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    (Original post by Sirlooney)
    Im living in wales at the moment while im at uni, its alot calmer than the west midlands and i can walk down the street without feel intimidated. There is a nice sence of community here and very few diverse people. Ive had enough learning about other cultures all the way through school without learning anything about mine. You would think while i was at school i should of learnt about the British empire considering it was and still the biggest emipre that there has been. But no i had to learn about Red Indians and the Chinese. :rolleyes:
    i agree with you to be quite honest. i lived in wales till i was 10 and now i've been in the wesmids ever since.
    I miss wales and when i go back things are so much calmer, i don't get insults from accross the street and i certainly don't get racist remarks hurled at me.
    we had to make mivali cards to, and in my history class's... most people that know me think i never payed any attention is school cause i literaly know so little about the uk its aweful. ask me about black slavery tho... we done that for 2 years.
    (* i know i'm ***** but i got so sick of it at my old school)
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    It seems the muslims are quite happy to accept the diversity when it works in their favour whilst trying to eradicate our rights through the use of political correctness.
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    It seems the muslims are quite happy to accept the diversity when it works in their favour whilst trying to eradicate our rights through the use of political correctness.
    Good point, and one which people hide away from saying.
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    It does have to be said that Straight-White-English-fully able-christian/atheist-men are losing their rights thick and fast and are becoming the most persicuted group of people in this country.
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    (Original post by Brown Eyed Girl)
    i agree with you to be quite honest. i lived in wales till i was 10 and now i've been in the wesmids ever since.
    I miss wales and when i go back things are so much calmer, i don't get insults from accross the street and i certainly don't get racist remarks hurled at me.
    we had to make mivali cards to, and in my history class's... most people that know me think i never payed any attention is school cause i literaly know so little about the uk its aweful. ask me about black slavery tho... we done that for 2 years.
    (* i know i'm ***** but i got so sick of it at my old school)

    Isn't ashame that you dont know much about you country's history, it's just to make people less proud of there country, so it is easyer for government to sell the diversity/multiculturism idea.Remember if the government can lie about Iraq they can lie about anything. If the police can lie about the shooting of the Brazilian they can lie about anything. It's sick and there is nothing at the moment we can do about it.

    --------------

    It does have to be said that Straight-White-English-fully able-christian/atheist-men are losing their rights thick and fast and are becoming the most persicuted group of people in this country.
    what do you think should be done about it ?
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    (Original post by Sirlooney)
    what do you think should be done about it ?
    I'm not really sure that anything can be done about it at all.
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    i hate not knowing it cause its actualy embaressing!
    in conversations were things of the past come up i just try and disapear!
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    I haven't read anything authoritative on this whole PC Christmas thing, but can someone clarify:

    Are people saying (for example) that Christmas lights shouldn't be called Christmas lights at all, anywhere?

    I mean, I can perhaps empathise with not decorating a workplace for christmas; if you didn't celebrate it and it was alien to you, it could be a little intimidating, or if you actively opposed it, you wouldn't like it.
    But in your own home it's your own choice what you do; you know what the people living there want.

    So, in public places, I can understand some people wanting it dimmed down, but wanting the term christmas lights, or even christmas itself removed completely is stupid; if we decorate our town centres, they are forced to experience it, but us using the term, or purchasing a christmas product has no effect on them so we should be allowed to do it if we so please.

    I'm not so keen on the "it's our country, we can do what we want". There are plenty of British Muslims, Buddists, Atheists, whatever. We emphasis the importance of improvement and diversity; a multi-racial nation is a sign of that and something we should embrace. I'm not a Christian; I don't get offended by Christmas imagery all over my town right now, but I do understand that some people would be. So from my viewpoint, people who want it stopped are over reacting, but I'm not going to say people who object are wrong. But you can't just tell people they can't use phrases associated with their celebrated time of year, as long as they don't impose them on you. If we limited our vocabulary to things that didn't offend anyone else, we wouldn't be able to say very much at all.

    I also disagree with the "it's a Christian country" view. That doesn't mean all other religions should be discredited, ignored and openly offended.
    Extreme example; say your company was taken over by a neo-nazi and nazi propaganda, and violent anti-homosexual posters were put up everywhere. You'd be uncomfortable working there and shouldn't have to put up with that in your workplace.
    If you were actively against the story, morals, or beliefs behind it, you would also be offended by having your workplace decorated like that.
    Where is the difference?
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    (Original post by KingLeigh)
    I also disagree with the "it's a Christian country" view. That doesn't mean all other religions should be discredited, ignored and openly offended.
    Extreme example; say your company was taken over by a neo-nazi and nazi propaganda, and violent anti-homosexual posters were put up everywhere. You'd be uncomfortable working there and shouldn't have to put up with that in your workplace.
    If you were actively against the story, morals, or beliefs behind it, you would also be offended by having your workplace decorated like that.
    Where is the difference?
    If i was against the story then i just wouldnt move to the country where the story was upheld as part of their culture, hence the reason i would never consider moving to zimbabwe whilst their national tradition at the moment appears to be killing white people. How can you go to a country foriegn to your own and impose your will thats what the aims of war are.
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    In England there is much 'political correctness' - it stops you doing things and seem very unfair to real English peoples. In Poland we have little because we have mostly Polish peoples and we get along well, but in England you have many blacks, jews and azjaci (I don't know English word here) and don't get together well like in Poland. But soon Poland will have many Turkey people because when Turkey is in EU they will come to Poland
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    Apparently the Mirror reported that hundreds of employers were to cancel Christmas staff parties, presumably for reasons of "PC".

    Later, it was then made clear that the Mirror group were refusing to shell out for any staff Christmas parties.

    There's a message in there somewhere, kids. Ha, ha.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    If i was against the story then i just wouldnt move to the country where the story was upheld as part of their culture, hence the reason i would never consider moving to zimbabwe whilst their national tradition at the moment appears to be killing white people. How can you go to a country foriegn to your own and impose your will thats what the aims of war are.
    What if you were born in England, raised in England, had your family, friends, job in England but just so happened to not share the beliefs of the "masses"? I'm an atheist, as you know, but not a radical one. I could just as easy be a Buddist, and not a radical one, and it wouldn't bother me. But plenty of people, like I know plenty of strict Christians who swear by all of Christian traditions, are strict Buddists and would disagree with all the practises of it. I'm sure I could find a strict neo-nazi if I looked hard enough.
    It doesn't even have to stop as religion. Why should your views of any kind be oppressed just because they aren't that of the masses? You don't agree with homosexuality (not intending to take it to a personal level), but say a homosexual prime minister took charge of the country and that became the done thing, you shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome until you moved to a hetrosexual run country.
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    You have to remember that in a lot of instances, these ridiculous ideas aren't coming from any particular religious or ethnic groups themselves. With regard to the renaming of Christmas lights to "Winter lights", I believe that the Muslim council of great britain were as perplexed as anyone else over this decision.
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    (Original post by KingLeigh)
    What if you were born in England, raised in England, had your family, friends, job in England but just so happened to not share the beliefs of the "masses"? I'm an atheist, as you know, but not a radical one. I could just as easy be a Buddist, and not a radical one, and it wouldn't bother me. But plenty of people, like I know plenty of strict Christians who swear by all of Christian traditions, are strict Buddists and would disagree with all the practises of it. I'm sure I could find a strict neo-nazi if I looked hard enough.
    It doesn't even have to stop as religion. Why should your views of any kind be oppressed just because they aren't that of the masses? You don't agree with homosexuality (not intending to take it to a personal level), but say a homosexual prime minister took charge of the country and that became the done thing, you shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome until you moved to a hetrosexual run country.
    But i just think people can celebrate any tradition they like however they like whenever they like, i mean sure if i went down town and they were playing non-stop bangra music it would piss me off but i wouldnt throw my toys out of my pram about it, especially if i was in the minority of a country that i wasn't entirely effilated to. Its more of an English tradition than anything else nowadays so they shouldn't have a problem with it being celebrated. Its tradition that forms the basis of every countrys foundations and its just rude to try and change it once your a full member of the said country. I also wouldn't care if a PM decided to get F'd in the A in his private life aslong as he did a good job, but if homosexuality became a custom of this country then i don't think it would last much longer because babys wouldnt be made.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    But i just think people can celebrate any tradition they like however they like whenever they like, i mean sure if i went down town and they were playing non-stop bangra music it would piss me off but i wouldnt throw my toys out of my pram about it,
    This is a debate, not a place for personal grievances, but Mark, yes you would.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    ...especially if i was in the minority of a country that i wasn't entirely effilated to.
    And if you were entirely affiliated to it, what then? I'm not a Christian living in a Christian country, and I am 100% affiliated to it, as are many Muslims who don't like the idea of christmas and having it shoved in their faces, like you wouldn't with indian music.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Its more of an English tradition than anything else nowadays so they shouldn't have a problem with it being celebrated. Its tradition that forms the basis of every countrys foundations and its just rude to try and change it once your a full member of the said country.
    If tradition forms the basis of every country, we should be traditional and still live in caves. Why don't we? Improvement, just like you said yourself. You have contradicted yourself here. For a balanced country, we need improvement, in this case in the form of acceptance of other religions, and if you so desire, the ability fo follow your own traditions. Indian music is part of their tradition but you wouldn't want it played in your face while you were shopping just as they may not want to see dedications to a false idol all over their shopping centres.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I also wouldn't care if a PM decided to get F'd in the A in his private life aslong as he did a good job, but if homosexuality became a custom of this country then i don't think it would last much longer because babys wouldnt be made.
    You have taken that out of context. It's not about how long it would last due to the biological effects, it's the fact that you can be 100% affiliated with a country and not follow the views of the masses. You said if they don't like it they should move out of the country, which is an absurd opinion; as much as suggesting you should leave the country just because a view you don't agree with becomes 'the norm'.
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    (Original post by bodhisattva)
    You have to remember that in a lot of instances, these ridiculous ideas aren't coming from any particular religious or ethnic groups themselves. With regard to the renaming of Christmas lights to "Winter lights", I believe that the Muslim council of great britain were as perplexed as anyone else over this decision.
    Indeed. It's mostly local councils s**tting themselves hoping they don't offend the ethnic minorities/majorities (depending on where they are) and don't take into consideration what they actually think.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    Indeed. It's mostly local councils s**tting themselves hoping they don't offend the ethnic minorities/majorities (depending on where they are) and don't take into consideration what they actually think.
    But in your argument, the "they" is the Muslim council. In the same way the government probably don't represent 100% of your personal views, or the Pope does, or the Queen, or whoever you see as your head of the organisation from which you take many of your personal beliefs, they will not represent the views of all Muslims; just because they don't see it as a big deal, doesn't mean others won't.

    We cannot please everyone, but I'd say being a little more neutral and welcoming affects a lot less people than not taking other peoples' views into account at all.
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    (Original post by KingLeigh)
    This is a debate, not a place for personal grievances, but Mark, yes you would.


    And if you were entirely affiliated to it, what then? I'm not a Christian living in a Christian country, and I am 100% affiliated to it, as are many Muslims who don't like the idea of christmas and having it shoved in their faces, like you wouldn't with indian music.


    If tradition forms the basis of every country, we should be traditional and still live in caves. Why don't we? Improvement, just like you said yourself. You have contradicted yourself here. For a balanced country, we need improvement, in this case in the form of acceptance of other religions, and if you so desire, the ability fo follow your own traditions. Indian music is part of their tradition but you wouldn't want it played in your face while you were shopping just as they may not want to see dedications to a false idol all over their shopping centres.



    You have taken that out of context. It's not about how long it would last due to the biological effects, it's the fact that you can be 100% affiliated with a country and not follow the views of the masses. You said if they don't like it they should move out of the country, which is an absurd opinion; as much as suggesting you should leave the country just because a view you don't agree with becomes 'the norm'.
    Traditions evolve, i wouldn't openly embrace their customs in this country but i wouldnt stop them from celebrating them all over the place. I don't want them to leave the country it is as much theirs as it is ours but they account for 10% of the country and are trying to make a significant change to it. Christmas hasn't just become the norm it has been here for ageeeess the norm evolves as i said above and upon deciding to move to this country they have decided to embrace our traditions.We are talking about people getting arsy over a christmas lights and trees for god sake how in anyway is that a false idol. They might not want to see dedications to false idols but they live in a country where their are churchs all over the place its the way of life in this country and is the frame work by which the country moves, we have holidays around Christian traditions and thats just the way it is. Nobody has the right to change it.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It does have to be said that Straight-White-English-fully able-christian/atheist-men are losing their rights thick and fast and are becoming the most persicuted group of people in this country.
    What a load of rubbish.

    EVERYONE disagrees with political correctness. It has very few meaningful politcal effects though. It's just an excuse for people to hate.

    Fly your flags, hang your lights, put up your trees and SHUT UP.
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    (Original post by gideon2000uk)
    What a load of rubbish.

    EVERYONE disagrees with political correctness. It has very few meaningful politcal effects though. It's just an excuse for people to hate.

    Fly your flags, hang your lights, put up your trees and SHUT UP.
    You don't seem to understand the concept of a debate so i suggest you shut up.
 
 
 
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