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Should 'Holocaust Revisionists' be Jailed?

Socrates

I believe God exists, and I believe that people who deny it are liars. However, I do not advocate that debating it should be banned. As a lawyer (or potential lawyer) you are displaying astonishing ignorance. Just because something has been "proven" doesn't mean it can't be challenged. History evolves and people find out new things they didn't know previously. It used to be accepted that the earth is flat - and it was proven (or so said the Catholic Church). We now know that was not true - but how would we have known if debate had been stifled?

Da irony...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods46.html

Reply 81

Socrates

17

ArthurOliver

Da irony...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods46.html

It was the first example that came to my head.

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JonathanH

In my opinion it causes great harm in the form of mental anguish to those who were victims of the nazis and to their families.

In my opinion, you are causing me harm in the form of mental anguish by existing on this forum. That does not warrant you being banned, nor do I advocate it.

Reply 82

ArthurOliver

12

Socrates

It was the first example that came to my head.

Almost everybody believes it. The power of propaganda and orthodoxy.

Reply 83

Socrates

17

ArthurOliver

Almost everybody believes it. The power of propaganda and orthodoxy.

Why was Gallileo imprisoned then? Doesn't say anything about that in the piece.

Reply 84

ArthurOliver

12

Socrates

Why was Gallileo imprisoned then? Doesn't say anything about that in the piece.

Stealing apples from Newton.

Reply 85

Hoblox

OP

JonathanH

Who says it doesn't cause harm?
In my opinion it causes great harm in the form of mental anguish to those who were victims of the nazis and to their families.

Anyway, I still don't accept the 'the debate must be kept open so it can be proven', by keeping the debate open you implicitly accept that it cannot be proven - why debate something that has been proven? - because if it were then there wouldn't be debate. Thus you merely lend credence to the viewpoint of the deniers by saying that they are engaging in a legitimate debate on an issue that has not been settled.

In the end, you seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom to lie in the course of spreading hatred. I disagree.

How could the families of the victims be emotionally traumatised just because of what some lone ranger revisionist has to say?! If you have read the revisionists they make some good points, such as the use of census data. Now if i was a Jew who had relatives in concentration camps, i would welcome a new investigation into them. To know that actually your relatives didnt suffer in the ways that is currently accepted would be wonderful news dont you think?

JonathanH

Can we just ****ing bomb Iran and get it over...

You really are unbelievable. So now you are advocating genocide yourself?! I find it hilarious that when the Iranian president said God would distroy Israel that there was huge uproar, yet comments like this go unnoticed. You really are the biggest hypocrite.

Reply 86

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

JonathanH, do you think the fact you are Jewish has [ianything to do with your standpoint on this issue.

I don't think anyone here is going to try and claim that the holocaust didn't happen but this falls into the category of....

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/t153202.html

What i was saying there. ^^^. To believe something is one thing, but to not even be able to debate it because someone tells you it's the truth?

I think you're putting far too much faith in government.

Reply 87

Hoblox

OP

He's at it again.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4527142.stm#

Reply 88

Socrates

17

Well done Dan for pointing that out.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3185619&postcount=35exposing JonathanH's hypocrisy in all its glory.

Enjoy.

Reply 89

The Dragon

This is an unbelievable thing to suggest! How can you jail someone for thinking that something was exaggerated?

I could go about saying the earth is flat - sure, I'd get laughed at but would I be arrested and jailed for it? I think not. Let them believe what they wish, it's not like they're saying we should have another one just to prove it didn't happen or anything so their beliefs are hurting no one (except maybe themselves).

Reply 90

legbreakgoogly

Its a freedom of speech issue. Jews think they should be above the law. I am telling you all to your face, no one will be cowered by these clamps on free speech, which you "champion" when it suits your purpose!

Mr Irving should, nay must, be allowed to voice his opinion freely.

All they do is cry!

Reply 91

Hoblox

OP

Socrates

Well done Dan for pointing that out.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3185619&postcount=35exposing JonathanH's hypocrisy in all its glory.

Enjoy.

That is brilliant :biggrin:

Reply 92

legbreakgoogly

JonH is a right clown. He thinks his people should be above the law. We are happy to wait. :biggrin:

Reply 93

Howard

5

Bismarck

The guy is so great, that not a single one of his books made it into the LSE library, which is arguably the best social science library in the UK. :rolleyes:

I wonder why? Nothing at all to do with politics I'm sure. :rolleyes:

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JonathanH

In the end, you seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom to lie in the course of spreading hatred. I disagree.

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Can we just ****ing bomb Iran and get it over...

Unf***inbelievable.

Let's imprison people who might cause "mental anguish" to the families of holocaust victims and then ****ing bomb Iran. :rolleyes:

Did you ever consider trying joined-up-thinking?

Reply 94

Stranksy

Socrates

I believe God exists, and I believe that people who deny it are liars. However, I do not advocate that debating it should be banned. As a lawyer (or potential lawyer) you are displaying astonishing ignorance. Just because something has been "proven" doesn't mean it can't be challenged.

Exactly! Just because History "says so", doesnt mean people aren't allowd to question it. Come on now, that would be "thought police" style. Just because someone questions a horrible event in History, doesnt mean they dont understand death, loss, grief etc...It doesn't mean they are trying to be abusive towards the feelings of those who suffered, it simply means they want the truth. And truth is paramount.

If we hadnt questioned the notion that the Earth is flat, centre of the universe, imagine what illusion we'd be living in today....

One thing we should ALL be aware of, is that at this point in time, we aren't exempt from the mistakes of the past. History can teach us alot, but it can also be used to hide truths. Lie's and deception are great tools for mass human control, bear that in mind when you watch the mainstream media...

Reply 95

*River

15

The laws agains Holocaust denial were made right after WWII; it could be argued that over sixty years after said event they no longer have a place in a society that that promotes free speech.

Reply 96

Howard

5

heninacoop

The laws agains Holocaust denial were made right after WWII;

I don't think so. There are seven European countries with such laws which I think were introduced much later on. (Not sure though)

Reply 97

Stranksy

I think its ridiculous people arent allowd to challenge the truth. Just because it "upsets" some people....that is blatently an excuse to get people NOT to look into it, which suggests theres something being hidden, which infact there was (they lied about the number of Jews killed, amoungst other things)

Reply 98

Howard

5

Stranksy

I think its ridiculous people arent allowd to challenge the truth. Just because it "upsets" some people....that is blatently an excuse to get people NOT to look into it, which suggests theres something being hidden, which infact there was (they lied about the number of Jews killed, amoungst other things)

That's twice you've said that. Who's "they" and can you prove "they" lied?

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Stranksy

I think its ridiculous people arent allowd to challenge the truth. Just because it "upsets" some people....that is blatently an excuse to get people NOT to look into it, which suggests theres something being hidden, which infact there was (they lied about the number of Jews killed, amoungst other things)

Only the mentally ill challenge the truth. What's the point?

Reply 99

an Siarach

15

Socrates

I took JonathanH as a libertarian. I suppose I was wrong.

Evidently his opinion is infallible and unquestionable and we should all abide by it or be jailed. Liberty requires freedom of speech for all, bigots and idiots included, and anti-semite holocaust denying scum should be just as free to hold their beliefs as the barely sane extremist socialist fools we have at SOAS or anyone of a 'moderate' political persuasion.

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JonathanH

Who says it doesn't cause harm?
In my opinion it causes great harm in the form of mental anguish to those who were victims of the nazis and to their families.

Mental anguish is ********. What if your opinion causes the holocaust revisionists mental anguish - why should you be treated as inherently more worth of protection than them?

Anyway, I still don't accept the 'the debate must be kept open so it can be proven', by keeping the debate open you implicitly accept that it cannot be proven - why debate something that has been proven? - because if it were then there wouldn't be debate. Thus you merely lend credence to the viewpoint of the deniers by saying that they are engaging in a legitimate debate on an issue that has not been settled.

Doubtless you would have argued in favour of the Church prosecuting Gallileo and numerous other heretics as they were doing so in favour of what was the truth of that time. Now dont be a fool and take that comparison of the validity of compared arguments but of the rule regarding 'truth' and ones freedom to propagate a challenge to it.

In the end, you seem to think that freedom of speech means freedom to lie in the course of spreading hatred. I disagree.

What gives you the right to decide what is a lie?

Should 'Holocaust Revisionists' be Jailed?

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