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    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    First of all read here...

    Guardian Article

    Well, it appears to me that there is only one way of solving the failure that is multiculturalism in Australia. Any none indigenous ethnicity should leave. I'm sure the native aboriginals are disgusted with the way foreigners have created so much tension.
    Wow! What a great idea. Maybe everyone apart from the native idians should leave america too that would solve everyone's problems.... Not! Not everyone in Australia believes and acts like the rioters do. Believing that is the sort of thing that starts acism in the first place. Ethnic diversity should be embraced not discouraged.
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    (Original post by kay50)
    Wow! What a great idea. Maybe everyone apart from the native idians should leave america too that would solve everyone's problems.... Not! Not everyone in Australia believes and acts like the rioters do. Believing that is the sort of thing that starts acism in the first place. Ethnic diversity should be embraced not discouraged.
    You've clearly missed the point of this thread.
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    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    Alright then, how can anybody claim to have ethnic ownership of land then? Surely those that own it are those that paid for it?
    Why does anyone have to claim ethnic ownership of land?
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    Mobs of Anglo-Celtics have been attacking men and women of
    Middle-Eastern and Arabic appearance in the southern suburbs of Sydney.
    Muslim women have been beaten and have had their hijabs ripped off their heads.

    This is the result of years of underlying racial tension and anti-Muslim sentiment that has been cleverly manipulated and fanned by our conservative prime minister, John Howard for political purposes. His implicit espousal of the most racist elements of our society has given him a record-breaking number of prime-ministerships and unquestioned political supremacy in parliment and the party room. Now that mendacious politician appeals for tolerance !

    "Race riots broke out for a second night in Sydney tonight despite appeals from the prime minister, John Howard, for ethnic and religious tolerance.

    Police said gangs of youths from outside the southern beach suburb of Cronulla had driven through the town smashing shop windows and damaging houses and flats in apparent revenge attacks for yesterday's violence.

    Local media said gangs of up to 200 men had been attacking people in the streets, knocking some unconscious. A large gang also descended on a local mosque in the district of Maroubra, but it was protected by up to 20 police cars. Officers reportedly confiscated iron bars and other weapons from rival gangs.

    Some 5,000 people attended a rally in the area as gangs of young white men began attacking people of Middle Eastern appearance. The fighting spread to other areas of Sydney in a series of apparent revenge attacks by members of the Muslim community.

    The riots left more than 30 people injured, including police and medical staff, and led to 16 arrests. One man was taken to hospital after being stabbed.

    Last night Morris Iemma, the Labour premier of New South Wales, said police would hunt down those responsible for starting the riots, which authorities believe were encouraged by neo-Nazis."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/...665366,00.html
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    Sickening scenes. I've just heard one guy say "You're not welcome here; this is our land, get out". Well, I'm sure the indigenous aboriginal population feels the same way. Silly, provincial, fat Australian.
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    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    Sickening scenes. I've just heard one guy say "You're not welcome here; this is our land, get out". Well, I'm sure the indigenous aboriginal population feels the same way. Silly, provincial, fat Australian.
    Racism is never far from the surface in Australia.

    Ethnic groups are massively underrepresented in leading university faculties, the professions, politics, tv presenters, police and other positions of power or prestige. Comparing the number of brown or Middle-Eastern faces on the faculties of Sydney Uni and University of Western Sydney ( an ex-poly) is instructive.

    This will not change in our generation.
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    This news item from the Syney Morning Herald takes some beating!

    Radio 2GB, headed by Sydney's most popular breakfast morning radio host encouraged people to head to the beach to take part in the riots - what would happen to any mainstream radio programme in this country that incited the same action?

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...236005956.html

    And the blame for the racist climate in Australia can be laid at the door of John Howard - in the opinion of many aussies. When's their next election? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by poohbear)
    Racism is never far from the surface in Australia.

    Ethnic groups are massively underrepresented in leading university faculties, the professions, politics, tv presenters, police and other positions of power or prestige. Comparing the number of brown or Middle-Eastern faces on the faculties of Sydney Uni and University of Western Sydney ( an ex-poly) is instructive.

    This will not change in our generation.
    The trouble with Sydney is that it is ghetto-ised between the western suburbs populated by non-white migrants and the eastern suburbs populated by whites. The cultures are not diverse as they are in Melbourne which is multi-culturally diversed.

    According to my brother who lives in Australia, the news broadcast was showing the uneducated racist yobs thronging the beaches and shouting out that this was their land and for the Lebanese to get the hell out of Australia. A passing aborigine shouted "what the hell are you talking about, you lot took my land from me!"
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    (Original post by yawn)
    "what the hell are you talking about, you lot took my land from me!"
    And therein is my problem. If we work on far-right logic, the only peaceful way of resolving this would be for the non-indigenous population to return to their ethnic homeland, with financial incentives that is.
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    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    And therein is my problem. If we work on far-right logic, the only peaceful way of resolving this would be for the non-indigenous population to return to their ethnic homeland, with financial incentives that is.
    We don't want them back here! Put them in a massive boat prison and send them out into the Pacific.
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    (Original post by poohbear)
    Racism is never far from the surface in Australia.

    Ethnic groups are massively underrepresented in leading university faculties, the professions, politics, tv presenters, police and other positions of power or prestige. Comparing the number of brown or Middle-Eastern faces on the faculties of Sydney Uni and University of Western Sydney ( an ex-poly) is instructive.

    This will not change in our generation.
    Not while John Howard pretends there no problems anyway...

    --------------

    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    And therein is my problem. If we work on far-right logic, the only peaceful way of resolving this would be for the non-indigenous population to return to their ethnic homeland, with financial incentives that is.
    I'm sorry, but do you know what you are talking about? Because there are no "pure blood" Aboriginal people left, you can't 'put' them back in their homeland. What needs to be done is the problem needs to be tackled and racism, especially in the Media needs to be questioned.
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    JonD, this is balanced, blames both tribes for the recent fun and games:
    What has happened on consecutive weekends has been displays of two unpalatable subcultures, the yobbo beach tribes, and the Lebanese gangsta tribes. The reactions to the Cronulla brawl will be predictable. The disgusting behaviour of the Aussie yobs, behaving even worse than the original provocateurs last week, will prompt a great deal of ululating about Australian's undertow of racism. This will be countered by a demand for recognition that violent crime in Sydney is disproportionately dominated by Lebanese, Aborigines and Pacific Islanders and Australians have had a gutful of the pandering to these groups.
    Both sides will be right.

    You only have to look at the events at Coogee RSL club in 2002 to know that Australian beach culture has its ugly underbelly. And it would be folly to airbrush away the reality that what started the Cronulla tensions was yet another provocation by the aggressive, repugnant Lebanese gangsta culture - itself an alien subculture within the Lebanese community - which has given Sydney dozens of shootings and murders, a spate of gang rapes, hundreds of sexual assaults, and thousands of deliberate racist provocations at Darling Harbour, the eastern and southern beaches and some of the big clubs in western Sydney, along with Canterbury Bulldogs rugby league matches.
    At its worst, this culture had overtones of civil war, as the Kanaan gang sprayed the Lakemba police station with gunfire. One of those who took part in this attack was Saleh Jamal, now in jail in Lebanon on weapons charges. He has turned to Islamic fundamentalism and wanted to explode a terrorist bomb in Sydney before he fled the country.

    The cops hate and fear the swarming packs of Lebanese who respond when some of their numbers are confronted, mobilising quickly via mobile phones and showing open contempt for Australian law. All this is the real world, as distinct from the world preferred by ideological academics who talk about "moral panic" and the oppression of Muslims. They will see only Australian racism as the problem.
    Others will see only "Lebs". Cronulla yesterday proved it is not possible to airbrush the yob culture out of the picture, but the problem is not the figment of fertile imaginations. This has been too real for too long. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/...44.html?page=2
    Majority Rights have been covering it here, here and here with good comments, including from a Lebanese.

    And there’s background here:
    Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohamad, 34, has been quoted by a newspaper as telling a lecture at the Bankstown Town Hall, in south-western Sydney, that women who wore skimpy clothing teased men.
    "A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world. Why? No-one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world ...," Sheik Mohamed was quoted as saying in the lecture.
    "Strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses, mini skirts, tight jeans: all this to tease man and appeal to his carnal nature."
    NSW Premier Bob Carr said the sheik could face criminal charges if he made comments which incited rapes. "If anything the sheik says in future appears to be an incitement to the crime of rape ... I just want to assure him that the full force of the criminal law will be brought to bear," he told reporters.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/...62095594.html#
    here:
    A violent gang rapist should have been given a lesser sentence partly because he was a “cultural time bomb” whose attacks were inevitable, as he had emigrated from a country with traditional views of women, his barrister has argued.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...96528939.html#
    here:
    The leader of the nation’s first Muslim political party says all Australians should be living under Islamic law dictated by the Koran.
    The Best Party of Allah in Australia applied for registration in the ACT yesterday, claiming to provide a political voice for Muslims.
    Founder Kurt Kennedy, a Vietnamese-born Muslim convert and candidate in the ACT assembly elections last year, said the party wanted to “implement the laws as stated in the Koran”.
    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives...m_party_se.php
    and here:
    The Sydney gang rapes were a series of four separate crimes which occurred in Sydney in the winter of 2000. The common thread in these cases was that the perpertrators were gangs of young males of Lebanese Muslim origin, while the victims were females of European descent. The perpertrators were alleged to have made racist comments against their victims in the course of the offences, leading some to categorise them as hate crimes. During the trial of one of the offenders, Bilal Skaf, text messages sent on his mobile phone were revealed which contained sentiments such as "When you are feeling down ... bash a Christian or Catholic and lift up".

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclop...ney_gang_rapes
    It’s the blend of deeply ingrained cultural and religious misogyny, a lack of social and cultural capital which will keep them poor, and racial and religious hatred toward other Australians which make these Lebanese unassimilable. Plus, Islam does not assimilate - Islam means submission! The Lebanese guy who comments on the Majority Rights pages says that their hatred and public disrespect toward other cultures would not be permitted in Lebanon. In fact, no majority culture anywhere outside the West allows minorities to immigrate who openly hate the indigenes and wish to overturn their culture and civilisation. That’s just sensible practice. We should try it if we wish to survive as majority peoples with confident cultures. It's not the Lebanese who have the problem, it's all majority White nations who are behaving suicidally.

    Someone on MR asks, "should the Australian Aborigines have welcomed the Brits with open arms and 'embraced the diversity'? Were the Brits doing them a favour?" Same goes...

    Nush, there’s a good page on the racist romanticisation of Aboriginal life here, and a good piece about whether the Australian state should allow it’s Aboriginal population to observe traditional law, here.

    >>Mass-Islamic immigration and the concomitant racially-motivated gang-rape, terrorism, and organised crime, as it affects Australia.
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    (Original post by The Basilisk)
    I HATE the stupid, idiotic white "Australians" who took over Australia and took away the rights from the Aboriginies and raped the women.
    That's a pretty moronic thing to say for a non-white living in an indigenously white country.
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    (Original post by Nysh)
    I was making a point about the cultural contexts. The prison system is a 'white' system and therefore for those of that ideological context, but it's not for those where the cultural values clash.

    I don't have anything against white people. I live (UK) in a white country, and therefore I can't have anything against them.
    You think that people from different cultures, living in the same country, should be treated differently in regards to prison punishment? How 'equal' of you! So, by your terms, if the aborigines were culturally not allowed to be locked up, you wouldn't believe in banging any of them up if they commit crimes?
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    (Original post by poohbear)
    Racism is never far from the surface in Australia.

    Ethnic groups are massively underrepresented in leading university faculties, the professions, politics, tv presenters, police and other positions of power or prestige. Comparing the number of brown or Middle-Eastern faces on the faculties of Sydney Uni and University of Western Sydney ( an ex-poly) is instructive.

    This will not change in our generation.
    The "White Australia Policy" was only fully dismantled and non-White mass immigration begun in the 70s, it's hardly a surprise that new immigrants are still ascending to prominent positions. But about education you're plain wrong, and about racism you're even more wrong.

    Like every other multiracial country there are some Asian groups who quickly excel, and quickly overtake Whites. And some that don't--your "Brown and middle-eastern" people. The difference is there in every White majority country and also across Asia and Africa where these groups share countries - and it shows up when they are alone in their more exclusive homelands. Remarkable how powerful the Aussie beach-boy's racism is!

    These groups rise or sink according to the skills, attitudes and other cultual capital that they carry with them in diaspora. It's simplistic, knee-jerk, unfounded, blinkered (and borderline racist) to blame Whites. If the proof of institutional racism is relative wealth and education then across the Western world Jews, Indians, Chinese and Japanese minorities are oppressing the White majorities. Are they?

    The Sydney Morning Herald:
    The changing face of our professional elite
    By Michael Duffy
    November 12, 2005

    THE big change no one talks about is the growing success of people from Asian backgrounds in the professions. If present rates continue, they could form a majority of Australian professionals within a generation or two. Such an outcome would be unusual: perhaps the first time in history a nation's elite has invited another group to come in and replace it.

    Asians are the first significant group of immigrants to this country to come from, or at least aspire urgently to enter, the middle class. They are far more successful in education than other Australians. For instance, in the 2004 HSC, about 350 of the top 1000 students had Asian surnames. As people of Asian background comprise about 7 per cent of the population, this means they did five times better as a group than other Australians. This success has been going on for more than a decade: in 1993, for example, the figure was 330.

    I don't have figures for all pupils (there are almost no publicly available figures on any aspect of this subject) but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest this level of achievement is reflected in all HSC results and continues into university courses. An article in People and Place by Siew-ean Khoo and Bob Birrell looked at how many males aged 25 to 34 in 1996 had tertiary qualifications. For those with parents born in Australia it was 17.7 per cent, for China 48.8 per cent, and for India 31.3 per cent.

    At university, many courses have well over 7 per cent Asian students. For example, one informed academic told me four years ago that about 50 per cent of entry level dentistry students and a quarter of medical students were from Asian backgrounds. The general pattern is that the numbers are highest in numerate subjects such as IT and accounting, and lower in courses such as law. Whatever the figures might be at the moment, they will increase, as more than 50 per cent of immigrants have come from Asia for many years now.

    Many university students are full-fee foreign students, of whom there are more than 200,000. Between 30 and 40 per cent get visas on graduation. The Government has hardly increased the number of domestic university places since 1996, so these graduates are literally taking jobs that would once have gone to Australian citizens.

    In 1998 foreign full-fee students comprised 34 per cent of all degree completions in IT and 32 per cent in the business/administration/economics field. Last year, 5267 visas were granted to foreign IT graduates at a time when 30 per cent of domestic graduates were having trouble finding work. Madness.

    http://smh.com.au/news/opinion/the-c...578230428.html
    edit:

    Quote:Such an outcome would be unusual: perhaps the first time in history a nation's elite has invited another group to come in and replace it.

    That's the supposed upside of the mass immigration! Handing the elite reins of power to the much more hard-working and ambitious, but deeply ethnocentric Chinese and Indians, while the low-class and profoundly, openly, antagonistic Muslims bottom out the economy and destroy social cohesion.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Radio 2GB, headed by Sydney's most popular breakfast morning radio host encouraged people to head to the beach to take part in the riots - what would happen to any mainstream radio programme in this country that incited the same action?
    The host is politically well connected. He can say whatever he likes and get away with it, especially since our political rulers agreed with his racist agenda.
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    If a country is predominanatly white then why are people worried about minorities being under represented, they are the minority after all and as such one would expect more whites in jobs surely! Fixing the books so to speak so minorities are on an squal pegging as white peopl is a complete disgrace!
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    Absolutely disgusting. I'm in Australia/NSW right now near to that location, though thankfully I haven't been caught in this myself. The situation is 100% caused by the media. They took an incident of "two lifesavers beat up by someone who MIGHT have been middle eastern" to "Middle Eastern immigrants beat up two australians in race related attacks" to "Racial tension has been building for some time", completely manufacturing some quotes, manipulating others, and using the opinions of the minority to represent the majority. The media has encited racial hatred and single handedly manufactured the situation that exists here now. Not only that, but most papers are trying to relate it to terrorism or racial tension... it's nothing to do with that. If anything it's a turf war over a BEACH.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    The trouble with Sydney is that it is ghetto-ised between the western suburbs populated by non-white migrants and the eastern suburbs populated by whites. The cultures are not diverse as they are in Melbourne which is multi-culturally diversed.

    According to my brother who lives in Australia, the news broadcast was showing the uneducated racist yobs thronging the beaches and shouting out that this was their land and for the Lebanese to get the hell out of Australia. A passing aborigine shouted "what the hell are you talking about, you lot took my land from me!"
    Impossible. Land ownership was a completely alien concept to the abos.

    --------------

    (Original post by Jacques Derrida)
    And therein is my problem. If we work on far-right logic, the only peaceful way of resolving this would be for the non-indigenous population to return to their ethnic homeland, with financial incentives that is.
    And presumably you'd extend that philosophy to all the blacks and asians in the UK; send them back away with some cash. Sounds like a BNP'esque policy.

    --------------

    (Original post by The Basilisk)
    Why does anyone have to claim ethnic ownership of land?
    Which interestingly (and ironically given the thread title) reminds me of Mick Dundee's philosophical one liner in Crocadile Dundee; men arguing land ownership is a bit like a couple of fleas on a dogs back arguing about who owns the dog. (or words to that effect)

    I'm afraid land is owned (or rather tenured) by whoever happens to be there at a given time and howsoever it was acquired. So let's stop with all this four-year old talk about white europeans stealing aboriginal land.

    --------------

    (Original post by Jianren)
    Absolutely disgusting. I'm in Australia/NSW right now near to that location, though thankfully I haven't been caught in this myself. The situation is 100% caused by the media. They took an incident of "two lifesavers beat up by someone who MIGHT have been middle eastern" to "Middle Eastern immigrants beat up two australians in race related attacks" to "Racial tension has been building for some time", completely manufacturing some quotes, manipulating others, and using the opinions of the minority to represent the majority. The media has encited racial hatred and single handedly manufactured the situation that exists here now. Not only that, but most papers are trying to relate it to terrorism or racial tension... it's nothing to do with that. If anything it's a turf war over a BEACH.
    I disagree. You state that this is wholly media caused but I would suggest that this issue must have been simmering beneath the surface for it to have been so easily ignited.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I disagree. You state that this is wholly media caused but I would suggest that this issue must have been simmering beneath the surface for it to have been so easily ignited.
    Makes sense.

    I was talking to an Australian friend about it this morning who lives within miles of the setting, who I think highlighted half of the problem. He said that the British immigrants are friendly, and if their kids grow up in the country, they happily describe themselves as Australians. He contrasted this with how the Lebonese hide away in their own communities; their kids then call themselves Lebonese too. He says there's also been a lot of building-up anxiety about crimewaves originating from these communities, so the "blame the media" argument has basis if you expect them to ignore/play down such things, as they do over here. Interestingly, the bloke who told me this is of 2nd gen Chinese origin, yet he identifies himself as Australian; no hyphonated ethnic classification or slimy foreign loyalty fits his view of himself.

    It's interesting that the Guardian (and its believers on here) seem to have filled the gaps in their knowledge of the situation with ideas that would best be described as anti-white/anti-Australian racism. The logic goes: A bad thing has happened; whites are involved, therefore whites must be the problem. (Sorry to use the word "white", but I couldn't think of anything better.)
 
 
 
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