Will the UK ever reverse it's authoritarian gun laws?

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silverbolt
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#41
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#41
I do not think that the UK should allow guns to be legalised. Im not against gun ownership at all and i have no issues with the American way of them. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Over here though its a different story, we are raised on guns without having one ourselves, our TV shows, movies, music, games so many of them revolve around guns.
if the UK allowed people to own guns it would be a nightmare. It would become the next must have thing instantly. Americans are raised with guns for the most part people are safe with them. Over here it would be like a thirsty man being given a drink or a starving man being given a pepperoni pizza. They would shoot first and think about it later,
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Selkarn
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#42
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#42
(Original post by fudgesundae)
What an earth do you want a gun for? To protect yourself? No you don't need it for that because crime isn't out of control here. To kill wild bears? No because we don't have them here. It seems you just want to be able to buy guns just for the sake of it. And comparing a law not allowing guns to the Nazis is just over the top. I'm sure there are many laws the Nazi's had that are currently used in Western democracies.
Nope, I don't need a gun myself. Why do you ask?

I defend liberalism and freedom

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Selkarn
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#43
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#43
(Original post by silverbolt)
I do not think that the UK should allow guns to be legalised. Im not against gun ownership at all and i have no issues with the American way of them. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Over here though its a different story, we are raised on guns without having one ourselves, our TV shows, movies, music, games so many of them revolve around guns.
if the UK allowed people to own guns it would be a nightmare. It would become the next must have thing instantly. Americans are raised with guns for the most part people are safe with them. Over here it would be like a thirsty man being given a drink or a starving man being given a pepperoni pizza. They would shoot first and think about it later,
So you defend an authoritarian practice because you feel like "it would be a nightmare" even though we already have guns over here.
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cambio wechsel
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
Gun crime across Europe, where firearms are, broadly speaking, illegal or highly controlled, is substantially lower than it is in the United States where firearms are generally freely available.

This isn't up for debate, nor should it be. I believe that most firearms should be banned.
A commonly made debating point for the NRA - the country with the highest rates of gun ownership in the world is Switzerland, where defence policy is centred on the idea of a standing militia such that the law requires every man between 20 and 50 to own and maintain a firearm.

This is only an aside, mind, one of those "did you know...?" observations.
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The Epicurean
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#45
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#45
(Original post by kingsholmmad)
That seems to be implying that most of the population (presumably not convicted criminals, the mentally unstable or children) should have an absolute right of access to offensive weapons on the off chance of a change in the political landscape. Firstly, as long as we maintain a political system, as now, that ensures a relatively strong opposition, the dictatorship you so greatly fear cannot happen. Secondly, you cannot legalise guns and tell people that they must only use them for political purposes. If you legalise guns, you must accept all the consequences, you can't choose to ignore a rise in violent deaths simply because people aren't using guns the way you want them to.
No, i still believe there do no to be checks to stop those whom are mentally unstable. Switzerland is a good example of how firearms should be controlled. They have low gun crime yet have a high proportion of gun ownership. Dictatorship emered quite easily during the early 20th century when the political system were what i would regard is quite good in Europe. If the recession were a lot worse than it was we could of seen a larger rise in fringe political parties such as BNP.

Canada also has a large population of gun owners. They are mostly law obeyers and are normal citizens whom don't go around shooting people. Revolutions don't occur every saturday do they? Revolutions occur when people are pushed to the point of reaction. The common gun user will be reactive and not proactive. Therefore i do believe that the large majority of people will only use guns for political purposes.
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silverbolt
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Selkarn)
So you defend an authoritarian practice because you feel like "it would be a nightmare" even though we already have guns over here.
And where do you get Authoritarian from? People with guns can be dangerous. People who suddenly get the excitement of owning a gun more so.
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fudgesundae
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Selkarn)
Nope, I don't need a gun myself. Why do you ask?

I defend liberalism and freedom

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exactly, you just want to have guns for the sake of being able to have them.
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kingsholmmad
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#48
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#48
(Original post by zedbrar)
No, i still believe there do no to be checks to stop those whom are mentally unstable.
That, I fear, is part of the problem. No government these days is going to legalise gun ownership without seeing it as a form revenue generation. Which means licensing. Which means it would be the government who carried out (and kept records of) individual's mental stability. Since you want guns to be a political tool, it follows that the government would, at the same time, test (and keep records of) your political stability / status. By what measure is that reducing governmental power and authoritarianism?

Switzerland is a good example of how firearms should be controlled. They have low gun crime yet have a high proportion of gun ownership. Dictatorship emered quite easily during the early 20th century when the political system were what i would regard is quite good in Europe. If the recession were a lot worse than it was we could of seen a larger rise in fringe political parties such as BNP.
Well, yes. If the political situation were different, circumstances would be different. But it isn't. And they aren't.

Canada also has a large population of gun owners. They are mostly law obeyers and are normal citizens whom don't go around shooting people. Revolutions don't occur every saturday do they? Revolutions occur when people are pushed to the point of reaction. The common gun user will be reactive and not proactive. Therefore i do believe that the large majority of people will only use guns for political purposes.
You just don't know people. The majority of gun usage probably would be reactive but that still leaves a minority (possibly quite sizeable) usage that would be offensive not defensive. In addition to that, the reactive users would be, by definition, violently reactive. If you're going to have a gun, you're going to use it, otherwise why have it? It's pointless having it purely to be a threat because, if you're not going to use it, it's no threat.

As far as the "political usage" angle goes, that just doesn't wash. I absolutely, unreservedly guarantee that most blokes who would buy your newly-legalised guns would be doing so with the express aim of committing a crime or of showing it off to their mates. Big flash guns would become designer accessories in the way that big flash cars, mobiles, gadgets etc have become. The truth is there are a lot less blokes who sit around muttering, "Come the glorious day, brother" like Citizen Smith than there are blokes who sit around boasting, "Look at the size of me weapon, I'm well 'ard".
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Selkarn
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#49
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#49
(Original post by silverbolt)
And where do you get Authoritarian from? People with guns can be dangerous. People who suddenly get the excitement of owning a gun more so.
Duh, of course it's authoritarian - it's a government law regulating how people can live their lives. Being a liberal person, I believe people should be given more freedom when it comes to firearms.
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Yuck
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Selkarn)
There are literally hundreds of unique reasons why someone, from all walks of life, may want to own a gun. A quick google search gave me this, 76 reasons to own a handgun:

*snip*
That list was an incredibly weak and for the most part illogical argument for gun ownership, sorry. Talk about grasping at straws.
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Selkarn
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Yuck)
That list was an incredibly weak and for the most part illogical argument for gun ownership, sorry. Talk about grasping at straws.
Maybe to you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to force your viewpoint on others who may have very good reasons for wanting one, you authoritarian
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silverbolt
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Selkarn)
Duh, of course it's authoritarian - it's a government law regulating how people can live their lives. Being a liberal person, I believe people should be given more freedom when it comes to firearms.
Well im liberal as well, so i believe that as a rapist i should be able to attack whoever i like and get away with it.
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Peterpop
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#53
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personally ithink they should let people have guns if they want but they need to have a proven form from the doctors to say that they have no mental problems and need to be over the age of 21
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Selkarn
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#54
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#54
(Original post by silverbolt)
i believe that as a rapist i should be able to attack whoever i like and get away with it.
Really? Then your opinion is invalid, imo
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Selkarn
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Peterpop)
personally ithink they should let people have guns if they want but they need to have a proven form from the doctors to say that they have no mental problems and need to be over the age of 21
Sounds like a healthy compromise to me
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Yuck
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Selkarn)
Maybe to you, but that doesn't mean you have the right to force your viewpoint on others who may have very good reasons for wanting one, you authoritarian
Well there lies the problem. None of those reasons were very good. They ranged from incredibly situational to downright bizarre to self-perpetuating, unless Hurricane Katrina is a common occurrence in the UK.
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silverbolt
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#57
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(Original post by Selkarn)
Really? Then your opinion is invalid, imo
thats all right i value your inane babble as less that valid so i guess it balances out.

My apologies i forgot to add the sarcasm smile/note in my last post.
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d4nny
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#58
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#58
If you want to use a gun, join the army. If not, don't, and keep the streets of Britiain safe.

Here's what you can expect to fire:
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Have fun!

Warning: Joining the army may put you at risk of being shot.
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Leon Trotsky
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#59
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#59
I'm not sure I'd want the UK to change it's gun laws, considering we have one of the lowest rates of homicide with a firearm on the planet.
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Planar
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#60
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#60
No one seems to have heard the old saying that when you outlaw something, only outlaws have it - eg burglars with guns. The idea behind weakening gun control is that people will be better able to defend themselves. I'm not convinced at all, but a minor weakening wouldn't do much harm. At very least, we could speed up the time it takes to get guns - a friend of mine got his shotgun(for sporting purposes) after 8 months waiting, which is just absurd.
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