Headscarves in schools - recent update

Watch
This discussion is closed.
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#201
Report 17 years ago
#201
(Original post by vienna95)
you are incorrect. skullcaps, crucifixes and head-dress will all be prohibited within school.
Overly large crucifixes are to be banned, not smaller ones!! So really it will discriminate more against Jews and Muslims.

The Grand Rabbi of France, Joseph Sitruk, opposes the ban and has appealed for tolerance.

Others of no particular affiliation have argued that unity comes NOT through uniformity but through diversity. Far from encouraging integration it will do the opposite, victimising Muslims in particular (most of whom are North African immigrants) and potentially pushing some towards politicial extremism.

Article 9 of the European C0nvention on Human Rights enshrines the freedom to mainifest one's religion or beliefs, subject "only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others". And may I remind anyone who is tempted to say "what about the rights of people not to have to look at these ?offensive items of apparel" that no one has a paramount right when they inflict on the rights of others!! No win situation - eh?

Voltaire, in the 18th century criticised the lack of tolerance in French society. If he was to revisit France today he would see that nothing has changed.
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#202
Report 17 years ago
#202
(Original post by yawn1)
Overly large crucifixes are to be banned, not smaller ones!! So really it will discriminate more against Jews and Muslims.
the ban applies to prominent symbols yes. a small crucifix tucked into ur shirt is not prominent.

The Grand Rabbi of France, Joseph Sitruk, opposes the ban and has appealed for tolerance.
and i can name Muslim leaders who are in support of Sarkozy and the state.

Others of no particular affiliation have argued that unity comes NOT through uniformity but through diversity. Far from encouraging integration it will do the opposite, victimising Muslims in particular (most of whom are North African immigrants) and potentially pushing some towards politicial extremism.
be careful when distinguishing between feeling victimised and being victimised.

Article 9 of the European C0nvention on Human Rights enshrines the freedom to mainifest one's religion or beliefs, subject "only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others".
seems fair.

And may I remind anyone who is tempted to say "what about the rights of people not to have to look at these ?offensive items of apparel" that no one has a paramount right when they inflict on the rights of others!! No win situation - eh?
what?

Voltaire, in the 18th century criticised the lack of tolerance in French society. If he was to revisit France today he would see that nothing has changed.
you really should visit France.
0
jammyd
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#203
Report 17 years ago
#203
(Original post by vienna95)

and i can name Muslim leaders who are in support of Sarkozy and the state.
Do you think Chirac will get kicked out because of corruption and Sarkozy will be the new President?
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#204
Report 17 years ago
#204
(Original post by jammyd)
Do you think Chirac will get kicked out because of corruption and Sarkozy will be the new President?
i dont think Chirac will go, but Sarkozy will be the next President.
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#205
Report 17 years ago
#205
(Original post by vienna95)
the ban applies to prominent symbols yes. a small crucifix tucked into ur shirt is not prominent.

Does the 'prominent symbols' qualification actually state that the crucifix must be tucked into one's shirt - I think not.
and i can name Muslim leaders who are in support of Sarkozy and the state.
Go on then - are they of such social significance as the Chief Rabbi of France though?



be careful when distinguishing between feeling victimised and being victimised.
I do not have to be careful as I did not voice that opinion - it was voiced by non religious affiliated organisations. Do you think that they 'feel victimised or are victimised' or is it because they think the proposed legislation is unjust?


seems fair.
Glad you think so because if Chirac tries to pass this legislation I can see that Article 9 of Human Rights Convention will win the appeal for those opposing him.


what?
Read it again if you didn't understand the first time. As I have stated before, comlex sentance construction seems to go over your head!



you really should visit France.
How do you know I haven't? What you may think is a tolerant French society is not necessarily tolerant by British standards. We Brits pride ourselves on tolerance!
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#206
Report 17 years ago
#206
(Original post by yawn1)
How do you know I haven't? What you may think is a tolerant French society is not necessarily tolerant by British standards. We Brits pride ourselves on tolerance!
France belongs to the French not the British or the Muslim council.
0
kildare
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#207
Report 17 years ago
#207
(Original post by vienna95)
France belongs to the French not the British or the Muslim council.
True. But many members of the Muslim Council are as French as Chirac himself.
0
kildare
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#208
Report 17 years ago
#208
(Original post by boygenious)
does that include the french canadians?
Emmm, no not really.
0
Jamie
Badges: 18
#209
Report Thread starter 17 years ago
#209
(Original post by vienna95)
France belongs to the French not the British or the Muslim council.
WEll if they want to put a multi-faith cover on Encore Tricole the they had best damn well abide with it.
J
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#210
Report 17 years ago
#210
(Original post by vienna95)
France belongs to the French not the British or the Muslim council.
What a confused statement :confused:
This, in response to my assertion that what is deemed tolerant in France is not deemed tolerant in Britain (the Brits being a more tolerant society that the French, apparently).

The question of the restrictive proposals advanced by Chirac is posted on a British website so whilst France does not belong to Britain(not anymore anyway!) the opinions do!!
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#211
Report 17 years ago
#211
(Original post by yawn1)
What a confused statement :confused:
This, in response to my assertion that what is deemed tolerant in France is not deemed tolerant in Britain (the Brits being a more tolerant society that the French, apparently).

The question of the restrictive proposals advanced by Chirac is posted on a British website so whilst France does not belong to Britain(not anymore anyway!) the opinions do!!
confused? it was merely pointing out that French society is by and for the French people. if it suits them then what you or I(assuming ure Briitsh) or the Muslim council think is theoretically irrelevant.
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#212
Report 17 years ago
#212
(Original post by vienna95)
confused? it was merely pointing out that French society is by and for the French people. if it suits them then what you or I(assuming ure Briitsh) or the Muslim council think is theoretically irrelevant.
I actually agree with you that what I think (yes, I am British although I'm still not sure that you are) is irrelevant to the predicament that France finds itself in over this issure - although of course, I and my fellow countrymen plus many other nations in the world are appalled by the proposals.

I would suggest that as it has nothing to do with this country that we don't waste any more time in discussing the matter.
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#213
Report 17 years ago
#213
(Original post by yawn1)
I actually agree with you that what I think (yes, I am British although I'm still not sure that you are) is irrelevant to the predicament that France finds itself in over this issure - although of course, I and my fellow countrymen plus many other nations in the world are appalled by the proposals.

I would suggest that as it has nothing to do with this country that we don't waste any more time in discussing the matter.
which nations?
appalled by which proposals?
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#214
Report 17 years ago
#214
(Original post by vienna95)
which nations?
appalled by which proposals?
Your pattern of posting to 'ensnare' forum members to reply has become too obvious.
I have already said why this thread should not continue - you say it is irrelevant what we think - so why seek further comment?
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#215
Report 17 years ago
#215
Are you British - born and bred - Vienna? You always evade the question so I am being very blunt and am asking for a yes or no reply.
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#216
Report 17 years ago
#216
(Original post by yawn1)
Your pattern of posting to 'ensnare' forum members to reply has become too obvious.
I have already said why this thread should not continue - you say it is irrelevant what we think - so why seek further comment?
what on earth are u talking about? if you say other nations, i want to hear about them. if u make a comment, i want you to explain it to me.
we are discussing the merits of the legislation, why should that not continue?
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#217
Report 17 years ago
#217
(Original post by yawn1)
Are you British - born and bred - Vienna? You always evade the question so I am being very blunt and am asking for a yes or no reply.
ive never evaded the question. where have u asked it before? im British and have never inferred otherwise.
0
yawn1
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#218
Report 17 years ago
#218
(Original post by vienna95)
ive never evaded the question. where have u asked it before? im British and have never inferred otherwise.
You know I am not going to waste my time trawling through thousands of posts both of us have made in past times to prove I have asked you before, you will have to take my word for it, same as I have to take your word that you are British.

My suspicion that you were not educated in this country (i.e. reared here) is because of the nature of the semantics you use and your sentence construction. It is more allied to someone who has been educated in a language other than English. I hasten to add that I am intending no criticism of your writing abilities - you express yourself clearly enough, just with a very slight foreign tinge.

Political posters in particular, will attempt to gain agreement for their cause by trying to identify a common bond with their target audience - and one of the first principals of this is national identity. Interesting how the human psyche works, isn't it?
0
Vienna
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#219
Report 17 years ago
#219
(Original post by yawn1)
My suspicion that you were not educated in this country (i.e. reared here) is because of the nature of the semantics you use and your sentence construction. It is more allied to someone who has been educated in a language other than English. I hasten to add that I am intending no criticism of your writing abilities - you express yourself clearly enough, just with a very slight foreign tinge.


hehe, i suppose this will be in vain but, examples?
0
Joey_Johns
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#220
Report 17 years ago
#220
(Original post by yawn1)
You know I am not going to waste my time trawling through thousands of posts both of us have made in past times to prove I have asked you before, you will have to take my word for it, same as I have to take your word that you are British.

My suspicion that you were not educated in this country (i.e. reared here) is because of the nature of the semantics you use and your sentence construction. It is more allied to someone who has been educated in a language other than English. I hasten to add that I am intending no criticism of your writing abilities - you express yourself clearly enough, just with a very slight foreign tinge.

Political posters in particular, will attempt to gain agreement for their cause by trying to identify a common bond with their target audience - and one of the first principals of this is national identity. Interesting how the human psyche works, isn't it?
If she has lived in a foreign country for a while it would explain things dont you think? Its not as though its a big deal anyway.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

What would make a great online university open day?

Virtual campus tour (62)
19.38%
Virtual accommodation tour (45)
14.06%
Find out about sports clubs, societies and facilities (16)
5%
Video content about the local area (3)
0.94%
Webinars with lecturers (11)
3.44%
Taster lectures or seminars (70)
21.88%
Speak to current students studying my course (69)
21.56%
Speak to current students about the uni in general (13)
4.06%
Fun online activities or experiences (12)
3.75%
Connecting with careers services or employers (8)
2.5%
Info about student wellbeing and support services (5)
1.56%
Something else (let us know in the thread!) (6)
1.88%

Watched Threads

View All