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    (Original post by Manatee)
    There is no reason why the subjunctive should be avoided in spoken French - to do so would result in gramatically incorrect French. Having said that, overusing it is equally bad.
    Absolutely.

    You can get away with not understanding or using the subjunctive in English. If you insist on saying "If I was you...," people will understand you, although many will consider your grasp of English to be rather poor.

    In French, on the other hand, if you use the indicative when the subjunctive is required, everyone will be horrified. "Il faut que je fais mes devoirs" will get a :eek: from any French speaker - on a par with "I has to does my homework..."
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    (Original post by Manatee)
    I think that perhaps you are confusing the subjunctive with the passé simple which is only used for written French but is never used when speaking...
    Nope, I was just confused by the subjunctive statements in the previous posts and with avoiding the subjunctive I meant that I'd avoid constructions that require the subjunctive and not the use of the subjunctive in sentences that requier its use.
    Passé simple? Right, this nasty little time also exists...To be honest, I even struggle to tell you the infinitive of a verb in passé simple, not to talk about using it myself.
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    (Original post by Pravin)
    Sorry I made a mistake when saying that "Subjonctive isn't really used in informal spoken English" I meant french not english, my mistake. Yeah you're right eleri we do use Il faut que je fasse quite freqently. However, what is reserved to formal french is to start a sentence with a subjontive ex: Que je sois.... No student would say that for example. But it's fine for essays of course.
    Fair enough. No, I wouldn't use something like "Que je sois" in spoken French either.

    But the formulaic ones like "Il faut...", "Bien que", etc are just plain necessary for anyone who will be doing interviews. I agree with Manatee that overusing it wouldn't look good either though - forcing yourself to construct your speech around certain subjunctive "triggers" will just make your conversation stilted.

    --------------

    (Original post by Jammertal)
    Passé simple? Right, this nasty little time also exists...To be honest, I even struggle to tell you the infinitive of a verb in passé simple, not to talk about using it myself.
    Ugh, I can't STAND the passe simple. Four years of studying and I STILL struggle to decide which past tense to use when translating into French, and it's that one that confuses me the most. I understand all the rules, but trying to put them into practise... I'll probably fail exams over this!
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    (Original post by eleri)
    But the formulaic ones like "Il faut...", "Bien que", etc are just plain necessary for anyone who will be doing interviews.
    Exactly. Using a subjunctive at the start of the sentence (e.g. after the constructions suggested above) is no different from using it in the middle or at the end of one. The subjunctive really is a completely natural part of French, whether spoken or written.
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    (Original post by leannemarie)
    Réfléchissons d’abord à
    Il s’agit de
    D’autres critiques portent sur
    Un avant-goût de ce qui pourrait survenir
    Poser un problème crucial
    La question est de savoir
    Cela peut s’expliquer par plusieurs facteurs
    Proposer une piste de réflexion
    Il faut s’interroger sur le sens de
    Il convient de se demander

    On peut constater que
    Souligner l’importance de
    Le plus frappant ici est
    Il est à noter que
    Il faut tenir compte du fait que
    Il faut insister sur le fait que
    Il y a de fortes chances que (+ subj)
    Cela me paraît évident que

    Cela me conduit à penser
    Il ne faut pas s’étonner que (+subj)
    Cela saute aux yeux
    Il va de soi que
    Il nous permet d’avoir
    Il nous donne une idée
    Il nous fait voir
    Se trouve dans le scénario où
    La scène dans laquelle
    Cela signifie que

    Tenant pour acquis que
    Étant donné que
    Vu que

    En raison de
    Il s’avère que
    À en juger par
    En/de plus
    En addition
    A cela s’ajoute

    Pourtant
    Cependant
    Néanmoins

    Par contre
    A l’inverse
    En revanche

    En matière de
    En ce qui concerne
    A l’égard de
    Il est possible que + subj.
    Un aperçu
    D’avoir quitté
    Sans doute
    Le déroulement
    Après avoir
    Cela suggère que

    Bien que + subj.
    Après que + subj.
    Prepositions (sans + inf.)
    Adverbs
    Si clause
    Passive
    Rhetorical questions
    Ne sont que (other negatives)

    Now there's a list!
    Admittedly, some are stolen from Mot à Mot. But they are a list of things that I have got marks for in practice cwk essays. We get ticks for register and manipulation which is how the cwk is marked and these are things that have got a tick with either 'R' or 'M' written next to them (for manipulation or register)
    Reckon you could translate all those for us french-speaking wannabes? :clap2: :clap2:
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    (Original post by alexjoh1)
    before this list is copied and pasted into a word document and then printed so i can carry it everywhere i go hehe slight exaggeration but you get the gist, i'm fairly sure (positive) that 'après que' is not followed by the subjunctive, so it's something less to worry about! it's a point of grammar than even the french make as an error! 'avant que' however is!
    We've always been told apres que (sorry, I know the accent is missing!) is followed by subjunctive... Both my French teachers (one is French, and other lived in France for about 5 years) and our French assistant have said apres que is followed by subjunctive...

    (Original post by The Orientalist)
    Subjunctive isn't really used in informal spoken French....It's the trade mark of a more, formal french.
    Again, we've been told subjunctive isn't really that formal, and is used in general conversation... Even if it isn't, at least in the speaking exam I would use it anyway (if needed!) because otherwise the examiner might think you don't know that you need subjunctive and mark you down....
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    (Original post by DoctorsCompanion:))
    We've always been told apres que (sorry, I know the accent is missing!) is followed by subjunctive... Both my French teachers (one is French, and other lived in France for about 5 years) and our French assistant have said apres que is followed by subjunctive...



    Again, we've been told subjunctive isn't really that formal, and is used in general conversation... Even if it isn't, at least in the speaking exam I would use it anyway (if needed!) because otherwise the examiner might think you don't know that you need subjunctive and mark you down....
    Wow, old topic is old.

    But since you're wrong and your teachers are, I thought I'd correct you: Après que is followed by the indicative. The reason being that Après que implies the thing has happened for sure, it's a fact, hence why the subjunctive which implies possibility, doubt and all that is not appropriate.

    It is true however that many French people think that after que they should use the subjunctive (I probably said it myself too somewhere in this very forum some time ago when I was mistaken!), but it's wrong.

    The other remark about the subjunctive is correct though: unless you are using the old and dying forms such as the past subjunctive (qu'il eusse fait...) which will make you sound either ridiculous or haughty, the use of the subjunctive is common since we use it in many phrases.
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    (Original post by alexjoh1)
    i'm fairly sure (positive) that 'après que' is not followed by the subjunctive, so it's something less to worry about! it's a point of grammar than even the french make as an error! 'avant que' however is!

    it is followed by the subjunctive
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    (Original post by bertie76)
    it is followed by the subjunctive
    it isn't.

    'Je le ferai après qu'il partira'.


    avant que, is, however.
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    Great write up. I am beginner of learning French language. I have taken various courses to learn French. I have made a note of useful french phrase from you . I think it is best way to improve skill by learning phrase as well as vocabulary.
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    (Original post by petitflam)
    it isn't.

    'Je le ferai après qu'il partira'.


    avant que, is, however.
    Après que and avant que are followed by the subjunctive, the only difference is that après que traditionally took the indicative, but is nowadays followed by the subjunctive, whereas avant que has always taken subjunctive. (Yes I know this is an argument from 5 years ago, but whatever)
 
 
 
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