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yawn1
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#241
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#241
Quality of life? Who can make a valid judgement on whether the life of another has quality for them? That opinion can only be based on the experience of the person making the judgement - 'Unless you have walked in my shoes how do you know how it feels'?

We had five children with Down's Syndrome at my main stream school. Without exception all of them were loving, giving and fully immersed in the school culture. Three of them were exceptionally musical and contributed greatly to the school orchestra and choir. They were loved by all who came into contact with them, but most of all, loved by their parents who were as proud of them as any other of their children. The school community was devastated when one of these very precious human beings passed away from a chest infection but we all joined in a 'celebration of her short life' as an acknowledgement of her contribution to society.

Don't pontificate to me about "quality of life". This phrase is used as a cop-out to relinquish responsibility for those who are more vulnerable among us. We are each morally responsible for others who need our help.

There will always be people like 'your aunty' who selflessly devote themselves to needy people and I thank God for them.

We need to reorder society so that every person witin it is seen as precious, sacred and valuable.

End of story!!
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Howard
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#242
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#242
(Original post by Speciez99)
Howard do u see any circumstances where abortion is not morally correct?
If a woman for whatever reason decides she doesn't want to have the child that is growing inside her then I think that should be her choice and nobody else's. Period
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PQ
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#243
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#243
(Original post by Speciez99)
would you want a child if u knew you were gonna have to leave your job to look after it, it would probably live to an age of 30 if lucky, be supsepitable to dieases, require constant care and it was a result of a bad mix of genes which meant that if you were to have a 2nd child the child wouldnt have their problems in their life
Knowing for certain about a disability would affect my decision on abortion to the same extent as knowing about all the possible, undetected disabilities in a child.

ie - not at all.

Any child is a huge responsibility, I question the perspective of people who abort a disabled child based on the fact that it *might* involve slightly more responsibility.

But at the same time people have the right to decide whether they can deal with the responsibility of a child. I have more respect for someone who aborts because they're not ready for a child than for someone who aborts because they believe that their child might be in some way disabled (when lets face it all children face the possibility of being disabled, it's just that some things we can predict (spina bifida) and others we can't (CP due to problems during labour)).
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hitchhiker_13
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#244
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#244
(Original post by Howard)
No. You are the fool here Joey. To say that DS sufferers enjoy the same quality of life as non sufferers, to say they contribute as much to society as non-sufferers is PC ******** and you know it as well as I do.

For Christ's sake, most of these people need full time adult care.

Do you think if you asked DS sufferers if they wished they'd never been born, would the majority say yes?
P.S. This is an actual question, not rhetorical. I don't think they would, but it is possible I am wrong.
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Jamie
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#245
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#245
(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
Do you think if you asked DS sufferers if they wished they'd never been born, would the majority say yes?
P.S. This is an actual question, not rhetorical. I don't think they would, but it is possible I am wrong.
Poorer quality of life doesn't mean abject misery.
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Little Britain
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#246
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#246
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Knowing for certain about a disability would affect my decision on abortion to the same extent as knowing about all the possible, undetected disabilities in a child.

ie - not at all.

Any child is a huge responsibility, I question the perspective of people who abort a disabled child based on the fact that it *might* involve slightly more responsibility.

But at the same time people have the right to decide whether they can deal with the responsibility of a child. I have more respect for someone who aborts because they're not ready for a child than for someone who aborts because they believe that their child might be in some way disabled (when lets face it all children face the possibility of being disabled, it's just that some things we can predict (spina bifida) and others we can't (CP due to problems during labour)).
How many of you are parents? I have a heathly child and a husband and having a child is sill hard work is a financial drain, you can't just "go out" either. However, my son is funny, clever and gives me endless joy. Had I been in a different situation, I might have considered an abortion. Children have a right to the best parenting you can give, anthing else and you shouldn't even contemplate having children.

Having children changes your life forever, and I can't stand people who pontificate when they have never been in a situation themselves but I am against abortion as a method of birth control, that's just irresponsible.

Disability is another issue. Did anyone see the documentary about the bloke who's skin fell off? It was extremely humbling, even his mother said that she would have had an abortion if she had known the pain her son would go through.
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LH
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#247
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#247
(Original post by Howard)
If a woman for whatever reason decides she doesn't want to have the child that is growing inside her then I think that should be her choice and nobody else's. Period
She wouldn't have a period if she was pregnant.

Ahhhhh Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh ahahhaha.
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Amb1
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#248
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#248
(Original post by Little Britain)
Having children changes your life forever...
Having an abortion also changes your life forever. Maybe not your lifestyle, but definitely your life.
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littleone
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#249
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#249
i think that a woman should be given the choice, i mean, having an unwanted baby come into the world with a sense of regret would be really sad. surely, this would have some sort of pyschological effect on the child. at the same time, abortion really does depend on the individuals situation, not all pregnancies are planned, and having an unwanted child at a realy young age would a have a negative effect on the mother. i also agree, that abortion should, howver, not be so readily available, given, that at request, a docter wouldnt tell the parents of someone under the age of 16's parents.
its not an ideal world though
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littleone
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#250
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#250
(Original post by Amb1)
Having an abortion also changes your life forever. Maybe not your lifestyle, but definitely your life.
i see what you mean, an abortion would leave the mother to be with a sense of guilt in having killed their own child. although in cases where the child would be severly ill and lead a life of pain may make the situation different
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Emma18
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#251
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#251
I am so impressed with the majority of the responses on here!!!! (I dont mean to sound like a primary school teacher!!!!) Im so used to the people aound me (friends, not family) being anti abortion or 'pro life' (sarcastic inverted commas!!), and me being the only one for it!
more specifically i'm completely for it being the womens choice, regardless of the circumstances, im aware that there are people who think that some women use abortion casually, as though its just a method of birth control, personally i cant believe it, for one thing, its a pretty serious operation! but if that is that womens feeling, there is no way she could be considered psycologically capable of looking after a baby.
a question for all the pro-lifers out there, what do you think should be done with all the neglected nd unwanted children we have now? let alone all those that would be born if all abortions stopped?? (not that they would, you'd just end up with dangerous backstreet abortion clinics bu anyway)
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Josh75077
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#252
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#252
(Original post by Emma18)
I am so impressed with the majority of the responses on here!!!! (I dont mean to sound like a primary school teacher!!!!) Im so used to the people aound me (friends, not family) being anti abortion or 'pro life' (sarcastic inverted commas!!), and me being the only one for it!
more specifically i'm completely for it being the womens choice, regardless of the circumstances, im aware that there are people who think that some women use abortion casually, as though its just a method of birth control, personally i cant believe it, for one thing, its a pretty serious operation! but if that is that womens feeling, there is no way she could be considered psycologically capable of looking after a baby.
a question for all the pro-lifers out there, what do you think should be done with all the neglected nd unwanted children we have now? let alone all those that would be born if all abortions stopped?? (not that they would, you'd just end up with dangerous backstreet abortion clinics bu anyway)
Unwanted Children, valid point, but isnt this removing the issue of responsibility?
I have been to talks by doctors on the rate a unborn baby develops it resembles a human quite quickly. When does it have rights. Why is termination legal for the unborn human and not post born human?
Morality, science or religion dont matter, people dont wanna be responsible, they dont want to be accountable. Don't want to deal with it. Thats life today its how a large proportion of society views whatever they do not wanna be bothered with from the trivial to the serious, I see it in my classmates at school all the time. No responsibility makes life so much easier.
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material breach
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#253
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#253
wow i remeber making this thread ages ago!
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Howard
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#254
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(Original post by calumc)
Oh dear, another abortion thread. I'll try not to get involved in this one.

Quick question for all you pro-abortion people - Does it not scare you to think that had they been more available then, your own mother might have taken the same attitude as you and had an abortion? If not yourself, what about your partner or a good friend? Does it not bother you to think that a careless attitude like this could have cost them their lives before they ever begun?
Well, how would I have even known about it?
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material breach
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#255
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#255
(Original post by calumc)
You wouldn't. You'd never have been born. Personally I find that rather disturbing to think about.
exactly so you dont need to worry about it.
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]{ingnik
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#256
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if you consider human nature, we are repulsed at the idea of killing another human. but we can cope with removing an unborn foetus. so if human nature is to be taken as a guide as to what is morally right and wrong then abortion is alright.
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Howard
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#257
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#257
(Original post by Speciez99)
exactly so you dont need to worry about it.
That's my point! If I wasn't actually born why would I give a toss about anything anyway?
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Howard
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#258
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[QUOTE=']{ingnik']if you consider human nature, we are repulsed at the idea of killing another human. QUOTE]

Speak for yourself.
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material breach
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#259
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#259
(Original post by Howard)
That's my point! If I wasn't actually born why would I give a toss about anything anyway?
hehe my thread
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Egan1
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#260
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#260
(Original post by calumc)
You wouldn't. You'd never have been born. Personally I find that rather disturbing to think about.
Doesn't bother me at all. As people have said, if you hadn't been born/developed you wouldn't exist and therefor wouldn't know anything to be disturbed about.
-Surely it's the same thought as if your parents hadn't happened to get together at that time and conceived you. It's (normally) a matter of chance.
I know I was an accident. My parents had already had two children and intended to leave it at that but things worked out differently. It doesn't bother me at all. They're very glad they had me, but at the same time there's no reason their lives would've been any less enjoyable or fulfilling had I not been born.
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