obsession with 'best'

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amateurish

I agree. And also - you can't necessarily do your work anywhere as an arts student, particularly in the later parts of the course - a lot of university libraries just wouldn't have the stuff for me to read!

What are other uni libraries like? I know when I went to kings london they showed me the music section and I figured that I could quite easily read every book there with time to spare in three years, but I assumed they had a more central library. The UL is excellent (and they have excellent cakes), but don't all places have interlibrary loans?

MB

Reply 41

White_redrose

Ticki

I just want to add that it's not true that arts students do the same amount of work at every university. For instance, my workaholic friend doing joint history/politics at another extremely good university read the same number of books in a year as I read in a week. And she was working very hard compared to her friends. I think there's a real danger in downplaying the amount of work you're expected to do here. MB is amazingly hardworking and driven, and not all of us are quite as passionate about our subject.

Although I've only been at Cam for a term, from what I've experienced so far I have to agree - several of my friends study history at different universities and for example while I've written an essay a week for 8 weeks, they have written 3-4 essays in a term of 10-12 weeks.

Reply 42

FadeToBlackout

Agree exactly. A friend of mine at work (think he's at Warwick) did three essays and a brief presentation in 6-7 weeks. 6 books for each essay.

Compared to the 10-15 books and articles I was using (note- not reading cover to cover!) on average for each weekly esssy (the number went down as term went on!) it seems laid back and easy.

I totalled it all up from the various bibliographies I had for each esay. Totals for 1 term:

64 Books (5 of which cover to cover)
14 articles
8 primary sources
4 cups of tea from UL tearoom
4 slices of various cakes from the same
24 times working 'til 2:30am (!)
3 times up before 8 am (Torture!)
5-6 toasted sandwiches from the Seeley tea rooms
5 late return book fines
1 huge amount of fun.
0 times rowing. Even better!

Reply 43

Steveee

Yeah - but arts are meant to be a doss though.

Reply 44

Bumblebee3

Redsapphire2000

It's not about impressing an academic....if anything its impressing employers afterwards. With a Cambridge degree you can do virtually anything. For my course, Law, a Cambridge degree would make life a little easier. Especially being a woman and an ethnic minority, the opportunities that a degree from Cambridge has to offer is innumerable. Don't get me wrong I WILL achieve my goal whichever univeristy I attend, but theere's nothing wrong with wanting the best out of life. To me Cambridge is the best..

I understand that being a lawyer you are coming at it from a vocational point of view, but spare a thought for those of us who actually enjoy studying here for the sake of it.

Reply 45

Ronove

Bumblebee3

I understand that being a lawyer you are coming at it from a vocational point of view, but spare a thought for those of us who actually enjoy studying here for the sake of it.

That's certainly why I'm applying - I want to LEARN! Don't have a clue what I want as a career, though it will probably involve languages, in particular Japanese though not necessarily... I just want to learn it! So much!
Also, as for unis... with Japanese (though not with most subjects, I know) there is VERY little choice. Oxford, Cambridge, SOAS, Leeds, Sheffield, Edinburgh and one other rather rubbishy looking one I think, though maybe no more at all. Not even enough to fill a UCAS form. Hence my applying twice to Leeds and Sheffield. Not that I want to go to either of them, I've been to Open Days, and I wasn't impressed at all. I hear Edinburgh is very nice, but it's not Cambridge. I want to be taught by people who are damn good at their subject and to be somewhere where everyone else (for the most part) is as committed to learning as I am. The course at Cambridge is vastly different from most (if not all) of the others and it is the one I LOVE. I want an offer, needless to say. :bawling:

Reply 46

Gael

Yeh...no idea what I'm going to do with my degree, i'm just doing the thing i like the most :smile:

I'll probably go beg Pedro Almodóvar to be in one of his films

Reply 47

musicbloke

I couldn't give a **** what I do as a job. As long as I can read and write essays and have enough money to eat then I don't care.

MB

whatcha studying MB?

drsmeeth

whatcha studying MB?

Music, second year.

MB

Reply 50

Gael

Nice. I did music GCSE *smiles*

Reply 51

FadeToBlackout

Steveee

Yeah - but arts are meant to be a doss though.

Meant to be is right- and they are seen that way. Mostly because (IMO) us arts students procrastinate somuch during the day and only do our work at the last minute late at night before it's due in. Also, I spend a lot of time in the Seeley and UL, not the college library- it doesn't have the books i need, generally- so people don't see me working and assume I'm dossing and that History is easy! If, however, they saw me at 2:30 in the morning for the three days before an essay deadline... for 8 weeks running... i think they might change their opinion!

Reply 52

musicbloke

FadeToBlackout

sounds about right. I think the fact that we don't tend to have nine o'clock lectures contributes to it.

MB

Reply 53

Steveee

FadeToBlackout

I was kidding. Sorry.

Actually I'd find studying an essay subject incredibly hard. Not because I can't write, but because I'm REALLY lazy, and would never be motivated to go to the library. Now I can just write up my lab and do my example sheet (unless I've got a damn project GRRR), but if all my work was going down the library and reading and noting and writing I would just stay in bed and watch cartoons with a glass of milk.

Reply 54

jugular

Thought I'd add my two cents --

I do have to say that Oxbridge are two wonderful places and studying there for 3 years is a totally amazing experience. And to an 17/18 year old wanting to aim for 'the best' that's fine, it's up to them, it's their life and their choice. Being in such historic surroundings taught by such clever people and interacting with other clever people is a great experience. At the end of the day we all want the best for ourselves and we're entitled to aim for that and enjoy the fact that, privileged background or not, we got to study at the world's best university.

I disagree that people work as hard at Durham or Exeter as they do at Oxbridge, I think that's been shown to be the case by people like white_redrose pointing out that they did an essay a week compared to an essay every three weeks for their non Oxbridge friends, or ticki pointing out that she read more books in a week than a friend at another place read in a year.

I also think that many people who love their subject will want to study it at the best place in the country, or at least, the most prestigious. Studying at Oxbridge is a unique experience and the academic environment, facilities and staff help foster a love for your subject which other universities might struggle to match, if only because at the back of your mind there's a voice saying 'this is Cambridge, one of the best and most famous universities ever, and I'm reading XXX here...'

When I applied, I had a burning thirst to prove that I was the best, that I could make it, and that I was clever. That was probably the result of insecurity apart from anything else, but I was bloody glad I made it. And that's why, ultimately, I dislike people telling me to get off my Oxbridge horse.

People should read Anthony Sampson's 'Anatomy of Britain' - you'll realise that everyone, from the upper echelons of politics, to the media, to just about the whole civil service, to business leaders to prominent lawyers, were all educated at Oxbridge. There's a reason, you know.

Reply 55

Helenia

musicbloke

sounds about right. I think the fact that we don't tend to have nine o'clock lectures contributes to it.

MB

Or many lectures at all, in fact. I know that Arts students do do a LOT of work, some of them probably more than me. But I still remember a hilarious quote from first year, made by an English student in Lent term:

"Is it 5th week? Damn, there was a lecture I wanted to go to this week!" :rolleyes:

Reply 56

Adhsur

Steveee

Yeah - but arts are meant to be a doss though.

Reply 57

PinkPigeon

Helenia

I'm pretty sure this isn't standard but at my interview I met one English undergrad who had been to 2 lectures last term! And another who had been to 6! But the way the system works, if particular lectures help you then you can go and if they don't, you can spend the time in the library instead! But I can see where the reputation comes from!

Reply 58

musicbloke

PinkPigeon

sounds about right. I went to all of my lectures last term - that's 6 fugue, 1 dissertation, 1 tonal comp, 8 Diaghilev, 8 analysis. That's 24. Most music students would have gone to maybe half that.

MB

Reply 59

priya

english is a bit of an anomaly though- in the first year the lectures are apparantly very general, providing little more than crit books would. guess it just depends on the student, and how much they feel they can take in from a lecture. for other arts subjects, lectures are pretty much a necessity if you want a basic grounding in the topic