First Class Honours degrees

Dynamic_1

http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article331069.ece

Your most likely to get a 1st class honours degree from

Imperial College 25%

Oxford 23%

Cambridge 22%

Warwick 20%

London School of Economics 19%

This is quite interesting, it is clear Imperial specialises in Science and Technology so it should be at the top end, but I would'nt have expected it to top the table. Imperial's workload tends to be covered in the first two terms, so it really must be challenge attaining a 1st class honours at Imperial?

Students at all the unis in Britain are marked by the same standard, and seeing that only the top students get in the schools you mentioned, it only makes sense that those schools would hand out the most firsts.

Reply 2

yusufu

16

Bismarck

Students at all the unis in Britain are marked by the same standard, and seeing that only the top students get in the schools you mentioned, it only makes sense that those schools would hand out the most firsts.

really? so a first from bournemouth uni is the same standard as a first from cambridge? :eek:

Reply 3

Undry1

really? so a first from bournemouth uni is the same standard as a first from cambridge? :eek:

Each school has to send a certain portion of its exams to external auditors, who presumably can't discriminate against Oxford students merely because they go to Oxford.

Reply 4

Bismarck

Each school has to send a certain portion of its exams to external auditors, who presumably can't discriminate against Oxford students merely because they go to Oxford.

Not quite... the degree content from say Maths at Cambridge is quite different from Maths at Random ex-Poly.

Imperial does well, perhaps, for a couple reasons:

1) longer degrees on average mean there's a greater opportunity to 'kick 'em out' before having to give a 'bad degree'

2) Science based (you can get 100% in maths if you really know the question, but you almost certainly won't get 100% in an essay title from any subject) - therefore greater variation.

Reply 5

matt4504

2

Yeah i'm fooked then :|

Reply 6

President_Ben

2) Science based (you can get 100% in maths if you really know the question, but you almost certainly won't get 100% in an essay title from any subject) - therefore greater variation.

I'm certainly not a hard science expert, but as far as I know, these types of questions end after the first year. Even math is more complex than providing correct or wrong answers after you get to a certain point.

Reply 7

Bismarck

Students at all the unis in Britain are marked by the same standard

If only this were true...

I have friends with 1st class degrees who failed modules (and from 'decent' universities...). If I had failed a module, I wouldn't have a degree at all....

Reply 8

AT82

It depends what a failed module is though, if one gets 75% in all modules but gets 38% in one, then its clearly due to a medical problem or some genuine reason. It really does depend on the circumstances behind the failed module. Obviously if there was a few failed modules there is somthing very wrong.

Reply 9

Well one actually failed 2 - without reason... and at a UoL university...

Reply 10

Fluffy

Well one actually failed 2 - without reason... and at a UoL university...

UoL has a rather weird degree awarding system where it can depend on:

1) A percentage of modules reaching a degree classification
2) Average mark across all modules
3) A combination of the two following some formula

Note: this works in reverse too, if you don't pass enough modules, even if the rest are all first class, you fail.

Medicine is rather unique since you do need to pass everything.

Mathematics and many sciences beyond the first year still has some 'hard and fast, right or wrong' questions in there which are 'short answer'. Granted, you don't get the whole paper like that... but every bits increases the variation in degrees which pushes people to more extreme marks. You probably get above average fails at Imperial and the above average firsts...

While say Philosophy is for example 'pick an essay title, do it'.

(that is how it can be at UCL)

Reply 11

Fluffy

If only this were true...

I have friends with 1st class degrees who failed modules (and from 'decent' universities...). If I had failed a module, I wouldn't have a degree at all....

The grading is uni-neutral; how the unis weigh the grades is obviously up to them.

Reply 12

Bismarck

The grading is uni-neutral; how the unis weigh the grades is obviously up to them.

Exactly my point!!!

--------------

President_Ben

UoL has a rather weird degree awarding system where it can depend on:

1) A percentage of modules reaching a degree classification
2) Average mark across all modules
3) A combination of the two following some formula

Note: this works in reverse too, if you don't pass enough modules, even if the rest are all first class, you fail.

Medicine is rather unique since you do need to pass everything.

Mathematics and many sciences beyond the first year still has some 'hard and fast, right or wrong' questions in there which are 'short answer'. Granted, you don't get the whole paper like that... but every bits increases the variation in degrees which pushes people to more extreme marks. You probably get above average fails at Imperial and the above average firsts...

While say Philosophy is for example 'pick an essay title, do it'.

(that is how it can be at UCL)

I'm not talking about medicine - I'm talking about regular run of the mill BSc degrees...

Reply 13

President_Ben

Mathematics and many sciences beyond the first year still has some 'hard and fast, right or wrong' questions in there which are 'short answer'. Granted, you don't get the whole paper like that... but every bits increases the variation in degrees which pushes people to more extreme marks. You probably get above average fails at Imperial and the above average firsts...

While say Philosophy is for example 'pick an essay title, do it'.

(that is how it can be at UCL)

From what I see in math and stats-related classes at postgrad level, coming up with the right answer is not going to get you more than a fifth of the total score.

--------------

Fluffy

Exactly my point!!!

So the problem isn't that it's easier to get a First in any given class at a top school, but rather that some schools weigh grades in a subjective manner. I doubt the latter is a problem that only afflicts the top unis though. I don't understand why the unis don't just give the exact same weight to each class as is the case in the US.

Reply 14

Well, uni's have total freedom to do what the hell they want.

For example, some unis only give a set amount of 1sts per subject, regardless of how well you do - I have a 75% 2i (so I always send my full degree transcript with any application/CV I send off). I git my degree in the days pre-fees etc, and in todays climate, having paid something towards my education, I would have definitely mounted a legal challenge (and indeed 'educational law' is the biggest boom area at the moment - even outstripping medicolegal!)

Uni qualifications are just not standardised across the board. It's crazy to say that they are...

Reply 15

Bismarck

From what I see in math and stats-related classes at postgrad level, coming up with the right answer is not going to get you more than a fifth of the total score.

In fairness, postgrad level is a different world to undergrad.

We know little. You know something and it is the PhD types who actually seek the truth :wink:

The 'right answer' may only get 20% - but that is 20% more than in arts.

In an essay, you can vaguely waffle your way to something - at least say 5%... :smile:

in maths, you get 0. At undergrad level, you might be able to waffle to 20%, but with maths, still 0.

Reply 16

President_Ben

In fairness, postgrad level is a different world to undergrad.

We know little. You know something and it is the PhD types who actually seek the truth :wink:

The 'right answer' may only get 20% - but that is 20% more than in arts.

In an essay, you can vaguely waffle your way to something - at least say 5%... :smile:

in maths, you get 0. At undergrad level, you might be able to waffle to 20%, but with maths, still 0.

Using common sense should get you at least 20% in liberal arts classes; likewise, getting the wrong answer on a math/stats question will not lead to you losing all 20% from personal experience in the US.

Reply 17

Bismarck

Using common sense should get you at least 20% in liberal arts classes;

Well, you'd have to apply a little knowledge gleamed out of somewhere :smile:

likewise, getting the wrong answer on a math/stats question will not lead to you losing all 20% from personal experience in the US.

If the question is "Solve the problem" and you literally can not solve it (say you forget what it means to transpose a matrix for example) - you just get 0. You can't write anything that has any relation to the problem.

If you find the inverse instead, you just don't understand what is going on at all - hence, zero.

Reply 18

President_Ben

If the question is "Solve the problem" and you literally can not solve it (say you forget what it means to transpose a matrix for example) - you just get 0. You can't write anything that has any relation to the problem.

If you find the inverse instead, you just don't understand what is going on at all - hence, zero.

If solving the problem requires five steps, getting one step incorrect (and thus getting the wrong answer) will usually not lose you all credit. Unless we're talking about multiple-choice problems or ones that require only one step to solve, there's always room for partial credit. Furthermore, if the question is to come up with some conclusion based on the answer, getting the wrong answer will not necessarily lose you all credit as long as the conclusion you come up with can be logically derived from the answer you got.

Reply 19