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sashh
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#261
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#261
(Original post by kita)
I dont agree with them, because to be honest, unless under exceptional circumstances, if girls are stupid enough to get themselves pregnant, they should do what any responsible person (assume they are responsible if they feel they are ready to have sex) should do and PAY THE CONSEQUENCE. ie keep the baby and raise it. The baby has done nothing wrong and deserves life. Yes, i know, im not in that position, and as someone else sed i may possibly feel different if i were to be in that position, but i feel im responsible enough to have sex, therefore you should be respnsible enough to use contraception. I also feel the fathers should be shamed upon, because the girl very often gets 90% of the blame, and is severely shamed upon.
Read the threads about accidental pregnancy. Contraception doen't always work.
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Nicci_babe
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#262
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#262
I agree with abortion i feel it is better for the child not to be born than to be born un wanted. 2 of my friends have had abortions and i can tell you it wasnt an easy decision one of thm felt so guilty she couldnt look at babies for months but she knew she couldnt cope with a child she was almost 17 but just about to start college and she couldnt support it. i feel that we should allow abortion because if there were less unwanted children there could possibly (and only possible) be less child cruelty.
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yawn1
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#263
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#263
(Original post by Nicci_babe)
I agree with abortion i feel it is better for the child not to be born than to be born un wanted. 2 of my friends have had abortions and i can tell you it wasnt an easy decision one of thm felt so guilty she couldnt look at babies for months but she knew she couldnt cope with a child she was almost 17 but just about to start college and she couldnt support it. i feel that we should allow abortion because if there were less unwanted children there could possibly (and only possible) be less child cruelty.
Adoption agencies are 'crying out' for babies for their waiting adoptive parents. There are no unwanted babies.
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Nicci_babe
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#264
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#264
(Original post by yawn1)
Adoption agencies are 'crying out' for babies for their waiting adoptive parents. There are no unwanted babies.
yeah but that still invovles a women carring a child for 9 months and going through labour for a child o learn that it was adopted and wasnt wanted. i do see your point but there are unwanted babies, you cant be blind to that just because adoption agancies want them doesnt mean that magically all babies are wanted. they maybe wanted by the agency but if that baby is not adopted them it will live in a family that does not want it!
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yawn1
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#265
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#265
(Original post by Nicci_babe)
yeah but that still invovles a women carring a child for 9 months and going through labour for a child o learn that it was adopted and wasnt wanted. i do see your point but there are unwanted babies, you cant be blind to that just because adoption agancies want them doesnt mean that magically all babies are wanted. they maybe wanted by the agency but if that baby is not adopted them it will live in a family that does not want it!
I am assuming that the child is unwanted by the mother. If this is the case then the child can be put up for adoption. I cannot see that any child who is offered for adoption would not be adopted.

For heaven's sake, we have people in this country who will resort to desperate measures to become adoptive parents - even going to third world countries to adopt. Their love is unconditional - they do not mind what sex, age, cultural background and health status of the child is.

If we weigh up the position of the reluctant mother carrying a child for nine months with the child being aborted I believe the child has preference.
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Golden Maverick
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#266
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#266
Would you agree with the Irish Catholic Church's stance a few years ago when it refused to allow a 14 year old girl who had been raped to go to England to have an abortion?
It is right in this case not to allow abortion?
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yawn1
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#267
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#267
(Original post by Golden Maverick)
Would you agree with the Irish Catholic Church's stance a few years ago when it refused to allow a 14 year old girl who had been raped to go to England to have an abortion?
It is right in this case not to allow abortion?
Personally speaking, as I don't know for sure who you are asking this question of - yes, I would agree with the Irish government's (it was not the Church as they cannot legislate) -
refusal to countenance an abortion for this girl. Obviously they could not prevent her coming to England for an abortion as there are no passport requirements for travel between the two countries, but as she was not of an age to consent to an anaesthetic then whoever signed the consent form would have been breaking the law of that country and be subjected to whatever punishment that offence would merit.
It was not considered a life or death situation where the physical health of the mother was paramount over the life of the child.
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sashh
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#268
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#268
[QUOTE=yawn1]I am assuming that the child is unwanted by the mother. If this is the case then the child can be put up for adoption. I cannot see that any child who is offered for adoption would not be adopted.

[QUOTE]

Er so why are there so many kids in care? Any social worker will tell you that a white healthy baby will be adopted but not all babies are white and healthy. Why do you assume adoption is not traumatic?

[QUOTE=yawn1]It was not considered a life or death situation where the physical health of the mother was paramount over the life of the child.[QUOTE]

A fourteen year old IS a child. Why do you want a child who has been sexually abused to suffer more by being forced to give birth? Can you imagine being raped? Then can you imagine spending the next 9 months having intimate examinations? In effect having part of a rapist inside you for nine months?

Then if the child is adopted, 20 years later he/she knocks on the door and says "hi mum".

Sorry in this case continuing the pregnancy would have been child abuse. As I've said before I cannot believe how callous the 'pro life' people on here are. You all seem to care more about potential life than actual life. Real people who actually exist. You also all seem to think that unwanted pregnancy is something that should be punished. Why?
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drago di giada
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#269
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#269
Abortion has been a world-wide source of dispute for years.. DUH? But here in the states the measures are finally being taken to STOP abortion. You are probably thinking at this moment that I am pro-life. You are wrong. I am pro-choice.
If the mother really does not wish to have the child that she is carrying.. for whatever reason, rape, incest.. (YES incest.. Still going on here.. and obviously in alot of other countries, but I believe, here.. I may be wrong but I think it is outlawed in a few of the states because of the more.. obvious reasons.. MENTAL ******ATION! Any child.. if found to be mentally ******ed for this reason, should not have to suffer through life.) then she has the right to choose to end the life of her child.
THEN you have the argument that it is a human being.. and no human has the right to take the life of anothe raway. News flash.. it is not a human YET! It is merely.. heh.. a zygote.. it does not breathe, and it does not eat the way a HUMAN would eat. It is merely the BEGINING of life, but it is not life itself.
I believe that this is in the same category as Gay or Same Sex marriages, whatever is done behind the privacy of a closed door is the business of the people inside that room.. and ONLY them. We as human beings have absolutely no reason.. or RIGHT for that matter to pry into the privacy of others. Because.. basic human right there.. THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY.
What a woman does behind the PRIVACY of her own door is for her and her alone.
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Golden Maverick
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#270
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#270
Yawn1:

(Original post by http://www.ifpa.ie/)
- 1992 (Feb) | The X Case
Costello J. granted an injunction in the High Court preventing a pregnant 14-year-old rape victim from leaving Ireland to have an abortion in England. Amid public outcry, the Supreme Court overturned his decision two weeks later to allow her to go, ruling that "if it is established . . . that there is a real and substantial risk to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother, which can only be avoided by the termination of her pregnancy, such termination is permissible."

Here, the Court held that there was a real and substantial risk of suicide if the pregnancy continued; thus the termination was permissible, even in Ireland. However, where no such risk existed, both information and possibly travel could be prevented in the interest of safeguarding the right to life of the 'unborn'. The Government then entered a Declaration to the Protocol, saying that they would not use it to restrict travel or information.
It was indeed the govenment who brought the case, and I have since found (above) that a later injunction did allow the abortion because the girl was suicidal (and due to the public outcry). She was in fact in England when her parents notified the Irish authorities of the rape and they ordered them to return to Ireland as the authroities passed a 9 month travel injunction.
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drago di giada
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#271
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#271
(Original post by calumc)
So, it'd be okay for her to kill her husband aswell, as long as she did it in private?
wait wait wait.. why would she want to kill her husband? no no no.. that is a crime. Abortion is not a crime YET. although if the friggin extremists....who go around and put pamphlets on your vehicle while you're sitting at an intersection in Niagara Falls, or while you're in Media Play.. get their way.. it will be. Like I said.. I am pro-choice. It is none of our business if a woman wishes to destroy a child. It is her decision, and it is she who would have to live with the pain of it for the rest of her life.. NOT OURS!
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Howard
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#272
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#272
(Original post by drago di giada)
wait wait wait.. why would she want to kill her husband? no no no.. that is a crime. Abortion is not a crime YET. although if the friggin extremists....who go around and put pamphlets on your vehicle while you're sitting at an intersection in Niagara Falls, or while you're in Media Play.. get their way.. it will be. Like I said.. I am pro-choice. It is none of our business if a woman wishes to destroy a child. It is her decision, and it is she who would have to live with the pain of it for the rest of her life.. NOT OURS!
I think you mean "if George Bush gets his way it will be"
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drago di giada
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#273
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#273
(Original post by Howard)
I think you mean "if George Bush gets his way it will be"
Never said it wasn't GB.. lol, you're still reeling from that other subj..
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Howard
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#274
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#274
(Original post by drago di giada)
Never said it wasn't GB.. lol, you're still reeling from that other subj..
Yes. Your combined massive intellect of you are your little friends really has me on a back foot. :rolleyes:
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drago di giada
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#275
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#275
(Original post by calumc)
It's none of her business if she chooses to destroy her child, but if she does the same to her husband, it's a crime? Why the difference? Surely it should be even worse to kill the child, since it is totally defenceless and has never even lived a day?
ZYGOTE.. ZYGOTE.. its not living yet! It hasn't lived yet. I guess it all depends on your definition of LIFE.. does it breathe? no.. how does it eat? through blood! THAT is not a human. That is an animal.. A man.. particularly her husband.. is bound to her through God.. while this soon to be infant.. inside her.. is bound too.. it has not breathed the breath of life yet.. so therefore.. it is not living.
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yawn1
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#276
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#276
(Original post by drago di giada)
ZYGOTE.. ZYGOTE.. its not living yet! It hasn't lived yet. I guess it all depends on your definition of LIFE.. does it breathe? no.. how does it eat? through blood! THAT is not a human. That is an animal.. A man.. particularly her husband.. is bound to her through God.. while this soon to be infant.. inside her.. is bound too.. it has not breathed the breath of life yet.. so therefore.. it is not living.
Scientists use words to explain the period of gestation of the child and zygote is just such a word - anything that is capable of cell reproduction is life.

I cannot understand how you can say that the child in the uterus is an animal! Do you believe in the soul? When do you believe that the soul exists? In philosophical terms the soul exists when the being exists so it follows that the soul is inculcated as soon as the being is formed, i.e. at the moment of conception.
You say a man is bound to his wife through God - can you then extrapolate the product of their union from God?
Look deeper than the propaganda you are been fed please and consider what you are saying.
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drago di giada
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#277
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#277
(Original post by yawn1)
Scientists use words to explain the period of gestation of the child and zygote is just such a word - anything that is capable of cell reproduction is life.

I cannot understand how you can say that the child in the uterus is an animal! Do you believe in the soul? When do you believe that the soul exists? In philosophical terms the soul exists when the being exists so it follows that the soul is inculcated as soon as the being is formed, i.e. at the moment of conception.
You say a man is bound to his wife through God - can you then extrapolate the product of their union from God?
Look deeper than the propaganda you are been fed please and consider what you are saying.
I get what you are saying, but I still believe that the woman has the right to choose. A child that goes into foster care.. because his or her mother did not want him.. that would scar a child. If the mother decides she wants to abort the pregnancy then so be it.. it is her decision. Let her make it. If she so chooses then let her.. She is the one that would have to live with that guilt, is she not?
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drago di giada
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#278
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#278
(Original post by calumc)
It is living. If it wasnt living, how could it divide and eventually become a human? It doesn't just go from zygote to baby in a puff of magic blue smoke you know. The zygote is living, and divides just as the cells in your body do for you to grow and to replace each other. Just because it begins smaller doesn't make it any less living than you.
I understand this.. all I am saying is that it is the mothers decision to abort a pregnancy. It is her right... or atleast at the moment it is. If she chooses to do so then let her.
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yawn1
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#279
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#279
(Original post by drago di giada)
I get what you are saying, but I still believe that the woman has the right to choose. A child that goes into foster care.. because his or her mother did not want him.. that would scar a child. If the mother decides she wants to abort the pregnancy then so be it.. it is her decision. Let her make it. If she so chooses then let her.. She is the one that would have to live with that guilt, is she not?
You are clutching at straws!
You are saying a mother may put her child into care because she does not want him - she may or she may not. Who is to say that if a woman is encouraged to continue with the pregnancy she MAY love that child at first sight. Even if she doesn't she can have the child adopted. I can't see a difference between losing a child through abortion or through adoption. It is a loss whatever happens.
One thing is sure though, if she has an abortion that child will die!
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drago di giada
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#280
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#280
(Original post by yawn1)
You are clutching at straws!
You are saying a mother may put her child into care because she does not want him - she may or she may not. Who is to say that if a woman is encouraged to continue with the pregnancy she MAY love that child at first sight. Even if she doesn't she can have the child adopted. I can't see a difference between losing a child through abortion or through adoption. It is a loss whatever happens.
One thing is sure though, if she has an abortion that child will die!
Do you have any idea how it feels to be adopted? I bet not. I live in a small town in Western New York, most of my friends have been adopted.. There is only one thing that is stopping them from ending their own lives because of the pain that the knowledge of being given up.. Do you wish to know what that is? It is me. I work in my schools guidance office during my free period so that anyone that wishes to talk to a person their own age can come in and speak with me. Do you know how much it hurts me to see them all leave in tears, and not knowing if they will be in school the next day to talk to me again. Half the time I have anywhere from 4-8 kids spending the night here just to talk to me. And that is because they would rather be dead than be adopted.
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