newton vs einstein ?? Watch

Robob
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Roger Kirk)
But really, before Newtons time, physics wasn't a separate subject to either maths and perhaps even philosophy.
Yes but it was is einstein's time, so it is unfair to judge him like this since it was really not possible in his time to be a world leader in both maths and physics

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(Original post by massimo)
you are comparing newtons mathematical genius with einsteins lack of mathematical genius, you dont seem to be able to grasp the fact that

newton CREATED new mathematical methods
einstein used existing methods

there is a huge difference there !!! and this in ability of you to grasp these basic concepts brings your judgement into question and i think people dont take you seriously when they see statements like that !!!.

newton was able to create "CREATE" new mathematical techniques where as einstein just used existing methods this helped newton to achieve more than einstein and contribute more than einstein to physics.

and this is how newton contributed more to physics than einstein.
Ok we could go on for ages like this, so im gonna stop arguing over this point now, agreed?
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idoit
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(Original post by rpotter)
If you look at the original post in this thread it says we are to discuss the greater physicist. Maybe if we took maths into account newton might be somehow greater overall, but since we are not discussing overall greatness, just greatness in physics. Of course you need to be good at maths to be able to do physics, but rather look at their mathematical ability and try to infer something about they ability at physics, why not just look at they're ability at physics.
Maths and physics areare so closley related as to be inseprable at points, Newton was the author of the core matehmatical technique in physics.

You say that newton's mathematical ideas allowed him to go further than einstein. Maybe not, have you seen the equations of general relativity, they are extremely complicated, and far more complex than newton's. Im sorry but einstein went further into physics than newton, he realised that newton's laws were only an approximation to reality, and came up with new laws that have provent to be extremely accurate.
The field equations: G_ab = 8pi*T_ab

are the equations of relativity, they relate the physical (T_ab) to the geometric (G_ab), as you can see they are infact very simple (not to say that actually solving them is nigh on impossible for all but a limited set of circumstances, but the same is true for Newton's equations too). If we're to measure greatness purely by complexity of theories neither Eistein nor Newton would have anything on modern phycists.

Of course Einstein went further into physics than Newton, he was around 250 years after Newton, if did not improve on the work of Newton he would be completly anonymous. You must remembr general relativity also should only be an approximation of reality.

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(Original post by rpotter)
Yes but it was is einstein's time, so it is unfair to judge him like this since it was really not possible in his time to be a world leader in both maths and physics
Not true, look at Einstein's contemporaires: Von Neumann, Goedel, Dirac, Wigner, etc.
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massimo
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#43
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good post buddy
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RK
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#44
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(Original post by rpotter)
Yes but it was is einstein's time, so it is unfair to judge him like this since it was really not possible in his time to be a world leader in both maths and physics
My whole post wasn't to say how much of a world leader in both maths and physic Newton was but to say how without Newtons work there would not hav been so many people in physics when it came to Einsteins time.

Newtons work allowed the extra physicists by Einsteins time and hence meant that Einsteins work could have been cover by a whole host of other physicists in the years after Einstein made his discoveries if h hadn't made them himself.
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wacabac
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#45
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Einstein- for that shot of him sticking his tongue out.
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digitalparadox
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#46
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Newton - he seems like the einstein of his time!
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Robob
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#47
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(Original post by Roger Kirk)
My whole post wasn't to say how much of a world leader in both maths and physic Newton was but to say how without Newtons work there would not hav been so many people in physics when it came to Einsteins time.

Newtons work allowed the extra physicists by Einsteins time and hence meant that Einsteins work could have been cover by a whole host of other physicists in the years after Einstein made his discoveries if h hadn't made them himself.
Okies fair enough, but had there been more physicists around in newton's time (although modern physics hadn't really been invented, so scientists working in that area) would one of them have come up with newton's theories instead?

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(Original post by digitalparadox)
Newton - he seems like the einstein of his time!
lol
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RK
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(Original post by rpotter)
Okies fair enough, but had there been more physicists around in newton's time (although modern physics hadn't really been invented, so scientists working in that area) would one of them have come up with newton's theories instead?
I'd say the chances of someone else coming up with Newtons ideas around the same time as him (if there were more people doing similar work as him) would be very unlikely compared to a similar situation in Einstein's time.

But that is just my opinion based on my idea that Newtons work was more revolutionary or its time.
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Robob
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(Original post by Roger Kirk)
But that is just my opinion based on my idea that Newtons work was more revolutionary or its time.
ALthough I always thought einstein's general relativity was more revolutionary and hence many scientists didnt accept it for a long time, and that was the main reason he did not win the nobel physics prize for it
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RK
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#50
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(Original post by rpotter)
ALthough I always thought einstein's general relativity was more revolutionary and hence many scientists didnt accept it for a long time, and that was the main reason he did not win the nobel physics prize for it
I've already said earlier in the thread that I accept Einsteins work as rvolutionary, just less so than Newtons work.

You have to remmber there were many more people around at the tim of Einstein in a position to question his work, and I don't really think a lack of people immediately willing to accept something or not is a good judge of how revolutionary something is.
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Apprentice
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#51
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Einstein, obviously!
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RK
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#52
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(Original post by Apprentice)
Einstein, obviously!
Why?

I just want to know your reasoning. It' not obvious to me....it should be obvious that is the case judging by any of my posts in this thread regarding my support on Newton in this thread
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massimo
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#53
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Why?

I just want to know your reasoning. It' not obvious to me....it should be obvious that is the case judging by any of my posts in this thread regarding my support on Newton in this thread
i agree people only state einstein because they want to sound kool where as newtons mathematical physics compared with einsteins mathematical physics newton wins hands down !! but people from the outside all they hear is einstein and they are brain washed into thinking that einstein contributed more than newton.
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screenager
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I picked Einstein, he seems like a nicer guy than Newton. I think if Einstein was around in Newton's time he would have been able to come up with the same stuff Newton came up with but I don't think Newton could have done what Einstein did, Newton seemed more like a general problem solving guy and didn't really focus too much on one thing but Einstein just came along and was like "wow, numbers" and everyone was happy because he fixed things that confused lots of people. Also Isaac Newton wasn't very nice and I hear he may have stolen the whole calculus thing from some German guy which wasn't very nice of him and he was in Charge of the Royal mint and had the smart idea of putting the ridges on the edges of coins so people could scrape of bits of money and make more money out of the scrapings. He also executed people which is something Einstein didn't do.
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massimo
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#55
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i think thats the whole point exactly einsteins contribution is very little other than something that newton did most of it himself anyway einstein jus put it all together if newton was allowed to live longer he would have come to the same conclusion just centuries earlier.

He also executed people which is something Einstein didn't do
instead einstein just urged the president to make a nuclear bomb and kill millions from the blast an radiation fall out.
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screenager
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(Original post by massimo)
instead einstein just urged the president to make a nuclear bomb and kill millions from the blast an radiation fall out.
Yes but Isaac Newton ordered the execution of people because they were doing crazy things with money, Einstein thought the nuclear bomb would end the war which it did and it probably saved more lives than it destroyed. Einstein also regreted the nuclear bomb thing but Newton was always happy to order someone's execution.
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massimo
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#57
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Yes but Isaac Newton ordered the execution of people because they were doing crazy things with money, Einstein thought the nuclear bomb would end the war which it did and it probably saved more lives than it destroyed. Einstein also regreted the nuclear bomb thing but Newton was always happy to order someone's execution
your attempts to justify einsteins huge desire to develope nuclear bombs is extemely poor and ultimately einsteins urge for nuclear weapons has nearly destroyed the world and caused millions of deaths
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screenager
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I am not arguing about whether Einstein and his bombs was a good thing, I am arguing that even though Einstein caused more deaths I still think he was a better person than Newton because Einstein wasn't just out to kill everyone with the nuclear bomb, this link is to the letter he sent to Roosevelt.
http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/einstein.shtml
"I understand that Germany has actually stopped the sale of uranium from the Czechoslovakian mines which she has taken over. That she should have taken such early action might perhaps be understood on the ground that the son of the German Under-Secretary of State, von Weizsäcker, is attached to the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institut in Berlin where some of the American work on uranium is now being repeated."
He is advising Roosevelt to develope nuclear weapons because they would help them win the war which would have been a good thing in case you have forgotten and he is also sending the letter because the Germans were also starting to develope nuclear weapons so the Americans making them first is obviously what anybody on their side would have wanted.
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Robob
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(Original post by massimo)
your attempts to justify einsteins huge desire to develope nuclear bombs is extemely poor and ultimately einsteins urge for nuclear weapons has nearly destroyed the world and caused millions of deaths
Einstein was persuaded into it by a friend and was extremely reluctant to sign the letter in the end. He did not have a 'huge urge' for nuclear weapons. If you were in his shoes, what decision would you have made?
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dimexi
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#60
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I'm not taking part in the arguement.. but for me.. It's definately Issac Newton; though he was a nasty man; I have GREAT respect for his work...
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