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American applicant to LSE, do I have a shot? help please

Hey everyone. I'm a high school student in america and came across LSE when I was looking at colleges. It basically embodies everything I want from a college, and excels in every subject I'm interested in, so I definately want to go.

I know its near impossible to get in from within the UK, but I hear its a good deal easier for people outside the EU because they can only charge you EUers 3000 pounds a year, but they charge non-EU students about 13000/year for tuition. Does anyone know the extent to which it really is easier for people outside the EU to get in?

I am applying for the Economics degree, although I haven't sent in the UCAS form yet and am wondering whether I should do Economics w/ Economic History.

As far as test scores... in america we have things called AP tests which LSE says they use as substitutes for your A-levels. They are scored from 1 to 5, and LSE says that they treat a 5 as an A on an A-level, a 4 as a B, etc.

I have already taken 4 of them:
2004: AP European History 3 (C) (hey, I was 16, how many britains take a-levels when they're 16)

2005: AP US History 4 (B)
AP Calculus AB 4 (B)
AP English Language and Composition 5 (A)

So translating those scores, I already have ABBC and 400 points. I know those aren't the best scores, but I was 16 or 17 when I took them, and my current teachers are predicting higher scores:
-Courses I'm taking this year, and the scores my teachers predicted based on my current performance

AP Calculus BC 5 (A)
AP Statistics (A)
AP Microeconomics 5 (A)
AP Macroeconomics 5 (A)
AP Psychology 4/5 (B/A) (this teacher thought it was ridiculous to guess a score at this point in the year, and orignally refused to make a real prediction, but after some argument agreed that she couldnt see me getting less than a 4)

Now there might be some overlap that LSE could recognize- for example, there is a pretty significant overlap in the curriculum for AP Calc AB and BC. Also, do micro and macroeconomics comprise a single A-level exam? Regardless, based on predicted scores, the least I could possibly end up having would be the following:

AAAABBC (which comes to 760 points, right?)

First of all, is that right? Somebody told me that most of LSE's applicants dont have any completed A-Level exams yet, and so they make admissions decisions entirely on predicted grades- how true is that? How do my exams stack up?

Last question for now... I'm in the middle of writing my PS, and what should I be including, what should I be leaving out? For example, this is my structure so far:

-I have an introduction paragraph where i talk about my interest in economics and vaguely about what i want to do with it
-A paragraph about a specific example of a world event that i became involved with, a charity project for a school in afghanistan, then some analysis as to why it was important to me and how it ties in with my interest in economics (might be too long, eating up 1400 characters)
-in my current draft, this is a paragraph about how my current AP classes will help me/ "form a foundation" for an economics degree. Its an abomination, 780 characters long, and I think I'll change it into something more focused on my academic credentials as a whole, including a couple distinctions as well as maybe a couple brief sentences on the relevence of my current classes.
- a paragraph about my extracurricular activites. Problem might be that I list them with short descriptions, but don't go into detail with any of them. I think its important to note that I hold leadership positions in clubs from a wide array of disciplines, but at the same time it might be more interesting to go in depth on just, say, debate.
-paragraph about my experience interning at a hedge fund
-some sort of conclusion... i dont know what (please help)

This whole UCAS personal statement thing is weird, and nobody in the US is of any help. Am I on the right track with the PS?

Wow, I'm just really nervous because I really would love to go to LSE and think I have a fair shot, but am mortified of screwing something up because theres nobody I can talk to (at least without spending $2/minute on international long distance) that knows anything about applying to UK schools.

I actually have a lot more questions, but I'll leave it at this for now.

Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it.

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Reply 1

username9303

tuna USA

Does anyone know the extent to which it really is easier for people outside the EU to get in?

Well this is a running joke between everyone who applies for LSE. 'Supposedly' you have the same chance of getting an offer no matter what your location, but in essence everybody knows that as a business (which the LSE naturally is), more money makes more sense. So yes you do have more of a chance than the common Briton, even though the School will obviously deny this.

2004: AP European History 3 (C) (hey, I was 16, how many britains take a-levels when they're 16)

Well I skipped a year and my birthday is very late in the year so I did half of my A-level exams when I was 16, but thats a very rare case. The true answer to your question is: basically none

Regardless, based on predicted scores, the least I could possibly end up having would be the following:

AAAABBC (which comes to 760 points, right?)

First of all, is that right? Somebody told me that most of LSE's applicants dont have any completed A-Level exams yet, and so they make admissions decisions entirely on predicted grades- how true is that? How do my exams stack up?

You've misinterpreted the AP's are a substitute for A-levels notion. They are not direct substitutes, as getting 760 points in Britain would take about 4 years worth of studying. Think of it this way: getting AAAA in Britain is the holy grail and even that doesn't get you into LSE. So take the equivalent godlike score in the US, add a little miracle work, and you're in. Also you are completely right, the large majority of Briton's apply for places without having completed their A-level exams, but by the time they apply they have completed their midway exams, which give grades from which scores can be predicted. For example, after the penultimate year of secondary school you get your AS results (an AS equalling half a full A-level), and say you get AAAB, then your teachers will look at the influence retaking exams may have, and will predict your full A-level marks. The university can see both of these however, to prevent people from being predicted blatently unobtainable grades.

Reply 2

Earlham

I didn't go to LSE as an undergrad, but there were a couple of Americans who were on here and applying last cycle. It sounded like LSE didn't care about the APs they'd already taken and gave them conditional offers based solely upon the APs they were planning to take in the spring of their senior year. It sounds like you are taking enough, in very highly related subjects, to have at least a fairly decent shot (I'm not convinced that LSE admissions aren't at least partially a crap shoot).

And in terms of calling the UK, I always used the Sam's Club calling card that I got for graduation from high school and that was about $0.12 per minute. Look for a calling card and it won't be so bad.

In terms of me being dumb, but is the UCAS personal statement all that different from a personal statement that you would write to get in to any US college/university? Your teachers/college counselors, etc. might be of more help than you think!

Good luck!

Reply 3

tuna USA

Thanks a lot for all the replies, I really appreciate it.

You've misinterpreted the AP's are a substitute for A-levels notion. They are not direct substitutes, as getting 760 points in Britain would take about 4 years worth of studying.

I was just repeating what several LSE representatives, including the admissions contact for america and at least 2 different people on the LSE undergraduate admissions general phone line have said. I do get the feeling that its probably slightly harder to get an A on an A-level than a 5 on an AP, but I have been told several times that they just treat 5s as As, etc. Maybe thats one way they skew admissions towards american applicants :P. And to be fair, that 760 points is based off taking 9 AP courses over 3 years.

Think of it this way: getting AAAA in Britain is the holy grail and even that doesn't get you into LSE. So take the equivalent godlike score in the US, add a little miracle work, and you're in.

thanks, that seems like a pretty good explanation. Also, isnt the average points for a student admitted to LSE like 470? So basically, since rarely does anyone take more than 4 A-levels, everyone who goes there got a perfect score across 4 of them? I think I'm understanding... and am hoping that I have a proper understanding of how they treat APs, because that would give me an astronomical score.

The university can see both of these however, to prevent people from being predicted blatently unobtainable grades.

That makes a lot more sense than what I was told to do, which is just have my teachers write predictions and have my referee record them in the reference section. But hey, it helps me so I guess I won't complain.

In terms of me being dumb, but is the UCAS personal statement all that different from a personal statement that you would write to get in to any US college/university?

yeah, it kind of is. First of all, most US universities don't have a "personal statement", and instead have several essay prompts. This has a lot to do with US schools supposedly trying to be able to interpret who you are as a person, how you think, etc, whereas of what I know about UK applications, it seems like they try to make it as objective a process as possible. The prompts usually give you a big clue as to what you're going to talk about, whereas the UCAS personal statement instructions are kind of vague and broad. Further, most college admissions counselors in america will recommend "not using a thesaurus", or "writing your mind", or "share an experience". From what I understand, colleges in the UK are expecting a more serious essay, focused very much on academics in general and specifically the topic which you are applying for.

Thanks for all the help guys, if you have any recommendations for my PS, please help me out.

Reply 4

username9303

tuna USA

From what I understand, colleges in the UK are expecting a more serious essay, focused very much on academics in general and specifically the topic which you are applying for.

Totally right, you have to write your personal statement focused on the subject area which you want to study in, i.e. explain your reasons for wanting to take that subject, and if you can give a slight little cleverly written point about wanting to study at the LSE (like wanting to study "at a world renowned, international school with excellent links to the City") they know you mean them.

Reply 5

jimmydoerre3

olliemccowan

Yes 480 points is AAAA, which is seriously impressive. This gives you the idea of how hard it is to get into LSE.

when i looked at the times good university guide, it put oxford's entry tariff points at around 499. does that mean applicants usually took more than 4 A levels when they applied? :eek:

cause right now according to the ap tariff point conversion i have only 480 points and my predicated scores altogether would give me 1520 according to this conversion system..............that just doesnt seem right......

Reply 6

tuna USA

Also, do any americans who did undergraduate remember how they made the offer? Was it in terms of AP tests (ie, would they offer me "four 5s") or was it in terms of A-levels (ie, "3 As"). Also, do they ever specify which tests you need to get the scores on? For example, the calculus BC test is considered much harder than the psychology test. Would LSE ever say "you need to get a 5 (or A) on calculus, statistics, microeconomics, and macroeconomics", or would they just say that I need four 5s (or As)?

--------------

lol, jimmy, we both know that there are some real AP tests and some fake ones, and while AP psych might be borderline, US and comp gov or definately fake :P.

Seriously though, it definately doesnt inspire confidence in me that you already got rejected from LSE IR with all those APs. Do you have any idea why? Good luck with your other applications.

Reply 7

jimmydoerre3

tuna USA

lol, jimmy, we both know that there are some real AP tests and some fake ones, and while AP psych might be borderline, US and comp gov or definately fake :P.

Seriously though, it definately doesnt inspire confidence in me that you already got rejected from LSE IR with all those APs. Do you have any idea why? Good luck with your other applications.

i spent 2 lines in my ps talking about IR cause i had to cover a bunch of crap as you can see from the courses that applied to, i really wanted to do law and PPE so i tried to focus most of my ps on law and politics while i sort of tried to link the other stuff to these 2, not very successful obviously.......
btw all APs are scaled so certain amount of people will get 5s and 4s and 3s and so on so i think the 2 govs are ok since a lot of people take them, but art history on the other hand is probably trash since the people who get 5s probably get 30% of the test right due to the amount of info we have to memorize

Reply 8

username9303

jimmydoerre3

when i looked at the times good university guide, it put oxford's entry tariff points at around 499. does that mean applicants usually took more than 4 A levels when they applied? :eek:

A lot of people actually take 5 AS levels in the very top schools, and drop one of these subjects after the first year, so you finish with 4 A's and 1 A at AS say, which they usually write as AAAAa, with the small 'a' signifying the AS grade. This is equivalent to 540 points.

And i don't think there is a serious conversion system between the AP's you study and our A-levels over here, I think they just judge you on your relative merit related to other people in the US - so if your grades are very high for the average American, then it sort of matches the grades expected from Britons.

Reply 9

ba_ba1

olliemccowan

Yes 480 points is AAAA, which is seriously impressive. This gives you the idea of how hard it is to get into LSE. Obviously I am nowhere near as informed on the ins and outs of the American system, and Earlham should be able to help you more than me.

Totally right, you have to write your personal statement focused on the subject area which you want to study in, i.e. explain your reasons for wanting to take that subject, and if you can give a slight little cleverly written point about wanting to study at the LSE (like wanting to study "at a world renowned, international school with excellent links to the City") they know you mean them.

i wouldnt put the "links to the City" bit because although it is true, LSE may think you just want to go there so you can earn loads of money in the future.

Reply 10

tuna USA

Jimmy (or other americans), did you send your high school grades into LSE? I'm getting conflicting answers from different people.

Reply 11

smithsj

I'm from the US and I'm applying to LSE, so I think I have a better handle on what APs really mean than what people can gather from your [admittedly thorough] explanation of them...

I think you have a good chance, assuming you have a good personal statement. I'm not gonna lie -- your already-taken APs don't bode well. However, your predicted ones do. I would MAKE SURE that in your recommendation, the teacher mentions these predicted grades (all of them!), because these are your saving graces. Work hard in psych. and convince your teacher to give you a 5 as a predicted score, or, if you think she might give you a 4, just stick to the "4 or 5; too early to tell" answer.

As for your PS outline, it looks EXCELLENT. The internship is great -- make sure to mention that! You might also want to think about applying to more than one LSE course (but no more than two); maybe economics and then economics+somethingelse (government is a popular one), especially if you can't think of any other way to fill up your six UCAS slots.

As for grades, I've been told that they do, but I e-mailed them and offered them, and they said they didn't want them now (then again, I have SATs, SAT IIs, and IB predictions), but if they did, they'd ask me for them. However, I haven't been rejected yet and they haven't asked, so...if they want them, they'll ask later.

How were your SATs and SAT IIs? If they were good, submit them. If not, it depends on how honest you want to be, I guess (obviously don't lie, but not submitting them might not be a bad idea).

And the offer will always be in terms of whatever you're actually doing (A-levels, IB, AP, French Bac, etc.).

If you have any other questions, I probably had the same ones (I applied months ago, so I've asked all of these questions before, and more), so don't hesitate to IM me (ssmith619 on AIM) or e-mail me ([email protected]).

Reply 12

jimmydoerre3

tuna USA

Jimmy (or other americans), did you send your high school grades into LSE? I'm getting conflicting answers from different people.

i didnt send mine, i called and they didnt really want it so.........mine are pretty bad anyways :smile:

Reply 13

rboogie

I'll point out - it is 'easier' comparitely from the US than it is in the UK - but I think that's relative. Americans this year are applying to the LSE in droves for some reason - your SAT score now matters and under a 1350 will give you limited or minimal consideration (I know this given the many number of American undergraduate friends I have and their experience). The argument also applies anywhere, you have a MUCH better chance of getting into Harvard from a state like Kentucky than you do from New York - each school tries to be diverse in their makeup - but that diversity issues is compromised for some elements of merit.

I think your personal statement is critical. Americans here are finding the LSE to be a viable option in terms of an elite education beyond HYPSM such that they have started to consider LSE, Cambridge, and Ox at this level. So, as a result, personal statement seem to matter as the LSE has become increasingly competitive for Americans because of demand - I don't know if this helps - but is information you should consider when applying.

Reply 14

tuna USA

Hmm... I don't have an SAT. I got a 34 on the ACT, and a 780 on SAT II Math2c. LSE person said that the SAT wasn't necessary.

Reply 15

tuna USA

Thanks a lot for all the help guys.

Just finalized the UCAS form for Economics to LSE, and added UCL and Warwick as well since I have nothing to lose.

Well, hopefully they'll all make me offers since I'm international and come bearing an extra 10,000 pounds a year :P

Reply 16

yw37

yeah both UCL and Warwick are top for Econ in the UK, I think just right below Cambridge. the courses are even better than LSE is what I've heard, but LSE's got the rep, so you decide for yourself! ha.

Reply 17

amador1v

Hi, I've been reading this board for a while now and decided to post!

Arent you supposed to submit all your "modules" credited to your high school diploma through UCAS? In that case, don't you essentially send colleges your grades?

I'm not entirely sure if this is the board for this, but it was mentioned on this thread: Do you ask your teachers to predict your AP scores? What if you're teaching yourself a certain AP course? Right now, my recommendation "predicts" A's for all of my classes (4 AP's included), which are relatively pertinent to my hopeful course at LSE. Coming from a school that sends out only a handful of international students (5-6 out of 500+ seniors) each year (none to British Uni's last year), it would be unreasonable to ask teachers to link AP scores to my current performance. In other words, I was hoping to slack off in the class and excel in the May exams. I don't trust my teachers all that much anyway.

Reply 18

keenya2006

OK, Hi. I'm from Milwaukee in the USA and just loved England after I did a summer program at Oxford this past summer than I knew I had to study there for my undergrad. Besides, America is going to hell, what perfect excuse to leave the damn country--education. Anyway, I want to go to LSE for International Affairs. All of my extracurricular acitivites have been geared towards such and I hate being in one place, im a globe trekker. I dont want to go into the political side , i dont wish on being a professional liar :rolleyes:

, but more so for the cultural aspect of the field. My AP exams are jsut 2 scores of 3s (World History and English Language) and SAT II score of 600 on the United States History exam. The other exams I just didnt take casue i knew I wouldnt pass. Now, Im the one that should worry about acceptance here. All these people are hilarious " I only got like AAAA and a million points..do you think I'll get in" umm **** yeah u will--and if not, then there were like so many other AAAA bastards that they just couldnt fit you in. What I want to know is that even though I dont stand out on those tests much, I take 2 classes at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee...Celtic studies and Starbucks, ethnicity and globalization--thats a sweet class :smile:

. And that has awarded me 6 ACTUAL university credits. So can that be a subsititute? Ive received As in both of them. Whatever...Ill settle on London Met if I have to as long as Im in the city, but I really want LSE. So yeah..anyone in my boat...or am I just among the "elite."

Reply 19

smithsj

I'm sure you know this, but you need to get your application in NOW. They say that you have until 15 January, but it just logically doesn't make much sense that you'd be afforded an equal chance when the first round of acceptances was given out today (and I, for one, got a place in a course that admits less than 10 students a year).

As for your chances...obviously you know that a 600 doesn't bode well, but maybe your university credits do (although don't even think about transferring them to LSE). And your 3s are...obviously, not good.

To be honest, I don't think you stand any chance, and since you're set on the UK, I would cross LSE off your list and give that spot (you only have six) to a more realistic university. Sorry for the bad news...but...well, just take a look around at the qualifications that people here have.

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