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Reply 920
Original post by ukdragon37

*cough*



You already know the answer to that. :tongue:
Original post by JordanR
You already know the answer to that. :tongue:


I'm not sure now. Upon reconsideration it's not as fast as I thought it would be and it does assume quite a bit of stuff that's not in the syllabus so it might be better if you don't get distracted by it :tongue:
Reply 922
Original post by ukdragon37
I'm not sure now. Upon reconsideration it's not as fast as I thought it would be and it does assume quite a bit of stuff that's not in the syllabus so it might be better if you don't get distracted by it :tongue:


You still already know the answer to that. :tongue:
ukdragon37
...


I've noticed the recent increase in snide comments directed at SQA and the course, and I'm going to call you out on it. I think much of it misplaced. I disagree with many of your opinions of the course content itself, but I at least recognize your intentions. However, I'm intrigued by the description of a method as 'nothing the uptight SQA would approve of'. To the best of my knowledge, any valid method is acceptable. Having occasionally applied extracurricular techniques at the time without ill effect, I'd be interested to hear if you have evidence that this is not the case.
Original post by TheUnbeliever
I've noticed the recent increase in snide comments directed at SQA and the course, and I'm going to call you out on it. I think much of it misplaced. I disagree with many of your opinions of the course content itself, but I at least recognize your intentions. However, I'm intrigued by the description of a method as 'nothing the uptight SQA would approve of'. To the best of my knowledge, any valid method is acceptable. Having occasionally applied extracurricular techniques at the time without ill effect, I'd be interested to hear if you have evidence that this is not the case.


Yeah, that's what it says in the 2011 marking instructions, but what exactly counts as a valid method? Any mathematically valid method? Or any method using knowledge from Advanced Higher?
Original post by TheUnbeliever
I've noticed the recent increase in snide comments directed at SQA and the course, and I'm going to call you out on it. I think much of it misplaced. I disagree with many of your opinions of the course content itself, but I at least recognize your intentions. However, I'm intrigued by the description of a method as 'nothing the uptight SQA would approve of'. To the best of my knowledge, any valid method is acceptable. Having occasionally applied extracurricular techniques at the time without ill effect, I'd be interested to hear if you have evidence that this is not the case.


I am aware that any mathematically valid method is admissible for full marks, however I do believe that if you use a method that is not proscribed in the marking scheme (which matches what is proscribed in the course) you lose the right to score partial marks for that question if you make a mistake. Indeed I have been warned by teachers both at Higher and Advanced Higher that using my own method is acceptable as long as you can be absolutely sure you can do it watertight because it's all-or-nothing. This is an approach I disagree with since it shows the exam is ultimately testing your ability to apply given methods. It's probably unrealistic for the system to change though, so maybe I'm just moaning.

Perhaps I do take the general SQA-bashing a bit too far, it probably stems from some personal grievances in the past where I feel they have applied marking criteria inflexibly (and in some cases my teachers agree!) in various subjects, some of which turned out to be significant enough to be grade-changing.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by ukdragon37
This is an approach I disagree with since it shows the exam is ultimately testing your ability to apply given methods. It's probably unrealistic for the system to change though, so maybe I'm just moaning.


Whilst I agree that's an unfortunate consequence, I don't immediately see any sensible way for it to be consistently remedied short of requiring every such case to be brought to a markers' meeting. Having said that, I think that 'testing your ability to apply given methods' is precisely what an exam should do, so I don't think there's much sense in taking that discussion any further. :p:

Thanks for the explanation, though.

Perhaps I do take the general SQA-bashing a bit too far, it probably stems from some personal grievances in the past where I feel they have applied marking criteria inflexibly (and in some cases my teachers agree!) in various subjects, which turned out to be significant enough to be grade-changing.


I sympathise with this.
Original post by TheUnbeliever
Whilst I agree that's an unfortunate consequence, I don't immediately see any sensible way for it to be consistently remedied short of requiring every such case to be brought to a markers' meeting. Having said that, I think that 'testing your ability to apply given methods' is precisely what an exam should do, so I don't think there's much sense in taking that discussion any further. :p:

Thanks for the explanation, though.


No problem, it's always nice for someone to challenge your views and cause you to reflect them :smile:

If I was running the Maths part of SQA I would be tempted to set up an alternate/additional course on top of AH Maths with a looser syllabus, larger more integrated problems that demand some creativity to solve and marking that is based on "this guy is making some progress towards solving the problem and I can see where this is going so he should get some credit" as opposed to "he wrote down x which deserves 1 mark according to the marking scheme". So something that is STEP-style but probably not as hard. It will of coursed be labelled "for the best students/people considering doing maths at uni only" and this should counteract the more demanding marking the course would require. I just feel that the state should do more to cater for those with a very high aptitude for maths and especially promote independent thought and creativity amongst them. Instead now you have a course that is very good at hitting the middle case but leaves people like Jordan unfulfilled and I think a bit unchallenged.

The whole thing is probably just an unrealistic rant but one can dream :tongue:

Original post by TheUnbeliever

I sympathise with this.


Thanks :smile:
Reply 928
Original post by ukdragon37
No problem, it's always nice for someone to challenge your views and cause you to reflect them :smile:

If I was running the Maths part of SQA I would be tempted to set up an alternate/additional course on top of AH Maths with a looser syllabus, larger more integrated problems that demand some creativity to solve and marking that is based on "this guy is making some progress towards solving the problem and I can see where this is going so he should get some credit" as opposed to "he wrote down x which deserves 1 mark according to the marking scheme". So something that is STEP-style but probably not as hard. It will of coursed be labelled "for the best students/people considering doing maths at uni only" and this should counteract the more demanding marking the course would require. I just feel that the state should do more to cater for those with a very high aptitude for maths and especially promote independent thought and creativity amongst them. Instead now you have a course that is very good at hitting the middle case but leaves people like Jordan unfulfilled and I think a bit unchallenged.

The whole thing is probably just an unrealistic rant but one can dream :tongue:



Thanks :smile:

Agreed, that'd be bloody brilliant. I would (and I'm sure most of the folks in this thread would too) love that. But I guess that's what uni is for! :biggrin:

Also, not quite so sure I have a "very high aptitude" for maths... though I do appreciate the complement nonetheless. :redface:
Original post by JordanR
Agreed, that'd be bloody brilliant. I would (and I'm sure most of the folks in this thread would too) love that. But I guess that's what uni is for! :biggrin:


It is more similar to what a uni education is like but if more and more of the pupil population is amenable to it at a younger age then that's only a good thing and the state should move to accommodate. I am willing to bet that this is the most prevalent in maths currently but ideally this should happen for any subject where the number of high-achievers has become significant.

Original post by JordanR
Also, not quite so sure I have a "very high aptitude" for maths... though I do appreciate the complement nonetheless. :redface:


Better than me anyway, at your age I wasn't learning what you are learning :wink:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 930
Original post by ukdragon37
It is more similar to what a uni education is like but if more and more of the pupil population is amenable to it at a younger age then that's only a good thing and the state should move to accommodate. I am willing to bet that this is the most prevalent in maths currently but ideally this should happen for any subject where the number of high-achievers has become significant.

Yep, completely agreed. I think a lot of people get bored with the pace the state education moves at and then end up underachieving because of it. Maths does seem to attract the most... "fanatical" of pupils I think. Possibly because it requires a bit less explanation on the whole than other subjects do. A lot of maths (well, the stuff I've seen so far...) is applying a reasonably simple idea/concept, but being able to abstract that into more difficult scenarios, and also being able use your intuition to deduce what's being implied mathematically by a certain thing. Or what consequences something has mathematically.

For example... the determinant in a matrix or something. I (believe) it can basically be thought of as the volume of its columns if you were to draw them out and connect them all up... and that's why a matrix that has no inverse has a determinant of 0.

Original post by ukdragon37

Better than me anyway, at your age I wasn't learning what you are learning :wink:


I still think you'd beast me on intuition and reasoning skills. :tongue: Plus... my academic track record isn't exactly wonderful!
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by JordanR

For example... the determinant in a matrix or something. I (believe) it can basically be thought of as the volume of its columns if you were to draw them out and connect them all up... and that's why a matrix that has no inverse has a determinant of 0.


Then how do you explain determinants of 4x4 (or larger) matrices? :tongue:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 932
Original post by ukdragon37
Then how do you explain determinants of 4x4 (or larger) matrices? :tongue:


OK, completely lost now. Not gonna lie. :tongue:
Original post by ukdragon37
I'm not sure now. Upon reconsideration it's not as fast as I thought it would be and it does assume quite a bit of stuff that's not in the syllabus so it might be better if you don't get distracted by it :tongue:


Guess I'll just have to learn to do the current method a bit faster then. haha
Reply 934
Original post by laughylolly
Guess I'll just have to learn to do the current method a bit faster then. haha


As long as it takes you less than 18 minutes you're on track, really. :tongue: I think they're about the fastest marks you can get on a paper.
Whilst on the subject of acceptable methods, do you HAVE to use the sigma method in binomial theorem or can you just use pascals triangle?
Original post by Mr Dangermouse
Whilst on the subject of acceptable methods, do you HAVE to use the sigma method in binomial theorem or can you just use pascals triangle?


No you have to do the binomial theorem I think. And for the questions where it just wants one coefficient you aren't allowed to expand out all the brackets, you have to do it by finding what r would be for that x term and yeah. I've seen it specifically mentioned in marking schemes that you can only do that. So..
Original post by laughylolly
No you have to do the binomial theorem I think. And for the questions where it just wants one coefficient you aren't allowed to expand out all the brackets, you have to do it by finding what r would be for that x term and yeah. I've seen it specifically mentioned in marking schemes that you can only do that. So..


See, I've spent two years thinking the binomial theorem was this:


(x + y)^4 = (x)^4 + 4(x)^3(y) + 6(x)^2(y)^2 + 4(x)(y)^3 + (y)^4
Original post by Mr Dangermouse
See, I've spent two years thinking the binomial theorem was this:


(x + y)^4 = (x)^4 + 4(x)^3(y) + 6(x)^2(y)^2 + 4(x)(y)^3 + (y)^4


Have you not been taught it?

That's is there (if you can read it, silly picture is really small).
binom01.gif
Original post by laughylolly
Have you not been taught it?

That's is there (if you can read it, silly picture is really small).
binom01.gif


Yeah not taught it properly, just picked up on that other method whilst studying.

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