Headscarves in schools - recent update

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DoctorNO
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#81
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#81
(Original post by kildare)
Students are customers and customers are always right and always the priority.

In a private school perhaps. The analogy is flawed as it is not the teachers who are the ultimate providers, it is the State- which has an obligation to respect the rights and wishes of both students and teachers.
And in every job, profession or career there are some requirements or restrictions. If you cannot abide by those then the job is not for you. Students are the priority even in public schools. Teachers are supposed to be unbiased.

(Original post by kildare)
Religious icons are merely optional and if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job.

- It is part of their religon. The state (or any other employer for that matter) is not allowed to discriminate on relgious grounds.
being a "part" does not equate to being a requirement. There are thousands of muslimahs who dont wear hijabs. Millions of catholics who dont wear crosses.

(Original post by kildare)
And if you can elaborate how t.v. shows are distracting students from studying then i would elaborate to you how religious symbols are distracting students from learning from the teacher.

-Why should I elaborate on something I haven't claimed to be true? I'm asking you to back up your statements.
Because it is something so obvious. Its like asking why heat warms food.

Even if you dont buy this, you cannot deny the fact that some students do complain of being distracted by a teacher's religious expressions. I am one of them. The issue here is the "what" not the "how". What religious expressions are causing and not how it is causing.
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Jamie
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#82
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#82
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Then they shouldnt take the job. Some jobs have definite requirements or limitations. Like the Lifeguard job. Just because a female lifeguard converts to islam doesnt mean she had the right to wear the whole muslimah garb and be able to perform her job effectively.
so you think a muslim wouldn't be able to teach or be medically competent.
your analogy bites.
J
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Jamie
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#83
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#83
(Original post by DoctorNO)
* Because their obvious show of religious bias are unfairly conditioning the students towards their religious preferences.

* Because it distracts students from their studies

* Because it bothers some students.


I know, I talk from experience. Being a protestant under a teacher nun.
well it bothers some students having a black teacher, but are you going to ban blacks from teaching?
Just because some of us are ignorant xenophobic f*cks doesn't mean we all should suffer.
J
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Jamie
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#84
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#84
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Students are customers and customers are always right and always the priority. Religious icons are merely optional and if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job.

And if you can elaborate how t.v. shows are distracting students from studying then i would elaborate to you how religious symbols are distracting students from learning from the teacher.
But teachers are employees and they also have rights.
"if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job."
Can you imagine the field day the press would have if ASDA announced it was no longer allowing religion amongst it's employees?
J
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Jamie
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#85
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#85
(Original post by MadNatSci)
Can you not understand why a woman would maybe prefer to be examined by a female doctor? Or a man, by a male one? Why should this not be allowed? That's daft.
he's being silly.
The point with the hospital was more of a 'don't want to have to refuse muslim women doctors because unlike muslim men they tend to have more overt symbols.
I think the point is that although (fair enough) you can refuse treatment by a sex (due to feeling uncomfortable, which is fair enough) that you people refuse treatment by a muslim/jew etc.
its just stupid.
J
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Jamie
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#86
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#86
(Original post by zizero)
If you expect your health care to be paid for by taxpayer's money, then you have to comply to certain rules. Why should the taxpayer bear extra expenses just because someone wants special treatment for solely religious reasons?
what special treatment?
really, what are these doctors getting that costs money?
God some of you people are so f*cking ignorant
and yes, this is something quite close to home for me. I'm a medic, and have friends who wear 'overt' symbols of their faith. I just hope that when we start practicing medicine that they don't come across any tw*ts like you lot.
GERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrr
J
'rant over'
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Elle
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#87
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#87
Can the European Court of Human Rights do something about this?
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Jamie
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#88
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#88
(Original post by DoctorNO)
And in every job, profession or career there are some requirements or restrictions. If you cannot abide by those then the job is not for you. Students are the priority even in public schools. Teachers are supposed to be unbiased.


being a "part" does not equate to being a requirement. There are thousands of muslimahs who dont wear hijabs. Millions of catholics who dont wear crosses.


Because it is something so obvious. Its like asking why heat warms food.

Even if you dont buy this, you cannot deny the fact that some students do complain of being distracted by a teacher's religious expressions. I am one of them. The issue here is the "what" not the "how". What religious expressions are causing and not how it is causing.
Those that don't wear hijabs do so out of choice. I doubt any of them would say that because they don't wear them, then other muslims should lose the right to.
Christs sake we're meant to live in a free country.
And, for the time being we do.
I hope the kick back in France is severe
J
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Howard
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Elle)
Can the European Court of Human Rights do something about this?
I pointed out the relevent articles of the European Convention on Human Rights about 4 hours ago.

It's simple. You go through the French courts. Assuming that avenue is exhausted at the highest level you then "take your case to Europe".
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DoctorNO
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#90
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(Original post by foolfarian)
so you think a muslim wouldn't be able to teach or be medically competent.
Please read everything I said, foolfarian. I said the hijab is optional. I said there are muslimahs who dont wear the hijab. I said "muslimahs". These are women.

Guess what that means?

It means muslim mean could teach. It means muslimahs who dont wear hijabs could teach.

(Original post by foolfarian)
your analogy bites.
Your analysis bites, mate.
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DoctorNO
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#91
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#91
(Original post by foolfarian)
well it bothers some students having a black teacher, but are you going to ban blacks from teaching?
Just because some of us are ignorant xenophobic f*cks doesn't mean we all should suffer.
The color of the skin is not optional.
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DoctorNO
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#92
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#92
(Original post by foolfarian)
But teachers are employees and they also have rights.
"if teachers wont part with them then they are better off looking for another job."
Can you imagine the field day the press would have if ASDA announced it was no longer allowing religion amongst it's employees?
J
Like I said all jobs have requirements and restrictions. Is it right for a teacher to come to work in bikini? No, because it distracts the students. Same with religious garments. Plain & simple, mate.
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DoctorNO
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#93
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(Original post by foolfarian)
Those that don't wear hijabs do so out of choice. I doubt any of them would say that because they don't wear them, then other muslims should lose the right to.
see it is merely a choice. a choice. the hijab is just a matter of choice. just like the cross. just like the bible.


(Original post by foolfarian)
Christs sake we're meant to live in a free country.
free as long as you dont violate another person's rights. and the students have the right to get what they pay for...unobstructed education.
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DoctorNO
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#94
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#94
And by taking a job you willingly give up some of your freedoms. Dont you agree, foolfarian?
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Jamie
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#95
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#95
(Original post by DoctorNO)
Like I said all jobs have requirements and restrictions. Is it right for a teacher to come to work in bikini? No, because it distracts the students. Same with religious garments. Plain & simple, mate.
A bikini is jusged indecent because it exposes large tracts of the body.
are you saying a hijab is indecent because it covers large tracts of the body (its role) or because of its association with a religion you profess to hating.
Doubtless this is a moot point.
people a damned site smarter and wiser than you will ensure this sort of thing never gains ground. in this country at least.
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Jamie
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#96
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#96
(Original post by DoctorNO)
And by taking a job you willingly give up some of your freedoms. Dont you agree, foolfarian?
No, i don't.
You signa contract to give your services in exchange for money.
You don't sign away rights.
J
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DoctorNO
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#97
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(Original post by foolfarian)
A bikini is jusged indecent because it exposes large tracts of the body.
are you saying a hijab is indecent because it covers large tracts of the body (its role) or because of its association with a religion you profess to hating.
Doubtless this is a moot point.
Then try a teacher wearing a santa clause costume. Is it proper? Is it distracting?

(Original post by foolfarian)
people a damned site smarter and wiser than you will ensure this sort of thing never gains ground. in this country at least.
never say never.
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DoctorNO
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#98
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#98
(Original post by foolfarian)
No, i don't.
You signa contract to give your services in exchange for money.
You don't sign away rights.
J
Then by all means talk all day as loud as you can at work and lets see if you dont get fired with full justification.
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Howard
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#99
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#99
(Original post by foolfarian)
No, i don't.
You signa contract to give your services in exchange for money.
You don't sign away rights.
J
Indeed you do. And when you sign a contract of employment, (even though the contract in all but the most exceptional circumstances will be silent on the matter), there is an implied term that you will be appropriatly attired in the execution of your job.

Dr.No evidently thinks that moslem garb is innapropriate because it a) brings religion into a classroom/hospital and b) because it is distracting.

a) isn't against the law. b) is subjective.
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Howard
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#100
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(Original post by DoctorNO)
Then by all means talk all day as loud as you can at work and lets see if you dont get fired with full justification.
Implied terms again.
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