Headscarves in schools - recent update

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claire1985
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#181
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#181
(Original post by vienna95)
i agree with your sentiments. maintaining equality of the sexes is one of the reasons supporting the banning of overtly religious symbols in the public service domain, particuarly in regard to Islam.
A good argument too
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yawn1
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#182
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#182
(Original post by claire1985)
Are you completely crazy, or just not acquainted with the movement that was 'feminism'? Firstly, what you are proposing makes women second class citizens, if men can walk around dressed in whatever they like-why can't women? Oh yes, i forgot, you are probably an oppressive man with an insecurity complex so want to subordinate women to make yourself feel better. Tough s**t, the movement has come too far for idiots like you to subordinate us again.
Wow - was it you who posted a suggestion on what to do with men's genitalia on the Hawking thread?

You don't have much regard for the masculine gender do you
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yawn1
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#183
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#183
(Original post by vienna95)
i agree with your sentiments. maintaining equality of the sexes is one of the reasons supporting the banning of overtly religious symbols in the public service domain, particuarly in regard to Islam.
Supposing male Muslims wanted to wear headscarves - they wouldn't be banned then according to the reason you state.

Although the French government are trying to give the impression that they are treating all faiths the same by banning large crucifixes and skull caps it's really about a problem with Islam isn't it?

Are they also banning neo-nazi groups from displaying swaztikas in public?

If they are not, they should, on the basis of parity of esteem.

Let's go the whole hog and ban overtly large baguettes - they have no place in a democracy! People could feel threatened by them as someone could grab a large one and hit someone over the head with it!
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claire1985
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#184
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#184
(Original post by yawn1)
Wow - was it you who posted a suggestion on what to do with men's genitalia on the Hawking thread?

You don't have much regard for the masculine gender do you
I beg to differ. My objection to men is not specific to their gender but to their violent nature (see Hawking thread) and their undeniable need to supress women. I am not saying all men are like this, but the person who I was replying to on both posts displayed or suggested these qualities. You can verify this with B00kWorm on this forum, i don't hate men.
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Howard
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#185
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#185
(Original post by yawn1)
Supposing male Muslims wanted to wear headscarves - they wouldn't be banned then according to the reason you state.

Although the French government are trying to give the impression that they are treating all faiths the same by banning large crucifixes and skull caps it's really about a problem with Islam isn't it?

Are they also banning neo-nazi groups from displaying swaztikas in public?

If they are not, they should, on the basis of parity of esteem.

Let's go the whole hog and ban overtly large baguettes - they have no place in a democracy! People could feel threatened by them as someone could grab a large one and hit someone over the head with it!
I shouldn't be surprized to find that neo-nazi groups are already banned from the public display of nazi paraphanalia. Thet certainly are in Germany.

But this is a discussion about separation of church and state and not political freedom of expression, or the threat of being beaten over the head with a baguette or "stoned" to death by week old croissants.
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yawn1
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#186
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#186
(Original post by claire1985)
I beg to differ. My objection to men is not specific to their gender but to their violent nature (see Hawking thread) and their undeniable need to supress women. I am not saying all men are like this, but the person who I was replying to on both posts displayed or suggested these qualities. You can verify this with B00kWorm on this forum, i don't hate men.
OK. I believe you.
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yawn1
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#187
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#187
(Original post by Howard)
I shouldn't be surprized to find that neo-nazi groups are already banned from the public display of nazi paraphanalia. Thet certainly are in Germany.

But this is a discussion about separation of church and state and not political freedom of expression, or the threat of being beaten over the head with a baguette or "stoned" to death by week old croissants.
But I thought you believed that faith and political viewpoints were intrinsically linked. If that is the case then there is a denial of political as well as religious freedom.

In the past in France (during and just after the Revolution) many religious (I speak in terms of ministers, pastors, nuns etc) were persecuted and exiled and even guillotined for wearing crucifixes around their necks. Has France become savage again?
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Howard
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#188
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#188
(Original post by yawn1)
But I thought you believed that faith and political viewpoints were intrinsically linked. If that is the case then there is a denial of political as well as religious freedom.

In the past in France (during and just after the Revolution) many religious (I speak in terms of ministers, pastors, nuns etc) were persecuted and exiled and even guillotined for wearing crucifixes around their necks. Has France become savage again?
Political viewpoints Intrinsically linked to religious faith?

Well, sometimes you can see a pattern. There is for example a proven link between Republican party membership and the amount of times those members go the church and Democrat party members and how infrequently they go to church!

Having said that national socialism is not intrinsically linked to faith at all, and nor for that matter is communism.
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Vienna
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#189
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#189
(Original post by yawn1)
Supposing male Muslims wanted to wear headscarves - they wouldn't be banned then according to the reason you state.
that reason alone? if the headscarf was not representative of inequality between Muslim men and women, my point would not hold. but it does, and so does my point.

Although the French government are trying to give the impression that they are treating all faiths the same by banning large crucifixes and skull caps it's really about a problem with Islam isn't it?
a small crucifix used to be overlooked, the Jewish community is relatively small. christian and jewish pupils are able to lead a full school life. the problem is not with Islam, its Islams problem with secular state education.

Are they also banning neo-nazi groups from displaying swaztikas in public?

If they are not, they should, on the basis of parity of esteem.
it is illegal anyway.

Let's go the whole hog and ban overtly large baguettes - they have no place in a democracy! People could feel threatened by them as someone could grab a large one and hit someone over the head with it!
why get idiotic?
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yawn1
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#190
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#190
(Original post by vienna95)
that reason alone? if the headscarf was not representative of inequality between Muslim men and women, my point would not hold. but it does, and so does my point.


a small crucifix used to be overlooked, the Jewish community is relatively small. christian and jewish pupils are able to lead a full school life. the problem is not with Islam, its Islams problem with secular state education.



it is illegal anyway.



why get idiotic?
I can't understand why the wearing of a headscarf is an inequality for Muslim women. Jewish men wear skullcaps, Jewish women don't - so what's the problem?

It mush be difficult for Muslims to see that other faith groups are allowed their symbols in schools whereas theirs are not.

I do not consider that taking this discussion to a logical conclusion is idiotic - the proposed measures are idiotic in my opinion. But then I have no problem with people of different races and creeds as I respect them all - and their right not to have their rights taken from them.
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Vienna
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#191
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#191
(Original post by yawn1)
I can't understand why the wearing of a headscarf is an inequality for Muslim women. Jewish men wear skullcaps, Jewish women don't - so what's the problem?
are skullcaps being banned?

It mush be difficult for Muslims to see that other faith groups are allowed their symbols in schools whereas theirs are not.
you are aware that this legislation is for all religion.

I do not consider that taking this discussion to a logical conclusion is idiotic - the proposed measures are idiotic in my opinion. But then I have no problem with people of different races and creeds as I respect them all - and their right not to have their rights taken from them.
Are you saying the problem
what have baguettes got to do with religion? your last 2 sentences reflect ur support for secularity,not religion.
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Cyst
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#192
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#192
Dunno if this has been said already but apparently the French government are thinking of banning halal meat all in the name of equality.
Also, a question to those who think its right to ban the head scarf, what if a woman by choice, not by culture, or family, or tratdition or any other persons, chooses to wear a head scarf, I know many people like that. Surely those who agree with the banning lose their argument?
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yawn1
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#193
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#193
(Original post by vienna95)
are skullcaps being banned?



you are aware that this legislation is for all religion.



what have baguettes got to do with religion? your last 2 sentences reflect ur support for secularity,not religion.
You know very well that my opinions do not support secularism but rather the freedom to practice faiths unhindered by draconian legislation which will result in much angst. And for what?

Oh, and according to what I have read, no, skullcaps (albeit small ones - which they would be anyway as they are supposed to cover only the crown of the head) will not be banned. However, feel free to re-educate me on this point if my sources are incorrect.
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DoctorNO
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#194
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#194
(Original post by Cyst)
Dunno if this has been said already but apparently the French government are thinking of banning halal meat all in the name of equality.
No I think its in the name of ANIMAL RIGHTS.
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JSM
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#195
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#195
(Original post by claire1985)
I beg to differ. My objection to men is not specific to their gender but to their violent nature (see Hawking thread) and their undeniable need to supress women. I am not saying all men are like this, but the person who I was replying to on both posts displayed or suggested these qualities. You can verify this with B00kWorm on this forum, i don't hate men.
wow, thats harsh i know many girls who are far more creatively violent than boys are and what is wrong with violence anyawya
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JSM
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#196
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#196
(Original post by DoctorNO)
No I think its in the name of ANIMAL RIGHTS.
lol-0 thats funny, animal rights
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claire1985
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#197
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#197
(Original post by JSM)
wow, thats harsh i know many girls who are far more creatively violent than boys are and what is wrong with violence anyawya
Erm, men are more violent than women : proven. What is wrong with violence? do i really need to tell you that?
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Vienna
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#198
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#198
(Original post by Cyst)
Dunno if this has been said already but apparently the French government are thinking of banning halal meat all in the name of equality.
can you provide us with a source?

Also, a question to those who think its right to ban the head scarf, what if a woman by choice, not by culture, or family, or tratdition or any other persons, chooses to wear a head scarf, I know many people like that. Surely those who agree with the banning lose their argument?
which argument is that?
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Vienna
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#199
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#199
(Original post by yawn1)
You know very well that my opinions do not support secularism but rather the freedom to practice faiths unhindered by draconian legislation which will result in much angst. And for what?

Oh, and according to what I have read, no, skullcaps (albeit small ones - which they would be anyway as they are supposed to cover only the crown of the head) will not be banned. However, feel free to re-educate me on this point if my sources are incorrect.
you are incorrect. skullcaps, crucifixes and head-dress will all be prohibited within school.
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Jamie
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#200
Report Thread starter 17 years ago
#200
(Original post by DoctorNO)
No I think its in the name of ANIMAL RIGHTS.
Animal rights? Lets face it, they'd get worse treatment if they were in the wild
J
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