Headscarves in schools - recent update

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Howard
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#61
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#61
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Yes should at least be prohibited from making any religious or political expressions.

Im not quite sure of the students though.
Well, wouldn't that make education a jolly bland business? I studied some economics at college taught by a hard line Marxist economics lecturer who wasn't afraid to let his views be known.

It made for much more interesting tutorials enabling the development of opinion within the group, and generating a lot of healthy argument and counter-argument.

Economics is of course the "gray science" and it would have been a lot grayer if it was taught too objectively......."Marx said this, Friedman said that, Smith said this, etc"
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DoctorNO
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Howard)
Well, wouldn't that make education a jolly bland business? I studied some economics at college taught by a hard line Marxist economics lecturer who wasn't afraid to let his views be known.

It made for much more interesting tutorials enabling the development of opinion within the group, and generating a lot of healthy argument and counter-argument.

Economics is of course the "gray science" and it would have been a lot grayer if it was taught too objectively......."Marx said this, Friedman said that, Smith said this, etc"
Teachers & Professors could discuss religion & politics as long as they dont show any obvious personal preferences. They are people of service & authority entrusted to teach & not show any bias.
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Chimpy
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#63
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#63
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Teachers & Professors could discuss religion & politics as long as they dont show any obvious personal preferences. They are people of service & authority entrusted to teach & not show any bias.
Precisely - not expressing an opinion doesn't make things bland. I merely stated that obvious bias from a teacher was a bad thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong in creating a balanced debate, in fact this is very healthy. The problem is that teachers are figures of authority and should therefore ensure that they remain somewhat impartial and open to ideas from students, instead of preaching their own personal ideology. Whilst a professor who doesn't hide his politics from his students is admirable, you have to question whether it is a healthy way to conduct yourself as a teacher. Teachers are there to inform, not condition. If only the BBC could conduct theselves in the same way

As for the students, I don't believe that wearing a headscarf could ever be branded as abusing freedom of speach for political gain. To say so would infer that anyone who has worn a crucifix has done the same.
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Jamie
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Howard)
You'd hate it here! All that warm weather, bikini-clad women........awful.....
all that sun, bikini clad women, and you are sat in front of a computer...
i do hope its night time
J
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Jamie
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Howard)
Well, wouldn't that make education a jolly bland business? I studied some economics at college taught by a hard line Marxist economics lecturer who wasn't afraid to let his views be known.

It made for much more interesting tutorials enabling the development of opinion within the group, and generating a lot of healthy argument and counter-argument.

Economics is of course the "gray science" and it would have been a lot grayer if it was taught too objectively......."Marx said this, Friedman said that, Smith said this, etc"
mmm, my teacher was the lib dem councillor.
I really think som ignorance is showing through on this board
Did none of you do RE/RS/RI at school.
These icons of muslims, jews and sikhs are an integral part of their religion. especially sikhs. Its not like wearing a football shirt to show your support for them.
the beard is symbolic, as is the comb and the turban. cant remember what of (i was 15 when i did RE) but i still respect it as part of their religion
J
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Jamie
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#66
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#66
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Teachers & Professors could discuss religion & politics as long as they dont show any obvious personal preferences. They are people of service & authority entrusted to teach & not show any bias.
well if they were to try that here then the crisis in teaching and NHS would deepen. Basically it can only be enforced in state run facilities. which means you have less freedom in state facilities than private ones.
How many NHS doctors do you think would stick around if they brought in legislation here?
And believe me there are plenty of muslim women and sikh men as doctors.
enough to make a dent thats for sure
J
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Howard
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#67
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(Original post by foolfarian)
mmm, my teacher was the lib dem councillor.
I really think som ignorance is showing through on this board
Did none of you do RE/RS/RI at school.
These icons of muslims, jews and sikhs are an integral part of their religion. especially sikhs. Its not like wearing a football shirt to show your support for them.
the beard is symbolic, as is the comb and the turban. cant remember what of (i was 15 when i did RE) but i still respect it as part of their religion
J
Yes. I did RE at school. Unfortunately I spent most the time sitting at the back of the classroom asleep, or on those rare occasions I was awakened from my slumber, throwing stuff at the other kids.

I'm afraid I never managed to get very enthused about Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Budda or anybody else; nor was I overwhelmed with interest at the prospect of learning about Ramadam, Sikh temples, barmitzva's, etc.

In fact, I can feel my eyelids growing heavy just thinking about it.........ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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DoctorNO
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#68
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#68
(Original post by foolfarian)
These icons of muslims, jews and sikhs are an integral part of their religion. especially sikhs. Its not like wearing a football shirt to show your support for them.
Then they shouldnt take the job. Some jobs have definite requirements or limitations. Like the Lifeguard job. Just because a female lifeguard converts to islam doesnt mean she had the right to wear the whole muslimah garb and be able to perform her job effectively.
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DoctorNO
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#69
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Besides those Icons are merely optional. That is why there are muslimahs who dont wear the hijab. That is why there are sikhs who dont wear turbans or carry daggers. That is why there are catholics who dont wear crosses.
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kildare
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#70
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#70
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Then they shouldnt take the job. Some jobs have definite requirements or limitations. Like the Lifeguard job. Just because a female lifeguard converts to islam doesnt mean she had the right to wear the whole muslimah garb and be able to perform her job effectively.
How does the veil render teachers and doctors 'unable to perform their jobs effectivly'?
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kildare
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#71
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#71
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Besides those Icons are merely optional. That is why there are muslimahs who dont wear the hijab. That is why there are sikhs who dont wear turbans or carry daggers. That is why there are catholics who dont wear crosses.
The people who believe they are an integral part of their faith don't look upon the as 'optional'.
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yawn1
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#72
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If the French government are going to prohibit the wearing of 'overt' religious symbols when are they going to prohibit the wearing of 'overt' political symbols?
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DoctorNO
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#73
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(Original post by kildare)
How does the veil render teachers and doctors 'unable to perform their jobs effectivly'?
* Because their obvious show of religious bias are unfairly conditioning the students towards their religious preferences.

* Because it distracts students from their studies

* Because it bothers some students.


I know, I talk from experience. Being a protestant under a teacher nun.
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kildare
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#74
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#74
* Because their obvious show of religious bias are unfairly conditioning the students towards their religious preferences.

-How?

* Because it distracts students from their studies

-How?

* Because it bothers some students.

-Their weight could bother some students. You can't fire someone because they are fat though.

I know, I talk from experience. Being a protestant under a teacher nun.

-Most of my education was spent under the teaching of either the Christian Brothers or the Dominican monks. I always respected their right to wear whatever, in line with their beliefs, they saw fit.
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DoctorNO
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#75
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#75
(Original post by kildare)
* Because their obvious show of religious bias are unfairly conditioning the students towards their religious preferences.

-How?

* Because it distracts students from their studies

-How?
By looking at the teacher.

(Original post by kildare)
* Because it bothers some students.

-Their weight could bother some students. You can't fire someone because they are fat though.

I know, I talk from experience. Being a protestant under a teacher nun.

-Most of my education was spent under the teaching of either the
Christian Brothers or the Dominican monks. I always respected their right to wear whatever, in line with their beliefs, they saw fit.
Not everyone is like you. For me it was unfair.
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kildare
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#76
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#76
(Original post by DoctorNO)
By looking at the teacher.

Could you please elaborate?

Not everyone is like you. For me it was unfair.

Not as unfair it would be on the teacher to fire her because of her religious beliefs...
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DoctorNO
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#77
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#77
Students are customers and customers are always right and always the priority. Religious icons are merely optional and if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job.

And if you can elaborate how t.v. shows are distracting students from studying then i would elaborate to you how religious symbols are distracting students from learning from the teacher.
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kildare
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#78
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#78
Students are customers and customers are always right and always the priority.

In a private school perhaps. The analogy is flawed as it is not the teachers who are the ultimate providers, it is the State- which has an obligation to respect the rights and wishes of both students and teachers.

Religious icons are merely optional and if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job.

- It is part of their religon. The state (or any other employer for that matter) is not allowed to discriminate on relgious grounds.


And if you can elaborate how t.v. shows are distracting students from studying then i would elaborate to you how religious symbols are distracting students from learning from the teacher.

-Why should I elaborate on something I haven't claimed to be true? I'm asking you to back up your statements.
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MadNatSci
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Tnacilppa)
The point being made about hospitals is that female patients should not be allowed to refuse help from male doctors (and visa versa). I love how one person says they're gonna fire religious doctors and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon!

Can you not understand why a woman would maybe prefer to be examined by a female doctor? Or a man, by a male one? Why should this not be allowed? That's daft.
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zizero
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#80
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#80
(Original post by MadNatSci)
Can you not understand why a woman would maybe prefer to be examined by a female doctor? Or a man, by a male one? Why should this not be allowed? That's daft.
If you expect your health care to be paid for by taxpayer's money, then you have to comply to certain rules. Why should the taxpayer bear extra expenses just because someone wants special treatment for solely religious reasons?
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