole youth culture isn't centered around drinking yourself under the table.

PS. I will be doing biochemistry.
Don't you think it should? People with AS are literal
My posts arn't usually aimed at AS people, usually Neurotypicals, so i'm not usually thinking about how my posts can be misinterpreted because whom they are usually aimed at. Thank-you though for pointing this out, i'll try to be much more mindful of this. I do make mistakes, which is one of the reasons I want help for those with AS to do this website - So they can point out exactly where things may be misinterpreted and help with the wording .


If something is not true then it must be false.
There are middle grounds though - It is true Aspie's do have trouble emapthysing, but it is not true ALL aspie's have trouble empathising. It is not true all Aspie's cant understand sarcasm.

It may be so in early years, but a lot of adults seem to learn ways of detecting sarcasm and coping. For some, they may perfect it. Like i remember my mother trying to get a list of every common metaphoric phrase - and memorising it.

"don't assume what you've read is correct for every single one of them
Which is the same thing?

Incorrect assumptions is basically what I mean by incorrect information. Sorry. Thank-you for pointing out where things may be misinterpreted. It took me a while there to realise where my statement was incorrect and you've just helped point it out.

On that note, if i Pm'd you occasionally, would you be happy to read through some of the content to make sure it's fine for those reading it? (AS people more importantly). It'd me much appreciated. The more people I get the better - because how one person may misinterpret, another may not and the vice versa.

I want to make sure information is the best possible, one of the reasons why i'm getting a few AS people to write things.

If not, no worries.
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