The RAF Watch

Wzz
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Raptor)
Yeah, someone's got to check your ID and open the barrier - or is that RAF Police?
Nowadays, it's the MPGS; Military Provost Guard Service. In a pretty good move, someone noticed that the RAF Police don't join the service to open barriers; and that junior ranks don't want to spend days on the gate either as part of the station standby guard force.

So they formed the MPGS; they recruit people who have recently left the forces, normally the Army. They have to have experience of military work within the last four years, and they are purely responsible for security. Their job is to run security patrols, run the guardroom, police the perimeter, and yes, open the gates while checking IDs.

Having them employed to do this, however, means you get a much more professional service from a good bunch of guys who aren't too hacked off to be there; rather than encountering a depressed policeman who hasn't had time to do any of the proper counter-intelligence work he joined to do, or a hacked off Cpl PTI who certainly doesn't enjoy his stints on the guard force.
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GR29KHS
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#42
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(Original post by trickydicky)
does it damage esprit d'corps?
How can people feel that their job isn't 'soldiery' enough when they didn't apply to be a soldier in the first place?
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Huxley
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#43
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(Original post by Wzz)
Not in my experience. While the Army does indeed have everyone from Private to Lieutenant Colonel out their at the sharp end, you're right that the only people normally "over the line" with the RAF are aircrew. Most RAF people accept that they're doing their bit; and making sure from an engineering perspective that the GR4's ready for anything before it disappears off in the hands of a pair of officers is their part of the big picture.
In most respects you are correct, however, this is a quickly ageing notion.

Most members of the RAF are combatants - War Fighters first, specialists second. All combatant members are comfortable handling their personal weapons in defence of their positions (including the very necessary stints on guard duty).

Engineering personnel on helicopter squadrons have been deployed 'outside the wire' fixing cabs put down in the field. We have armorers working with the army on bomb disposal duties and medics responding to bombing incidents (sometimes with only the cover of the 'red cross' on their vehicle). The RAF have drivers working routes through hostile territories, and Media Ops staff working in the 'Red Zone' in Baghdad. Only recently, the RAF GR7 Detachment came under accurate rocket fire at their base in Afghanistan.

Our RAF Regiment troops are Airfield Defence specialists who carry out immensely important work - usually 'outside the wire'. The notion that the RAF is the only service that sends its officers to war is a peculiarly 'fast-jet' thing; to continue to suggest it does a great many serving members a tremendous disservice.

My 2 cents - not meant in a bolshy way, it's just a comment that winds me up!!
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GR29KHS
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#44
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Great post there Huxley - I hope it gives people food for thought
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Wzz
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#45
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Very true; although in my defence I did say "the only people normally "over the line" with the RAF are aircrew." I'm not an SH mate so I know precious little about their jobs there, but I do hope that everyone understands that as a member of the RAF you're not "safe;" you're still expected to pick up a rifle and fight.

People I went through IOT with didn't seem to get this. They thought it was all G&Ts at happy hour, blue uniforms and Christmas Draws; and were surprised with end-of-1st-tour postings to somewhere sandy!

"Warfighters first;" are you CinC PTC?
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Huxley
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Wzz)

"Warfighters first;" are you CinC PTC?
Not PTC Wzz
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GR29KHS
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#47
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I think in the military everyone does a good job and everyone is important. An MT driver is needed as much as a typhoon pilot. Most importantly, as has been said already, is that everyone may at one point have to pick up a rifle and 'go to war'.

I guess the banter will never go away though - and so it shouldn't. Humour and morale go hand in hand, especially in HM Forces.
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Shéamais
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#48
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I'm Glad I started, this thread, made me think, I had misconceptions from my 6 years as an air cadet, spending a misproportionate time doing greeny stuff both at camp and on normal parade nights. Now I'm a DETAPO (hopefully joining the Royal Signals) while at uni,

I didn't mean any disrespect to the RAF, as the RAF regiment is one of my choices at the end of university (and a TA tour abroad hopefully) along with the sigs, or a welsh infantry regiment.

I'd probably enjoy like in the RAF, my brother-in-law seems to be having a good time at the moment, but i think i'm destined for the green route
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Shéamais
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#49
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(Original post by Qui Audet Vincit)
I've known the RAF all my life and 3 months got introduced to the army, now I see the RAF as civvies in uniform/civil servants in uniform,

Maybe I will join the RAF one day tho, but probably it would only be the regiment for me, closest to the army
I'd love to be in the RAF- i spent 6 years in the air cadets and loved it, It's just the only jobs that'd i want to probably i wouldn't have the right degree for, I'm doing materials science, but i would have loved to be an engineering officer, (this is still open to me in the army as they don't specify what sort of engineering they want) or pilot (failed my aptitude tests, have had conflicting reports about being able to take them twice, didn't go for pilot when i took the tests though).

I've always been interested in the green stuff - hence the army. With the royal signals - its seems quite like the RAF in the fact that your job is of a technical nature and less of the soldery side but I'm edging that way.

Please feel free to correct any of my false statements, as it'll help me greatly in my decision making (in about 4 years)

--------------

(Original post by TomInPortsmouth)
You say the RAF are civvies in uniform but still want to join them as a wannabe infanteer. Maybe that's where you belong if you can't hack it as a proper soldier
Hmm, i was thinking the RAF Regiment are more like (and so i'm told better than) the Royal Artillery than the infantry, they just happen to have field squadrons,

but feel free to correct me
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LouE3D
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#50
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(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
He didn't demean them atall, and if you believe that then just wait till you're serving, a lot of guys there don't want to be there, and you will regularly hear that 'the Navy is ****' as was said while I was in the Navy, and 'the RAF is crap', you'll get a lot of it - best get used to it or you will indeed find yourself being very irritated and/or demoralised working alongside them - you may even be the minority amongst them and that'll make you a very lonely person.

Mark
You would hope though, that the people who complain when in the forces initially wanted to be there when they first joined up. I would also hope that they admired the service they are going into, not put it down?

I know people get cheesed of and fully expect to wonder what the hell I'm doing on occasion... whatever organisation you are in whether it be a supermarket or the police force, you are bound to call it and wonder what else you could be doing. Hopefully I'l be able to recal my motivation for joining in the first place and rememeber the respect that I developed for the RAF when I joined (all this being said with the hope that I actually get offered a place ).
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TopChick
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#51
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Originally Posted by Wzz
I think her point was that the Navy have a much higher chance of spending time at sea than the other services... yes, you may not be at sea all the time, but in a considerable amount of time in the RAF, I've only been at sea for biannual sea drills!



Naturally. As you'd expect - Seeing as you're a Naval Officer and all. And that wasn;t my point, I was purely pointing out, that the RN don't just operate off ships - they fly from HM Establishments too. And she mentioned that the Armywas 'Dry land'.. is that land more dry than that that the RAF operate from?

Hey ho, she is speaking.

Wzz spot on that was my point, I wasn't in anyway offending the navy, and i never mentioned the army either.
I meant dry land as in i'd rather be operating on that than the sea.

It was an RAF - Navy comparison, so I guess I should have put 'air or sea'. :rolleyes:

I know the RN don't just operate off ships, i mean, you have to go home sometime, right?
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GR4pilot
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#52
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#52
(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Lol, but they still fly! That's been my point from the start. That they may have different roles on the floor - but so do the RAF and the Navy. They all have different roles when not flying, but they all fly - thats what I've been saying.
But in the air they still have very different roles to the RAF!
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trickydicky
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Huxley)
In most respects you are correct, however, this is a quickly ageing notion.

Most members of the RAF are combatants - War Fighters first, specialists second. All combatant members are comfortable handling their personal weapons in defence of their positions (including the very necessary stints on guard duty).

Engineering personnel on helicopter squadrons have been deployed 'outside the wire' fixing cabs put down in the field. We have armorers working with the army on bomb disposal duties and medics responding to bombing incidents (sometimes with only the cover of the 'red cross' on their vehicle). The RAF have drivers working routes through hostile territories, and Media Ops staff working in the 'Red Zone' in Baghdad. Only recently, the RAF GR7 Detachment came under accurate rocket fire at their base in Afghanistan.

Our RAF Regiment troops are Airfield Defence specialists who carry out immensely important work - usually 'outside the wire'. The notion that the RAF is the only service that sends its officers to war is a peculiarly 'fast-jet' thing; to continue to suggest it does a great many serving members a tremendous disservice.

My 2 cents - not meant in a bolshy way, it's just a comment that winds me up!!
Noted with thanks.
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GR29KHS
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Qui Audet Vincit)
I didn't mean any disrespect to the RAF, as the RAF regiment is one of my choices at the end of university (and a TA tour abroad hopefully) along with the sigs, or a welsh infantry regiment.
You seem like a nice person so sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick with your comments - I'm afraid I couldn't spot the 'humour' in them if it was intended.
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Shéamais
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#55
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#55
I'm definitely not anti - RAF, I attended OASC in August 2004, probably didn't succeed because I wasn't sure about what I really wanted to do, I guess they picked up on it there, and I messed up the Interview, I don't think i was mature enough then,

I'll know what i want to do in about 4 or 5 years
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djmm
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#56
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Wzz,

This is the AAC you're referring to? When I say that their NCO pilots are kept in touch with basic soldiering, that doesn't mean they fly one morning then spend the afternoon acting like the SAS. It means they have to get pulled aside from flying to do drill; which is ridiculous. Their officers are similarly hamstrung by the Army's insistence that officers do an amazing amount of career development work; so they do relatively little flying.

Someone had suggested that the Army was a "ground force." You quoted the AAC as apparently not being a ground force. The point is that the AAC may indeed fly, but when not actually airborne they are still very much members of the Army. Whoever said the Army was a "ground force" is correct. The AAC is as well. They are just as desk-bound as any other aircrew.

As I've said, I know what you mean. But the AAC is an 'Air' corp. It flies, its guys are Pilots. They are Aircrew. When their not in the air they're on the ground, as are you! See whree I'm going? I know they do different jobs from you when on the ground ,but the 'Air Corp' is an 'Air' force, not a 'Ground Force' How many AC you see flying on the ground?!

You are wrong. We do a fair few courses, but nothing alongside the SAS and nothing in the Brecons.

I must've picked that up wrong, but I'm sure they do something along the lines of it? Just so if you get shot down, you don't just run away into a little ditch. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read that somewhere - might be outdated.

Your point was that an RAF pilot may well spend time at sea as well. My point is that 3 weeks a year is not the same as the several months a year an RN pilot can expect. You were attempting to say that a dislike of being at sea might not be a reason to pick the RAF instead of the RN, as the RAF embark too. I'm pointing out that you're wrong; my GR7 chums spend a couple of weeks a year on the boat, while SHAR and FAA RW mates spend a very very great deal longer.

No it wasn't. GR4 said: 'Don't want navy as don't want a career out at sea all the time'. I replied saying that RN Pilots aren't at sea all the time, and that an RAF pilot may be at sea for a bit too. I didn't say anything about picking the Navy or the Air Force based on that. Simply pointed out that the RAF guys go to sea too, that was all.

The Army is very much a ground-based force while the RAF is very air-minded. All your other duties, and the rest of your Army career post an AAC flying tour are ground based. All your other duties and the rest of your RAF career post a flying tour are air based. The Army treats its helicopters like airborne tanks. They operate as you'd expect an armoured group to work. From my experience with them, the AAC is very much part of the Army and hence very much a "ground force."

As said, yes, the Army is based on the ground, but the AAC flies in the air. Their not thinking of the ground when they are flying, they are airborne and an air force. Perhaps we should change the word 'force', if thats where the issue lies, howabout an air branch? Does that make more sense for you? A pilot, thinks of flying, and therefore is not thinking of the ground. Yes, when he comes back down, but you're also a 'ground force/branch' when not in the air. Catch my drift?

You said there's "usually trouble within the non-commissioned ranks because of NCA being promoted so early in their career." If you didn't mean people take offence to that, perhaps you could clear up what you did mean?

I know how people perceive NCA because I work for a fairly close-knit service. I know the NCOs under me very well and they know me. We don't operate some ridiculous two-tier system whereby they salute me as I sign out a jet then run away so I don't have to look at them in dirty overalls; we all work for the same squadrons so we all get on.

I meant there is usually aggro, not so much 'trouble', when it comes to who is higher, simply because of the RAF lads being shot up the ladder - the RN folks have more time under their belts, and as such feel they should be calling the shots. I didn't say that the NCCs aren't equally as good if not better than the Navy SRs, and I'm not saying it happens everywhere - but it does happen.

The RN guy should grow up and do his job; unless he wants the RAF guy to tell his men directly? I've never seen a situation on ops where people don't just get on with it. There's always an obvious command chain which puts someone in a certain post in charge of things; there's never the opportunity for a "but I'm more senior" pissing contest. Do you actually have SNECs in the Navy who don't have the maturity to just get on with it? Are you really implying that they'd start moaning about being given a job because they think their rank technically makes them more important than an other service's sergeants? If so, that's the worst advert I've seen for the Navy for some time.

Agreed. I simply said it happens, didn't give an opinion on it. And again, I'm not saying it happens all the time - simply it does occur. I was mentioning it, as they both believe they are more senior. And as I said, they tend to go for the Chief instead, purely because he's been in longer (I know that's not obviusly true, but to make my point). Well, it's a bit of bickering between the two, yes immature - but you have some matelots who think the Navy is the bees knees and the RAF is ****, so they may be stirring it up, as I'm sure you'll have RAF mates who think the RN is equally as ****. Well, out of the guys in the forces, as you'll be aware - it's a great mix, some people are ********s, some are cool, some are geeks, they fill the space with all kinds of people, so yes, some guys in the NAvy will think they are more important than another sergeant, but thats what happens, because it takes all kinds to make up the forces. Thats not just the Navy however, thats the other two too.

Her point was that the choice between RN and RAF could be made by asking yourself if you want to serve at sea. She doesn't, hence the RAF makes more sense. Your pointing out that the Navy spend some time on dry land is utterly meaningless; as you've just said yourself, you're going to spend more time at sea than any other service.

Then I said, about the RAF going to sea. I wasn't actually talking of how long you'll be there for, simply you'll be there for x amount of time.

No, your comment doesn't stand. Sitting here after about a year's service in the Navy at an impressionable age does not qualify you to warn people here that they will be in a "sad, lonely minority" if they don't hate their jobs! You have seen an exceptionally small part of one of the services from a very junior position for a short period of time, yet your post implies that's what it's like everywhere. Pick your words more carefully. Perhaps your section had poor morale; perhaps your base did. I've only ever worked in one place with an overall feeling of discontent and I've worked in lots where morale is high and people love their jobs.

Ok, so why doesn't it? I seen what I seen and formed my own opinion. I left in June and I'll be 20 in April. I wasn't 'impressionable' I was IC of 30 year old guys, one of who used to be a captain in the Merchant, so I wasn't just one of the team, I led them. I seen things for myself, and didn't need it to be pointed out to me. I didn't say she would be, if you read again; I said she may be the minority, and that is true. You're Aircrew, and as you've said most people won't ***** about that - however I'm sure some will. That's my point, not everyone will be happy, and if there are a few of them, and she starts arguing, theres a chance of becoming very unpopular. My word choice was fine, I said she may become a lonely minority. I may not have been on every establishment, but I spoke of what I know of which is there will be people unhappy with their jobs, can;t leave becuase they've signed for however long. Actually my base, and my squadron was fine, and I had a great time, I only said some places might not be so happy. I'm sure you have, I'm sure there are loads of places with high morale, however - who is to say thats where she is going to be?

What rot; you can't generalise about all the forces after one year's service in the Navy as a 17 year old, and I don't care how many CPOs told you "it's like that!" A lot of people in any job will moan, and even those that enjoy it will obviously complain every so often when faced with long hours, poor serviceability or another det. But to come out with comments like "the Navy is ****' as was said while I was in the Navy, and 'the RAF is crap', you'll get a lot of it" and "you may even be the minority amongst them and that'll make you a very lonely person." is awful advice.

Umm, why can't I? I'm free to say what I observed. Generally all over all the forces, a lot of people will *****. Thats true, so I was right. All over the three forces, a lot of people will not ***** and will smile from ear to ear, I didn't say they wouldn't. I didn't take what any Chiefs or PO's said, I took it for myself. Yes, I may have been in a NC role, but I met a lot of people not happy, and a lot who lapped it up. One reason just for exampleis how long people have been waiting to get on their Killicks and PO's courses. Put the whole morale down for a lot of guys who were expecting to get onto their killicks after 4 years or so (non artificer guys) and are still stuck as Able's after 9 years. So, I can speak generally of the Navy, as that is a fact: a lot of guys are unhappy, as are a lot of guys happy. Seeing as last year, more people left the AEM branch than the new AET branch brought in, even with them trying to recruit everyone and anyone for it. I didn't say she would be, again! I said she may be, and thats true, if you're in a squadron where the guys aren't happy then you're not going to be for long, working with them. I said best get used to it, because it happens, simple as that.

If you want to remind everyone about the details of your service; trade, unit etc; then you can be specific and comment on the morale of the people you worked alongside. Don't generalise; I've been in the RAF for a fair old bit of time but I'm in no way equipped to make such sweeping comments; you'll need people with a lot more experience and a lot more time in than me.

Look at the people in this forum; the majority are interested in joining the RAF officer cadre. Morale in that in general is fine; first tourists especially are a very happy bunch. Yes, people approaching option points are often getting to the stage where a military career no longer floats their boat, and they moan; but that's far from the feeling you get overall.

Ok, the morale amongst myself, my squad-mates, the JR's and SR's, and even the couple of LT's through to Commander, was fantastic. Hence, I want to join back up. The forces is fantastic, however expect a mix of people - some you'll like, some you won't, as is to be expected. Well, if you've been in then you can obviously say of what you've experienced, and know of - which is exactly what I've done. And I've justified myself, simply not everyone will be unhappy, but expect some to be, and get on with it - because they will be there.

Indeed. This all started form that. I'm sure the Officers in all the forces have high morale in general. But all I've said is not always. The only thing is, with all the RAF wannabes - they feel that because they are the majority, that they can say little things about the minority, well I'm just answering a few things from the beginning. Look at some of the ego's before people even get to OASC, I know you have to be confident to be an Officer, but some get carried away. And I couldn't be arsed with it when I replied.

(Original post by LouE3D)
You would hope though, that the people who complain when in the forces initially wanted to be there when they first joined up. I would also hope that they admired the service they are going into, not put it down?

I know people get cheesed of and fully expect to wonder what the hell I'm doing on occasion... whatever organisation you are in whether it be a supermarket or the police force, you are bound to call it and wonder what else you could be doing. Hopefully I'l be able to recal my motivation for joining in the first place and rememeber the respect that I developed for the RAF when I joined (all this being said with the hope that I actually get offered a place ).
Yep. I'm sure they did. But after time I'm talking about. When they want to leave and are just counting down the days till they can stick in a leave form.

Exactly that, but people get stuck in a job they thought would work out differant. Not being able to leave and not being happy with the job they are doing - they will bring down the team spirit for sure. I wish you all the best, hope you make it. And hope you never get into a situation where you question it, even when others do.

(Original post by TopChick)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wzz
I think her point was that the Navy have a much higher chance of spending time at sea than the other services... yes, you may not be at sea all the time, but in a considerable amount of time in the RAF, I've only been at sea for biannual sea drills!



Naturally. As you'd expect - Seeing as you're a Naval Officer and all. And that wasn;t my point, I was purely pointing out, that the RN don't just operate off ships - they fly from HM Establishments too. And she mentioned that the Armywas 'Dry land'.. is that land more dry than that that the RAF operate from?

Hey ho, she is speaking.

Wzz spot on that was my point, I wasn't in anyway offending the navy, and i never mentioned the army either.
I meant dry land as in i'd rather be operating on that than the sea.

It was an RAF - Navy comparison, so I guess I should have put 'air or sea'. :rolleyes:

I know the RN don't just operate off ships, i mean, you have to go home sometime, right?
Lol, apologies for she.

Ah yeah, thought you mentioned the army as dry land. Sorry.

Well, as would I - but a Carrier would be better than sea too

Lol, perhaps.

Indeed, not too often though - get a very nice pay for being at sea. Similar to those dirty submariners, the only reason someone could possibly want to join one of them is for the money, or the oppertunity to live without washing yourself for months on end

(Original post by GR4pilot)
But in the air they still have very different roles to the RAF!
Exactly, which might be the reason for someone to go for the Army instead of the RN/ RAF.

Mark
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LouE3D
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#57
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#57
(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)

Yep. I'm sure they did. But after time I'm talking about. When they want to leave and are just counting down the days till they can stick in a leave form.

Exactly that, but people get stuck in a job they thought would work out differant. Not being able to leave and not being happy with the job they are doing - they will bring down the team spirit for sure. I wish you all the best, hope you make it. And hope you never get into a situation where you question it, even when others do.
I think that was my initial point... I wouldn't want to work with some someone who had that neagative attitude at the BEGINING of their career.

Thank you for your support... I hope I make it too! In general, I try and keep everything in perspective, step back and look around at whats going on and what I'm doing and appreciate how lucky I am. I know I'm only young but experiances I have had mean that I always keep this in mind when it gets a bit rubbish. :p:
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Wzz
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#58
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#58
(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Wzz,
Gaaah! Learn how to quote properly!!

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
As I've said, I know what you mean. But the AAC is an 'Air' corp. It flies, its guys are Pilots. They are Aircrew. When their not in the air they're on the ground, as are you!
That doesn't make them an air-minded force. The way they operate is entirely along the lines of a ground force. You can argue semantics all you like; the fact that they happen to fly and operate aircraft doesn't mean they operate as an air force; they operate like a ground force with tanks that happen to operate above the ground.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
I must've picked that up wrong, but I'm sure they do something along the lines of it? Just so if you get shot down, you don't just run away into a little ditch. I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read that somewhere - might be outdated.
There are a lot of courses like that but none in the Brecons and none involving the SAS.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
No it wasn't. GR4 said: 'Don't want navy as don't want a career out at sea all the time'. I replied saying that RN Pilots aren't at sea all the time, and that an RAF pilot may be at sea for a bit too. I didn't say anything about picking the Navy or the Air Force based on that. Simply pointed out that the RAF guys go to sea too, that was all.
He's right though; if you don't want a career at sea all the time, you shouldn't be in the FAA; as you'll be at sea for a very large proportion of your time. Comparing an embarked SHAR squadron; which could be aboard for six months; to a visiting RAF GR7 squadron which may embark for 3 weeks; is daft. Again, you can argue semantics if you fancy being exceptionally pedantic; no, SHAR mates aren't at sea for 100% of their time. But they are for a massive percentage of it compared to the RAF, and hence if you don't like going to sea you should pick the RAF over the FAA.

For example; SHAR, Navy GR7/9, and all Navy RW assets do spend time at sea, sometimes a lot. RAF GR7/9 mates do spend a small amount of time at sea, often less than a month a year. RAF F3, GR4, Tristar, VC10, Hercules, Tutor, Hawk, Tucano, HS125, BAe 146, Dominie, King Air, Jaguar, Typhoon, Squirrel, Griffin and Nimrod mates spend NO time at sea EVER. Some SH mates might spend some time aboard.

Therefore, whether or not you like the concept of going to sea is a very good reason to consider when you're picking between FAA or RAF. You can't dismiss it with a casual "oh, but RAF pilots go to sea as well." The FAA go to sea lots, the RAF very very little.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
As said, yes, the Army is based on the ground, but the AAC flies in the air. Their not thinking of the ground when they are flying, they are airborne and an air force.
Wrong; they're very much thinking of the ground when airborne! Semantics again; yes, they fly in the air, but operate like any other ground unit within the Army. They do not have a primarily air-related way of running. I've spent time with them, and they do not have many complete career pilots like the RAF and FAA. They are an airborne attack group, like a different form of tank. They are a ground-biased force in the way they operate.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
I meant there is usually aggro, not so much 'trouble', when it comes to who is higher, simply because of the RAF lads being shot up the ladder - the RN folks have more time under their belts, and as such feel they should be calling the shots. I didn't say that the NCCs aren't equally as good if not better than the Navy SRs, and I'm not saying it happens everywhere - but it does happen.
Where does it happen? Don't be coy; where have you seen RN people complain or start trouble with RAF NCA due to their accelerated promotion? Anyone who joins in with this sort of stuff really needs to grow up and act like they've got these years of service you mention!

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Thats not just the Navy however, thats the other two too.
Again, a rather hefty generalisation for someone with very very little time in one of the services.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Then I said, about the RAF going to sea. I wasn't actually talking of how long you'll be there for, simply you'll be there for x amount of time.
.... if you wind up being a Harrier pilot or an unlucky SH mate, maybe. Are you honestly saying that someone shouldn't pick the RAF if they don't want seasickness because they go to sea? The Navy spend a phenomenal amount of time at sea, and like the majority of my colleagues I've never been anywhere near it; and only my Harrier mates have.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Ok, so why doesn't it? I seen what I seen and formed my own opinion. I left in June and I'll be 20 in April. I wasn't 'impressionable' I was IC of 30 year old guys, one of who used to be a captain in the Merchant, so I wasn't just one of the team, I led them. I seen things for myself, and didn't need it to be pointed out to me.
IC of what? I'm sorry, but at 18/19 when in you are impressionable, and regardless of any post you may have been given that doesn't change that fact. You're claiming morale was fine in your section, so where are all these people who hated it? Where are all the RAF and Army people who don't like their jobs?

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
I may not have been on every establishment, but I spoke of what I know of which is there will be people unhappy with their jobs, can;t leave becuase they've signed for however long.
How do you know that? The PVR/release from engagement system means there's no need for anyone to stay in longer than they want.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Umm, why can't I? I'm free to say what I observed. Generally all over all the forces, a lot of people will *****.
What experience with the Army and RAF do you have to quantify that? How many different establishments within the Navy did you see as an 18 year old with 1 year's service to his name to quantify that within your own service? Or is this just the words of some grizzled old CPO you've leapt on while waiting for your turn in the barrel?

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Well, if you've been in then you can obviously say of what you've experienced, and know of - which is exactly what I've done. And I've justified myself, simply not everyone will be unhappy, but expect some to be, and get on with it - because they will be there.
Well, go on then; what have you personally experienced? You've said that in your personal experience morale was fine; so what have you seen that says it won't be somewhere else? And how is that relevant to someone joining the RAF as an officer? I'd be very interested to hear what career path you followed anyway; I seem to remember you talking about being IC of a bunch of Lieutenants at some stage, which surprises me for an 18 year old with less than 6 months post-initial training.

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Indeed. This all started form that. I'm sure the Officers in all the forces have high morale in general. But all I've said is not always.
Are you guessing?

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
The only thing is, with all the RAF wannabes - they feel that because they are the majority, that they can say little things about the minority, well I'm just answering a few things from the beginning.
Again a slightly sweeping generalisation! What RAF wannabes here have been criticising the RN?

(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
Look at some of the ego's before people even get to OASC, I know you have to be confident to be an Officer, but some get carried away. And I couldn't be arsed with it when I replied.
If you have a problem with the specifics of what one person says, I suggest you take it up with that individual rather than come out with the torrents you have been. You may also notice, that egos and confidence aside, the majority of RAF wannabes on this forum have been successful at OASC!
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rugbyspaniel
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Well put Wzz
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GR4pilot
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#60
There is nothing wrong with my ego DJ; it's just the doorframe's too damned small is all

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