The Manchester United Thread VIII

Aguero's injured now for 1-2 weeks, although I don't think it will affect City much against Sunderland.

Here's my opinion on the Vieira situation.

Firstly, it's interesting how the comments are not coming from within the squad; nothing from the players or Mancini. Instead they come from the 'Football Development Executive' who is most probably in close contact with Prince Abu Dhabi (or whatever his name is) and the board.

Secondly, it's also interesting how in the interview at the end he states that the rivalry will get "more and more".

This leads me to believe that these comments are nothing to do with mind games. What's the point in stating that United get more decisions? Whether it is true or not doesn't matter - a lot of people have that opinion.

I think Vieira has been put up to this by Prince Abu Dhabi and the board, in truth, they need Manchester United if their 'project' is going to succeed. They want City to be amoungst the big 7 (United, Liverpool, Milan, Inter, Bayern, Madrid, Barca). With the strange exception of Bayern, what links these teams? Rivalry! United-Liverpool is the biggest game in English football, Milan-Inter is the biggest game in Italian football, and Madrid-Barca, at this moment, is the biggest game in European football. Think about El Classico, the amount of TV coverage and, more importantlt to Prince Abu Dhabi, the money it generates.

Abu Dhabi knows that City don't have the history of the 7 clubs I mentioned above, so he tries to use Manchester United as some sort of piggy-back (sorry, I'm low on good metaphors) to try and elevate Manchester City into a big club. City want, they need the rivalry. Who in Europe takes City seriously at the moment? The condescending comments by Rummenigge of Bayern Muniche would suggest that people are skeptical of them. City need to be accepted as a big club, and they want it fast, Abu Dhabi et al. are too impatient to build the kind of history that Inter built after they disbanded from Milan in the early 1900s. They need United to do this.

It is all part of the business plan, Abu Dhabi wants City-United to be the next El Classico because it generates revenue and publicity for the 'project'. Hence the reason for Vieira coming out with these comments.

What they do not understand is that through United's rich history of chasing trophies they have accumulated many rivalries; Liverpool, Arsenal (very intense back in Vieira's days), Chelsea, Leeds. City have no such rivalries, maybe one with Arsenal is developing because they bought half their players, but other than that without United, City have nothing.

They can try and create a rivalry all they want - but everyone knows deep down that United will always look to Liverpool as their main rivals, no matter how badly Abu Dhabi et al. wish they had all of United's attention.

I agree with most of this post apart from one thing you mentioned, the money part. The Abu Dhabi Sheikhs do not need money, they did not buy Man City for the money and are not looking for it to generate revenue. They bought their club to publicise Abu Dhabi and the Middle East and to generate tourism within the region. They also bought it as their plaything, to try and make City a huge club. Trust me they dont need the money, spending 500m on players is just a drop in the ocean for them.

I agree with most of this post apart from one thing you mentioned, the money part. The Abu Dhabi Sheikhs do not need money, they did not buy Man City for the money and are not looking for it to generate revenue. They bought their club to publicise Abu Dhabi and the Middle East and to generate tourism within the region. They also bought it as their plaything, to try and make City a huge club. Trust me they dont need the money, spending 500m on players is just a drop in the ocean for them.

That is assuming FFP isn't implemented properly. If it is their wealth won't count for anything since beyond 2015 they won't be able to contribute in meaningful amounts. If City are to remain competitive at the top level of Europe they will need to increase revenue to compete in the transfer market and just to keep paying their wages.

Yeah i agree, doesn't seem like the Arabs cared too much about that until very recently. The only reason they need revenue is because of the FFP, they certainly dont need it for themselves. They aren't the only team who would be in trouble if FFP comes in though, alot of the bug european teams; Real Madrid, Barca etc would struggle. Interesting to see what happens in the next few years.

Contracts from 2010 are written off, so Ronaldo's, Kaka's and so forth at Madrid don't count. Even if they were Madrid and Barca won't struggle. The likes of Milan are more likely to be troubled.

Even Arsenal could be in trouble, if they spend big at any point -they're only just running above break even, and are reliant on player transfers to make a profit.

Contracts from 2010 are written off, so Ronaldo's, Kaka's and so forth at Madrid don't count. Even if they were Madrid and Barca won't struggle. The likes of Milan are more likely to be troubled.

Even Arsenal could be in trouble, if they spend big at any point -they're only just running above break even, and are reliant on player transfers to make a profit.

Yeah you're right about Madrid. Barcelona are in alot of debt so they might struggle. Arsenal are the only premier league team who wouldn't fail it at the moment, Man Utd, Chelsea, City and Liverpool are all in debt and making losses and would be likely to fail. Although United technically making profits because of their debt they actually make huge losses every year. Arsenal are unlikely to spend huge amounts, their purchase of Podolski shows this as he only cost like over 10m, he seems to be a key signing so it looks unlikely their going to spend 20m+ on anyone. Also they dont offer even close to the amount of wages that United, City or Chelsea players are on, so they should be ok.

Key word there is if - there's a reason why the most Wenger has spent on a player is £15m. It's highly unlikely we'll fall into that trap.

Key word there is if - there's a reason why the most Wenger has spent on a player is £15m. It's highly unlikely we'll fall into that trap.

Yeah you're right about Madrid. Barcelona are in alot of debt so they might struggle. Arsenal are the only premier league team who wouldn't fail it at the moment, Man Utd, Chelsea, City and Liverpool are all in debt and making losses and would be likely to fail. Although United technically making profits because of their debt they actually make huge losses every year. Arsenal are unlikely to spend huge amounts, their purchase of Podolski shows this as he only cost like over 10m, he seems to be a key signing so it looks unlikely their going to spend 20m+ on anyone. Also they dont offer even close to the amount of wages that United, City or Chelsea players are on, so they should be ok.

Arsenal are closer to failing than Utd. Utd did NOT post a loss recently - Arsenal are totally reliant on player sales to make a profit. Who are they going to sell this summer to make a profit? And then they'll weaken their squad.

Arsenal's wage bill is £120m, with less income than Utd. Our wage bill being bigger is manageable because we are successful on the pitch and off it. Our secondary DHL deal is worth more than both of Arsenal's main deals.

I defy you to actually prove that Utd would fail FFP. I know they won't, and that ergo you're talking ****, but I'll give you a chance.

Here's a quote from this article about FFP, http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2866/analysis/2011/05/11/2479628/what-is-financial-fair-play-and-how-will-uefa-enforce-it-on

Yet only Arsenal of the five highest profile Premier League clubs would comfortably meet the requirements of FFP based on recently published financial results. Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester City would all fail.

Man Utd would fail because although they posted a profit, they then used that proft to pay off their huge debts, meaning they actually made a huge loss. Also as Man Utd got knocked out of the champions league they have lost alot of potential income and this would also affect their chances of meeting FFP. Unless Man Utd can pay off all of their debt by 2015 or whenever then they could struggle.

Yeah, you posted profits recently due to player sales - is that going to happen again this summer? If you don't sell any players you'll be lucky to break even - see the summer before for proof of this. The Arsenal model in its current state is player sales reliant, and flawed for that very reason. And please note, cash in the bank doesn't matter wrt FFP.

As has been said this season. If you were to fall out of the top 4 you would easily lose more than that, £45m+ a season. I don't think with clubs like United, City, Chelsea, and Liverpool you can be confident of that long term.

I'm also pretty sure United could have an owner pay off their debt and still not fall foul of FFP. Its geared to towards successful long term running, if you can prove your club has a long term stable model you aren't penalised. You don't have to be an accountant to see as a club United are the best run in the league, its the crippling debt brought about in the purchase of the club that takes United even close to a loss, thats when we spend big.

We aren't going to finish out of the top four though, if we lost 3rd place now that would rank amongst our biggest catastrophes and it's hard to see it happening if you look at the current momentum we have.

I agree with your point about United.

I'm not talking about this season. That's why I mentioned Pool, I'm talking about long term. With the commercial revenue of those clubs and their potential for increase through match day revenue.

The point is irrelevant though because it's yet to happen and it's unlikely to happen in the first place. Arsène Wenger has been at Arsenal for 16 years this season and guided us into the CL 15 years in a row. What's the point of mentioning a situation like that when it's likely that Arsenal will get stronger, rather than weaker. The Podolski signing is wrapped up, that should tell you of Arsenal's ambition to go from being a top four club into title-contenders.

EDIT - Arsenal's commerical revenue is only going to increase too and it's currently one of the worst out of all the top European clubs. Surely that leaves Arsenal in an even stronger position.

Wenger did say in an interview that he needs to make a £15-20m profit every season to pay off the debt, so you do have a point. It's not that extreme though, the club wanted to keep Cesc and Nasri.

What makes you think that?

And you talk about Podolski as if he's currently one of the best players in the world. I'm not sure how much he'll improve Arsenal beyond what you already have personally, but I guess we'll see.