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Offer: Mathematics with Management & Finance
Just found out that I've got an unconditional offer for Mathematics with Management & Finance at KCL. (I have my grades already though). I must admit that I put this course down as a "fill the void", but now I'm starting to feel that it may be huge deal more interesting that I thought earlier.
Call me statuswhore, but hey, if you can't fight the system - join it! I'm wondering what status this course has on the market? Is it "this guy didn't make it into Economics" or "this guy..."?
Call me statuswhore, but hey, if you can't fight the system - join it! I'm wondering what status this course has on the market? Is it "this guy didn't make it into Economics" or "this guy..."?
my friend got an ABC offer for the same course last year and ditched it for UCL Maths & Econ / Warwick Maths & Econ simply because those offers were both AAA.
she seemed to think that getting into an uni with AAA is a lot more impressive than getting into one with ABC at A-level.
in terms of Econ I think both Warwick and UCL are on top right below Cambridge, however I don't think King's is anywhere near there.
I think the Mathematics department is pretty good though, although my friend, who visited both Warwick and UCL concluded that the Maths departments there were much better.
if you're looking for Econ, don't go to King's. if you're looking for Maths, I don't know.
I don't even know what I'm saying...
what are your other choices anyway?
she seemed to think that getting into an uni with AAA is a lot more impressive than getting into one with ABC at A-level.
in terms of Econ I think both Warwick and UCL are on top right below Cambridge, however I don't think King's is anywhere near there.
I think the Mathematics department is pretty good though, although my friend, who visited both Warwick and UCL concluded that the Maths departments there were much better.
if you're looking for Econ, don't go to King's. if you're looking for Maths, I don't know.
I don't even know what I'm saying...
what are your other choices anyway?
The KCL Mathematics Dept is actually very good. And I'm not just saying that because I study there.
I was at first a tad apprehensive about studying at this dept but when you attend the lectures and speak to the professors about mathematics and their research interests etc, you realise that this dept really has some clout. The teaching standard is immensely high indeed.
True, we don't do an economics degree (joint or single) but the mathematics dept here is very good indeed. But one word of warning if you wish to take up the offer: be prepared to work! We usually have 3 tests per week (5 in total througout the term) with the best 4 going towards 20% of the final yr 1 mark in each course module. They really don't go easy on the workload simply because you're a fresher. This is no easy ride. However, you certainly know your mathematics at the end of the 3 yrs!
I was at first a tad apprehensive about studying at this dept but when you attend the lectures and speak to the professors about mathematics and their research interests etc, you realise that this dept really has some clout. The teaching standard is immensely high indeed.
True, we don't do an economics degree (joint or single) but the mathematics dept here is very good indeed. But one word of warning if you wish to take up the offer: be prepared to work! We usually have 3 tests per week (5 in total througout the term) with the best 4 going towards 20% of the final yr 1 mark in each course module. They really don't go easy on the workload simply because you're a fresher. This is no easy ride. However, you certainly know your mathematics at the end of the 3 yrs!
I beg to differ with Angad. King's is not particularly renowned for its Mathematics department, and if you enjoy being patronised for 2 semesters (or more), then King's is the place to be. The very fact that the professors and lecturers continue to remind you that their department is fantastic is only testament to the fact they feel rather insecure about its status. Indeed, the research is good - offered 5 in both applied and pure research - but their research is very specific; they seem to concentrate on neural networks and statistical mechanics.
As for the course itself: many top universities give an Analysis course (in some cases a further Analysis course in the 2nd semester). However, King's gives a very patronising and watered down version in the first year - Numbers and Functions. Calculus I is slight bits of P4, P5 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks, whereas Linear Methods is one chapter of P4 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks! The only course that really tests you is Abstract Algebra. Even then, the proofs are rather standard, and it isn't particularly challenging if you follow the work.
I fail to see how King's continues to call itself a 'top mathematics institute'. IMO, the course reflects the department, and the course - crudely put - is crap.
As for the course itself: many top universities give an Analysis course (in some cases a further Analysis course in the 2nd semester). However, King's gives a very patronising and watered down version in the first year - Numbers and Functions. Calculus I is slight bits of P4, P5 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks, whereas Linear Methods is one chapter of P4 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks! The only course that really tests you is Abstract Algebra. Even then, the proofs are rather standard, and it isn't particularly challenging if you follow the work.
I fail to see how King's continues to call itself a 'top mathematics institute'. IMO, the course reflects the department, and the course - crudely put - is crap.
HTale
I beg to differ with Angad. King's is not particularly renowned for its Mathematics department, and if you enjoy being patronised for 2 semesters (or more), then King's is the place to be. The very fact that the professors and lecturers continue to remind you that their department is fantastic is only testament to the fact they feel rather insecure about its status. Indeed, the research is good - offered 5 in both applied and pure research - but their research is very specific; they seem to concentrate on neural networks and statistical mechanics.
As for the course itself: many top universities give an Analysis course (in some cases a further Analysis course in the 2nd semester). However, King's gives a very patronising and watered down version in the first year - Numbers and Functions. Calculus I is slight bits of P4, P5 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks, whereas Linear Methods is one chapter of P4 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks! The only course that really tests you is Abstract Algebra. Even then, the proofs are rather standard, and it isn't particularly challenging if you follow the work.
I fail to see how King's continues to call itself a 'top mathematics institute'. IMO, the course reflects the department, and the course - crudely put - is crap.
As for the course itself: many top universities give an Analysis course (in some cases a further Analysis course in the 2nd semester). However, King's gives a very patronising and watered down version in the first year - Numbers and Functions. Calculus I is slight bits of P4, P5 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks, whereas Linear Methods is one chapter of P4 and P6 stretched across 12 weeks! The only course that really tests you is Abstract Algebra. Even then, the proofs are rather standard, and it isn't particularly challenging if you follow the work.
I fail to see how King's continues to call itself a 'top mathematics institute'. IMO, the course reflects the department, and the course - crudely put - is crap.
He's dancing rings around you, Angad 
No I must disagree with you Hicham. Let's be frank shall we and leave the verbosity behind...
You applied to King's on your own accord because you apparently did not want to undertake a medicine degree. Prestige is an issue which is incredibly important to you and I feel that it is unfounded. Are you leaving King's simple because of this apparent presitige issue or for other concerns like facilities and quality of teaching or course content? The fundamental question remains unanswered: "At the end of 3 yrs, what do you think will be the outcome of all this debating?"
That pretentious nonsense about Analysis v Numbers and Functions. We do Analysis in Year 2 and if you were to compare the syllabus of this Analysis course to that of any other higher ranked university (hmmm lets see, how about Imperial..), it would be almost identical. Just because they wish to teach us elementary analysis (or perhaps Foundations of Analysis in Yr 1 at Imperial) in the first semester does not mean that they will never teach us it and we shall be "mathematically deprived" so to speak. I don't see what you find so irratating about that set-up. Secondly, as far as the Calculus 1 issue goes, the simple answer to that is that some of us did not do A Level Further Mathematics so it goes without saying that we need to be taught the things we did not encounter in A Level single mathematics. Just because you did do further maths does not mean that the Department is somewhat inferior just because it teaches that stuff again. The same goes for Linear Methods which, agreed, is all further mathematics. We still need to know it Hicham!
Let's be thorough and compare the syllabi of King's and Imperial in the first year. The main difference is that they get taught Analysis 1 and we get taught it in Yr 2. Mathematical Methods 1 and 2 (according to the course information PDF on the website) is the same as Calculus 1 and 2 conceptually. And they get taught Geometry along with Linear Algebra (which incidentally has a lot of topics in Numbers and Functions haha) in one single module while Geometry is taught separately here. None of this is false Hicham, i urge you to look at the website!
Not for one moment do I doubt your mathematical competence Hicham. I just think that you are subtly trying to tell people that "I'm too good for King's Mathematics." The majority of the people find the work thus far pretty easy. You are not the only one. I advise you not to be so presumptious and believe the work will stay this elementary for the duration of the 3 yrs or that we're all idiots for staying here and not leaving King's asap.
If you compare King's to Warwick, Imperial, UCL or Cambridge for example then it is not a top mathematical institution. But with Mathematics at university, we still learn the same topics, even if it might be slightly later in the couse, and the lecturers put in a lot of time to make sure you understand the material well. It is up to you to take advantage of the opportunities avaliable to you. If you want to challenge yourself, we have a very well stocked mathematics section at the beautiful Maughan library and you can get a book and teach yourself a more advanced subject if you so desire. The frequency of assessment is good and keeps you up to date with the work. Yes, the general calibre of student is not as high as at Cambridge or the aforementioned universities but there are some very good students here nonetheless with stellar grades throughout school and work extremely hard who are (believe it or not) enjoying learning mathematics here.
Admittedly, it is a mid tier mathematics dept but where you cannot simply put off working and I stress again, the level of teaching is high. My friend is in his 2nd year at Cambridge studying Mathematics and he was shocked when I told him the amount of work we have at present. Yes, the work itself is not difficult (he found it quite easy in Yr 1 too) but he didn't get tested or have as much homework as we have to do weekly.
I trust that you will reply to this Hicham trying desparately to undermine everything I've just said. But rest assured that all that I have said is the truth and unlike you, I am very satisfied with studying here and will make the most of the opportunities on offer.
Oh yeah and as for you Genghis, don't be silly, Hicham can't dance!
You applied to King's on your own accord because you apparently did not want to undertake a medicine degree. Prestige is an issue which is incredibly important to you and I feel that it is unfounded. Are you leaving King's simple because of this apparent presitige issue or for other concerns like facilities and quality of teaching or course content? The fundamental question remains unanswered: "At the end of 3 yrs, what do you think will be the outcome of all this debating?"
That pretentious nonsense about Analysis v Numbers and Functions. We do Analysis in Year 2 and if you were to compare the syllabus of this Analysis course to that of any other higher ranked university (hmmm lets see, how about Imperial..), it would be almost identical. Just because they wish to teach us elementary analysis (or perhaps Foundations of Analysis in Yr 1 at Imperial) in the first semester does not mean that they will never teach us it and we shall be "mathematically deprived" so to speak. I don't see what you find so irratating about that set-up. Secondly, as far as the Calculus 1 issue goes, the simple answer to that is that some of us did not do A Level Further Mathematics so it goes without saying that we need to be taught the things we did not encounter in A Level single mathematics. Just because you did do further maths does not mean that the Department is somewhat inferior just because it teaches that stuff again. The same goes for Linear Methods which, agreed, is all further mathematics. We still need to know it Hicham!
Let's be thorough and compare the syllabi of King's and Imperial in the first year. The main difference is that they get taught Analysis 1 and we get taught it in Yr 2. Mathematical Methods 1 and 2 (according to the course information PDF on the website) is the same as Calculus 1 and 2 conceptually. And they get taught Geometry along with Linear Algebra (which incidentally has a lot of topics in Numbers and Functions haha) in one single module while Geometry is taught separately here. None of this is false Hicham, i urge you to look at the website!
Not for one moment do I doubt your mathematical competence Hicham. I just think that you are subtly trying to tell people that "I'm too good for King's Mathematics." The majority of the people find the work thus far pretty easy. You are not the only one. I advise you not to be so presumptious and believe the work will stay this elementary for the duration of the 3 yrs or that we're all idiots for staying here and not leaving King's asap.
If you compare King's to Warwick, Imperial, UCL or Cambridge for example then it is not a top mathematical institution. But with Mathematics at university, we still learn the same topics, even if it might be slightly later in the couse, and the lecturers put in a lot of time to make sure you understand the material well. It is up to you to take advantage of the opportunities avaliable to you. If you want to challenge yourself, we have a very well stocked mathematics section at the beautiful Maughan library and you can get a book and teach yourself a more advanced subject if you so desire. The frequency of assessment is good and keeps you up to date with the work. Yes, the general calibre of student is not as high as at Cambridge or the aforementioned universities but there are some very good students here nonetheless with stellar grades throughout school and work extremely hard who are (believe it or not) enjoying learning mathematics here.
Admittedly, it is a mid tier mathematics dept but where you cannot simply put off working and I stress again, the level of teaching is high. My friend is in his 2nd year at Cambridge studying Mathematics and he was shocked when I told him the amount of work we have at present. Yes, the work itself is not difficult (he found it quite easy in Yr 1 too) but he didn't get tested or have as much homework as we have to do weekly.
I trust that you will reply to this Hicham trying desparately to undermine everything I've just said. But rest assured that all that I have said is the truth and unlike you, I am very satisfied with studying here and will make the most of the opportunities on offer.
Oh yeah and as for you Genghis, don't be silly, Hicham can't dance!
Angad, my dear friend, we're not just arguing about the 1st year. We are giving a holisitic analysis of both courses in mention. Now, given that in mind, we quite clearly know that the 1st year has to be (near enough) the same to provide a solid foundation for progressive modules. However, I would count Analysis (not it's watered down version) as a foundation. In this sense, IC (and the other institutions mentioned) have it correct. I will even quote to you a second year student: "Yeah, it's a bit stupid that we don't do Analysis". Remind me to point him out Angad when we return for the 2nd semester.
Secondly, I find it patronising that further maths modules such as Second Order ODE's are still being taught in the c. 11th week of the first semester. Now, what sets apart KCL from the said institutions is the fact that the further maths course is done in approximatley 2 lectures in the first week. Now, believe it or not, IC and UCL don't actually ask for Further Maths, and there are many students who have not had the good fortune to be taught the syllabus. What is the difference between KCL students and IC or UCL students?
Now, Angad, the vanguard of KCL Mathematics, please, compare for me the 2nd year of IC against KCL. Actually, I shall save you the mispleasure of realising just how rubbish the course is, and actually list it here:
KCL
Analysis I
Geometry of surfaces
Groups & symmetries
Intermediate dynamics
Linear algebra
PDEs & complex variable
Options
Discrete mathematics
Elementary number theory
Logic
Numerical methods
Probability and statistics II
IC
Analysis II
Applied mathematics
Complex analysis I
Differential equations
Dynamics I
Graphs, algorithms and optimisation
Groups, rings and numbers
Numerical analysis I
One-dimensional fluid dynamics
Practical numerical algorithms
Probability and statistics II
Rings and fields
Statistical modelling I
Statistical theory I
Vector field theory
Hmm, what would a mathematician pick? Furthermore, IC list all of those as options. King's don't appear to trust its students (or view them as mathematically mature enough) to pick their own interests. That is a great shame. I won't go into the 3rd year, since IC's choices in the 3rd year would make this post so long, it'd take up a page in itself!
Angad, if you want this to become a personal debate, we shall make it one. Answer me, how many lectures have you skipped? Probably 50-70% of each week. You didn't come in at all in the last week. I think I even remember you complaining about the state of the course, when you asked me for help in your Algebra homework - whilst missing the first half of the Algebra lecture. What was that about making the most of the opportunities on offer? I didn't quite hear it, repeat it in the next post. Oh, and everyone, this is the very same person who was contemplating a move to LSE to do an entirely different course. Please, Angad, next time, do not insult me about chasing prestige - I especially take offense when it comes from pretentious inhabitants of Brentwood.
As for facilities. Now, KCL is undergoing a major new redevlopment programme - possibly costing in the region of £6 million. This is scheduled to end in 2008 (I think, I'm unsure of the details). In the meantime, anyone trying to study at King's will have to brave through some very horrific facilities. The words of Dr. Hamish Rae echo loudly in my ears now: "Admittedly, you will be very displeased with some things here". It also states that there will be NO disruption to lectures. Unfortunatley, on more than one occassion, the lecture had to shout above the drilling overhead.
One more thing, why is it Angad, that you feel you must defend KCL Mathematics? You see, if I were to do the same with UCL, IC or Warwick (not that I'd be stupid enough to do so), then I'd be made to look a fool - the standard of course and prestige speaks for itself. Your insecurity shines through Mr. Chawla.
Ah, I've forgotten. Angad has not only been associated with a move to LSE but also - shock, horror - UCL and IC. In fact, do I not remember you telling me on MSN Messenger "I may see you at Imperial"?
As for dancing, who cares? I'm not the one who goes out trying, only to be made a freak on the dancefloor...
EDIT: you said verbosity...PAH! You could distill everything you said into one sentence: "I'm a King's Maths department arse licker"
Secondly, I find it patronising that further maths modules such as Second Order ODE's are still being taught in the c. 11th week of the first semester. Now, what sets apart KCL from the said institutions is the fact that the further maths course is done in approximatley 2 lectures in the first week. Now, believe it or not, IC and UCL don't actually ask for Further Maths, and there are many students who have not had the good fortune to be taught the syllabus. What is the difference between KCL students and IC or UCL students?
Now, Angad, the vanguard of KCL Mathematics, please, compare for me the 2nd year of IC against KCL. Actually, I shall save you the mispleasure of realising just how rubbish the course is, and actually list it here:
KCL
Analysis I
Geometry of surfaces
Groups & symmetries
Intermediate dynamics
Linear algebra
PDEs & complex variable
Options
Discrete mathematics
Elementary number theory
Logic
Numerical methods
Probability and statistics II
IC
Analysis II
Applied mathematics
Complex analysis I
Differential equations
Dynamics I
Graphs, algorithms and optimisation
Groups, rings and numbers
Numerical analysis I
One-dimensional fluid dynamics
Practical numerical algorithms
Probability and statistics II
Rings and fields
Statistical modelling I
Statistical theory I
Vector field theory
Hmm, what would a mathematician pick? Furthermore, IC list all of those as options. King's don't appear to trust its students (or view them as mathematically mature enough) to pick their own interests. That is a great shame. I won't go into the 3rd year, since IC's choices in the 3rd year would make this post so long, it'd take up a page in itself!
Angad, if you want this to become a personal debate, we shall make it one. Answer me, how many lectures have you skipped? Probably 50-70% of each week. You didn't come in at all in the last week. I think I even remember you complaining about the state of the course, when you asked me for help in your Algebra homework - whilst missing the first half of the Algebra lecture. What was that about making the most of the opportunities on offer? I didn't quite hear it, repeat it in the next post. Oh, and everyone, this is the very same person who was contemplating a move to LSE to do an entirely different course. Please, Angad, next time, do not insult me about chasing prestige - I especially take offense when it comes from pretentious inhabitants of Brentwood.
As for facilities. Now, KCL is undergoing a major new redevlopment programme - possibly costing in the region of £6 million. This is scheduled to end in 2008 (I think, I'm unsure of the details). In the meantime, anyone trying to study at King's will have to brave through some very horrific facilities. The words of Dr. Hamish Rae echo loudly in my ears now: "Admittedly, you will be very displeased with some things here". It also states that there will be NO disruption to lectures. Unfortunatley, on more than one occassion, the lecture had to shout above the drilling overhead.
One more thing, why is it Angad, that you feel you must defend KCL Mathematics? You see, if I were to do the same with UCL, IC or Warwick (not that I'd be stupid enough to do so), then I'd be made to look a fool - the standard of course and prestige speaks for itself. Your insecurity shines through Mr. Chawla.
Ah, I've forgotten. Angad has not only been associated with a move to LSE but also - shock, horror - UCL and IC. In fact, do I not remember you telling me on MSN Messenger "I may see you at Imperial"?
As for dancing, who cares? I'm not the one who goes out trying, only to be made a freak on the dancefloor...
EDIT: you said verbosity...PAH! You could distill everything you said into one sentence: "I'm a King's Maths department arse licker"
I have to agree with Hicham, the course at KCL is total crap for mathematics. If you compare it to the likes of IC and UCL you can see that Kings falls far behind. I have friends at UCL doing mathematics and they are finding it very hard and they also seem to think (from what i showed them) that Kings mathematics course is not that challenging. If you want to do mathematics at university then i dont recommend KCL. Go to UCL, IC or Cambridge.
This debate rocks! Hicham I'm shocked. I did not intend to make this personal.
What I meant was that it was YOUR decision to come to KCL in the first place. It is not some kind of personal vandetta for Christ's sake!
It just seemed to me that from your last post, you felt that the course was too easy for your 'superior intellect.' I just thought that was a bit arrogant. Nothing personal.
This gives you no precedence to bring my home town into the issue. As far as the algebra is concerned. I actually needed to complete the Algebra homework. I asked for your help. I apologise, I won't again. I still went to the lecturers room to ask about the lecture. So naaa!
The fact that I comtemplated moving was simply because I felt studying mathematics diverged with what I wanted to do in the future. my tutor reassured me that it certainly wouldn't hinder my aspirations. thats all.
I love KCL. I want to make the best of what I have. KCL can challenge the big institutions. We certainly have the financial resources. It just goes back to the old problem of distribution. In a few years, we'll see where KCL is relative to other universities. You had expectations of KCL and it didn't live up to them. I'm defending King's because I go there and I'm content being there. I like it. Ah well, even though you may still maintain your scorn for kcl, it's cool. we'll still remain a maths dept and we'll get better.
What I meant was that it was YOUR decision to come to KCL in the first place. It is not some kind of personal vandetta for Christ's sake!
It just seemed to me that from your last post, you felt that the course was too easy for your 'superior intellect.' I just thought that was a bit arrogant. Nothing personal.
This gives you no precedence to bring my home town into the issue. As far as the algebra is concerned. I actually needed to complete the Algebra homework. I asked for your help. I apologise, I won't again. I still went to the lecturers room to ask about the lecture. So naaa!
The fact that I comtemplated moving was simply because I felt studying mathematics diverged with what I wanted to do in the future. my tutor reassured me that it certainly wouldn't hinder my aspirations. thats all.
I love KCL. I want to make the best of what I have. KCL can challenge the big institutions. We certainly have the financial resources. It just goes back to the old problem of distribution. In a few years, we'll see where KCL is relative to other universities. You had expectations of KCL and it didn't live up to them. I'm defending King's because I go there and I'm content being there. I like it. Ah well, even though you may still maintain your scorn for kcl, it's cool. we'll still remain a maths dept and we'll get better.
King's will never place itself on the Mathematics map. John Keats certainly put King's on the map, and so did Florence Nightingale and Desmond Tutu. There will be no great coming out of the King's Mathematics department - partly because the most able are being dragged elswhere; and not without basis! You can ask for help at any time you like - I still think we're friends. I'm sorry if you feel insulted, but I took your post quite personally - you can say I was provoked. Good luck to you, and your wishful thinking, but you know what I know; I'm just able to accept it 
and to think i was over the moon in response to my KCL maths offer..
HTale
King's will never place itself on the Mathematics map. John Keats certainly put King's on the map, and so did Florence Nightingale and Desmond Tutu. There will be no great coming out of the King's Mathematics department - partly because the most able are being dragged elswhere; and not without basis! You can ask for help at any time you like - I still think we're friends. I'm sorry if you feel insulted, but I took your post quite personally - you can say I was provoked. Good luck to you, and your wishful thinking, but you know what I know; I'm just able to accept it
Hicham, KCL may not be the best but it's not crap. This guy/girl is really happy they've got a offer at Kings. Well done, you need to be quite clever to get one
matt4504
Hicham, KCL may not be the best but it's not crap. This guy/girl is really happy they've got a offer at Kings. Well done, you need to be quite clever to get one
Well, you know, except obviously Bobby, as he's SO stupid and doesn't understand ANYTHING about his course; he may as well just drop out and work in Game, eh?
Shalomski.
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