goal-setting for weight-gain etc

Hi fellas,
this question is for the workout crew on here

I've been going down the gym for a while now, in the past just doing cardio stuff to keep a reasonable level of fitness but I have a mate who's quite into his weights work so I started going down with him to the weights room, spotting him, having a few lessons on technique for the various presses/flys etc

I used to have a bit of an idea in my head that all weights room guys were vain self-obsessed idiots but I've realised in the main they're just ordinary blokes who are dedicated at what they do. And thats what appeals to me, the dedication and the discipline of following something and working to a goal, so when uni starts again in Jan I want to have a crack at this.

I'm 6ft 2 and 80kg. I wouldn't say I look skinny, but I have a wiry build, my arms and legs are naturally quite slim. I'd like to get a bit of mass on in proportion (whole body). I'm just wondering what realistic, reasonable goals are. Before someone says "thats up to you"...I know. Assume I'm going to be committed to a 3 times a week work out of about 1 hr at high intensity on a split routine (I'm currently doing my research to work it out), with a significantly increased frequency of eating.

What do you think would be a decent benchmark to start off for my nutrition and weight gain. The figure I've got in my head is to aim to get to about 90kg and then re-assess where I want to go.

How many calories a day do you think I should be aiming for and what sort of rate of gain of this? I've read that a 500 calorie surplus intake over expenditure would lead to about 1lb weight gain per week...do you think that is a good target to aim for at first? As I'm getting used to using the weights I'm not going to lift at my absolute 100% for a couple of weeks until I get used to my body telling me what level it can compete at. Then as my confidence grows I'll crank it up. But I don't want to pig-eat and put on fat faster than I am gaining muscle (I know you put on fat anyway bulking up and I'm cool with that, I just don't want to overtake myself)

1lb a week would mean a gain of about 7 kg in 4 months, I think I'd be happy with that and would expect that you could notice a difference. Would be nice to have confidence in the summer to go out in shorts.

I'm not planning on using supplements in the first stage, focusing on getting diet right. When my diet is right and I need the extra impetus I will look at getting some whey protein on board.

Do I sound like I'm on the right track with those goals?

Reply 1

l1ncs

You sound like you have the right idea. With good trainign and diet there is no reason why you should surpass your goals. make sure you have deadlifts and squats in there somewhere as well as the other free weight based exercises. dont waste your time on machines, some machine work is fine but dont let it dominate your workout. make sure you lift heavy (obviously with good form).

Reply 2

Bis

your approach to getting into shape is really great. all your ideas are great, especially the getting your diet and training on the right track before taking supplements.

a 500 calorie surplus may add 1lb per week but its very unlikely. it varies completely for everyone. even if it did add 1lb, very little of it would be muscle mass. taking extra calories will be needed but also make sure your getting alot of protein down you everyday and drink plenty of water. adding 10kg will take ALOT of time and motivation.

if you need any help with your exercise routine or anything about this then you can pm me for some help. all the research you have done so far seems good too. you seem on the right track but dont get too optimistic with you realistic goals.

good luck.

Reply 3

Barny

Train hard and eat well(read clean), plenty of protein, get your EFA's in, and then change carbs to suit activity and weight gain.

1lb a week is a very attainable target, just remember that quality muscle tissue takes time to grow.

As for routines, don't do a split routine, a whole body routine 3x per week is better, especially as you're quite new to training, have a search for "hypertrophy specific training" on the internet.

As for supplements and such, a fast acting whey protein is pretty much essential post-workout, so don't rule out whey from the onset, creatine will help with protein synthesis and strength, but isn't really that necessary.

For diet, you just need to make sure you're slightly above maintainance when it comes to calories, monitor and change if necessary, ie if gaining too much or if not gaining enough.

Eat big, and eat clean, fibrous veg(you know the sort), protein(fish, eggs, other meats etc.) and fats(nuts, oily fish etc.), you can allow junk in your diet, but limit it as much as possible, same with alcohol consumption.

any other q's let us know

Reply 4

MagicNMedicine

l1ncs

cheers mate, this is one thing I've been reading (squats and deadlifts)

yes I have got fed up of machines, I used to use machines while I was a cardio gym user - although I was still planning on using the lat pull down for part of my back routine, and some leg press, leg curl, tricep pulldown.

Can you give me some advice on the squats and deadlifts because I want to do these but am a bit nervous about getting the technique right so I don't injure myself. Should I get a weights belt for it and start pretty low weight?

Also what is the major advantage of doing squats/deadlifts because everywhere I read seems to suggest these are the dogs bolls' for proper mass gain.

One reason I set the goal of 10 kg is that without doing any real weights work, my weight has progressed roughly in this sequence

Age 20 - 65kg
Age 22 - 68-70kg
Age 24 - 75-76kg
Age 25 - 80kg

I used to be a real scrawner but naturally have put that on although I suppose I have improved my diet in that time...people often comment on how much I eat.
Typical breakfast for me will be 3 weetabix with some porridge oats on top, 2 potato waffles and eggs. Typical lunch will be 2 jacket potatoes with something (tuna/cottage cheese and a bit of salad or baked beans) Typical evening meal, chicken/fish, nearly always some rice in there and some form of veg, and I have more cereal before I go to bed. So I think already there I'm taking on board a fair few calories which is probably why I inch up the weight scales....maybe with cardio work I was burning it off which is why I haven't got fat. When I'm bulking I'm planning on supplementing with between meals snacks like cheese toasties, tuna or peanut butter sandwiches, extra jacket potatoes as a snack etc. Sometimes I will whack out a plate of pasta with a can of veg ratatouille/casserole from the supermarket as a 'sauce'. These are my plans at the moment....reasonably cheap stuff but healthy enough, I don't want to do a 'dirty bulk'

I suppose I am not going to get too caught up in chasing the scales - if I notice I'm increasing the weights I can lift and notice my body looking in better shape and feeling healthier I won't be too alarmed if I gain weight slowly.

Reply 5

Bis

imasillynarb

As for routines, don't do a split routine, a whole body routine 3x per week is better, especially as you're quite new to training, have a search for "hypertrophy specific training" on the internet.

full body workout is better than a split routine? what are you taking? hypertrophy specific isnt great for newbies either.

Reply 6

MagicNMedicine

I've just found that hypertrophy specific training

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst1.htm

this is the suggested routine...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst1b.htm

suggests 3 times a week doing
Legs: 10 squats, 2 x 10 stiff leg deads
Chest: 10 dips, 2 x 10 incline bench
Back: 2 x 10 chins, 2 x 10 rows
Traps: 10 shrugs
Shoulders: 10 shoulder press, 10 lateral raise, 10 rear delt
Biceps: 2 x 10 DB curls
Triceps: 2 x 10 tricep extensions
Calves: 2 x 10 calf raise
Abs: 2 x 10 crunch

seems like a lot there in one work out but there aren't many sets at each exercise

Reply 7

Barny

bis432

full body workout is better than a split routine? what are you taking? hypertrophy specific isnt great for newbies either.

errr, I'm failing to see where exactly you are confused?

HST is fine for newbies, infact its more newbie friendly than many other programmes, here is a decent description for the OP: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

MagicNMedicine - that routine ain't bad, but with HST the reps vary in periodic fashion, which is infact very important. Also you can just stick to the compound exercises in that list - squats, SLDL, bench, shoulder press, chins, rows, and add in 2-3 assitance exercises(curls/presses/pulldowns/shrugs/calf raises etc.) but do 2 one day and 2 on the other, if that makes sense.

Reply 8

Bis

split routine is better in almost all cases. hst is more of a 'fad' workout programme in my opinion.

2 sets of 10 reps for curls is all the biceps get and then only one days rest? they wont grow much from that. there needs to be a variation of exercise for each muscle to hit different fibers more and build a nice shape. it wouldnt tire the muscles out enough doing 1 or 2 sets for a muscle group.

and your recommending to him to do straight leg deadlifts? why? hamstrings aint that important. hardly anyone does it with correct form, especially people new to it. ive seen many people have injuries from it. even bruce lee injured himself for the rest of his life for executing a lower back exercise incorrectly.

Reply 9

MagicNMedicine

cheers for your advice fellas, this is one thing that I find a bit confusing as I start to research the subject....you find contradictory advice

eg diet - some say load on all the protein you can, others say excess protein is a waste and just gets excreted, your better loading extra carbs so your muscles have constant glycogen stores

I can see the logic behind the HST hitting each body part after 2-3 days to stimulate growth, but the first thing that struck me was what bis432 said there about the muscles growing from that. I can imagine from that HST routine that it would take a while to complete and I'd feel pretty drained energy wise at the end of it but I can't imagine feeling like any particular muscle group is fatigued....in the weights work I've done so far where my gym mate has just been showing me how to lift things correctly, I would normally do 3 sets of an exercise (eg bench press) and it's been the 2nd and 3rd I've felt something.

I also agree with bis 2nd point about wanting to hit each muscle group with different exercises because I don't want to develop the muscle fibres which move in a certain direction (for one exercise) at the expense of surrounding ones....sounds like it would just be like using machines really!

Reply 10

Bis

yeah its best to go for a variety of exercises with at least 2 sets each and a different range of reps. i usually go for about 9 sets on smaller muscles (like biceps) and about 12 on larger ones (chest) and manage to get it all in a 4 day split. if you just do 1 or 2 sets for a muscle it really wont get what it needs and you wont recruit all the fibers in it without a range of exercise. go for high volume.