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Abortion
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(Original post by zizero)
About 'potential rights' - I don't understand why a foetus's status as a potential human being gives him human rights (which is as one of the main arguments against abortion). He is not a full human being yet and hence he should not be treated as such.
Prince Charles is a potential King, yet no-one would dream of giving him therefore regal rights. Similarly, a foetus is a potential human being, which does not mean he should have human rights.
About 'potential rights' - I don't understand why a foetus's status as a potential human being gives him human rights (which is as one of the main arguments against abortion). He is not a full human being yet and hence he should not be treated as such.
Prince Charles is a potential King, yet no-one would dream of giving him therefore regal rights. Similarly, a foetus is a potential human being, which does not mean he should have human rights.
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#22
(Original post by Speciez99)
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
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#23
(Original post by Speciez99)
i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
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#24
(Original post by Mr White)
The point at which it is capable of independant existence would be a good estimate.
The point at which it is capable of independant existence would be a good estimate.
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(Original post by Mr White)
The point at which it is capable of independant existence would be a good estimate.
The point at which it is capable of independant existence would be a good estimate.
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#26
(Original post by Speciez99)
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
A horse is a more sophisticated and more developed being. Importantly, the horse's nervous system is much more developed than the foetus', hence the horse can "feel" much better and can potentially suffer much more.
So, what is it, that gives this "bunch of cells" a superior status to the horse, which is a superior being?
The fact that the "buch of cells" happen to belong to the kind of the homo sapiens is not really a justification: Why should we be selective on the sole basis of a being's belonging to a certain race? Is that not the same as for instance banning black people to use buses, just because they are black?
The reason humans have more rights than animals is that they are superior beings. Yet, foetuses are inferior to many animals, and hence they do not qualify for more rights than those animals.
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#27
(Original post by Speciez99)
the cases where i have seen abortion morally justified are:
women who have been raped
where the foetus's contiuned exsistance will kill the mother
and where the women did not want the child and used contraception to prevent it but was let down by it
however im not sure if anyone can justify abortion where it is through lack of care that the women got pregnant
does anyone know how much an abortion costs todays since if its so expensive this seems a arguement against the fact women just casually have one.
the cases where i have seen abortion morally justified are:
women who have been raped
where the foetus's contiuned exsistance will kill the mother
and where the women did not want the child and used contraception to prevent it but was let down by it
however im not sure if anyone can justify abortion where it is through lack of care that the women got pregnant
does anyone know how much an abortion costs todays since if its so expensive this seems a arguement against the fact women just casually have one.
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#28
(Original post by Speciez99)
thats changing from day to day with medical research and also where you are in the world (ie the medical faclities) so it seems to have a ever changing day when its alright for the foetus to terminated surely?
thats changing from day to day with medical research and also where you are in the world (ie the medical faclities) so it seems to have a ever changing day when its alright for the foetus to terminated surely?
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#29
(Original post by Speciez99)
Abortion: what do you think of it? should it illegal? do you think it is right that people can now get them in the lunch time? at what point does the baby get its "life"? at conception or some other time? and has anyone had an abortion?
answers to any of these questions would intrest me immediately
(no religious views please)
Abortion: what do you think of it? should it illegal? do you think it is right that people can now get them in the lunch time? at what point does the baby get its "life"? at conception or some other time? and has anyone had an abortion?
answers to any of these questions would intrest me immediately
(no religious views please)
A simple yes or no answer is never going to be right for every situation. Though I would say I am for abortion because I think people deserve a second chance if things go wrong.
I would say anyone should be allowed an abortion up to the point where it becomes less traumatic for everyone involved than not.
Also is abortion such a big issue - a huge number of living, feeling human beings die every day from hunger, lack of medical care, war etc - arn't these people more important than an unborn child?
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#30
(Original post by Speciez99)
thats changing from day to day with medical research and also where you are in the world (ie the medical faclities) so it seems to have a ever changing day when its alright for the foetus to terminated surely?
thats changing from day to day with medical research and also where you are in the world (ie the medical faclities) so it seems to have a ever changing day when its alright for the foetus to terminated surely?
So, does the foetus lose it's right to life, just because it happens to be in the wrong place?
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(Original post by Mr White)
well, not really. The moment at which it is capable of sustaining its own existence without the need to be physically attached to another human being is the point at which it becomes an individual, and not just a part of the mother's body.
well, not really. The moment at which it is capable of sustaining its own existence without the need to be physically attached to another human being is the point at which it becomes an individual, and not just a part of the mother's body.
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#32
(Original post by Speciez99)
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
you misunderstand, potential rights is my way of trying to say they have more rights than plants and animals but not those of a full human being, and thus i think abortion should be legal up untill a point however definiting that point is very difficult
Surely, the action must be viewed independant of circumstances, the action is what is under question and that does not alter with circumstances it is still 'an abortion'. So, you are saying that is it right and wrong at the same time - not consistent.
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#33
Personally if you are male you have no right to decide on abortion. And I stand by that statement, men can, will and do just walk away from a child, a woman does not have that option.
Some people say put the child up for adoption, WHY? So many child need adopting, why have more?
I can see that now there's the morning after pill etc to help prevent against a child etc but in reality sometimes its just too late for that.
What sort of a life will a child have if it is unwanted, surely it is better to prevent a life of no love or even abuse by abortion.
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
Eva
Some people say put the child up for adoption, WHY? So many child need adopting, why have more?
I can see that now there's the morning after pill etc to help prevent against a child etc but in reality sometimes its just too late for that.
What sort of a life will a child have if it is unwanted, surely it is better to prevent a life of no love or even abuse by abortion.
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
Eva
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#34
(Original post by Speciez99)
if you take the other extreme then is a person who is in a coma who relies on a computer controlled artifically lungs/heart/kidneys ect still alive then, despite the fact that they are capable of aknowledging their rights and can be in a vegative state for ages?
if you take the other extreme then is a person who is in a coma who relies on a computer controlled artifically lungs/heart/kidneys ect still alive then, despite the fact that they are capable of aknowledging their rights and can be in a vegative state for ages?
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#35
(Original post by txt_eva)
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
Eva
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
Eva
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#36
(Original post by txt_eva)
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
Even from the human right point of view... what rgiht does anyone have to tell me I cannot have an abortion if I so wish?
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(Original post by Howard)
Well, however expensive an abortion maybe it must surely be cheaper than raising a child for 20 odd years.
Well, however expensive an abortion maybe it must surely be cheaper than raising a child for 20 odd years.
(Original post by corey)
Is that consistent? What you are saying is...given these circumstances then abortion is morally OK, but given other circumstances it is not OK.
Surely, the action must be viewed independant of circumstances, the action is what is under question and that does not alter with circumstances it is still 'an abortion'. So, you are saying that is it right and wrong at the same time - not consistent
Is that consistent? What you are saying is...given these circumstances then abortion is morally OK, but given other circumstances it is not OK.
Surely, the action must be viewed independant of circumstances, the action is what is under question and that does not alter with circumstances it is still 'an abortion'. So, you are saying that is it right and wrong at the same time - not consistent
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#38
(Original post by Speciez99)
agreed
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
agreed
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
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#39
(Original post by Cate)
So is it alright if I murder a random person just because I so wish?
So is it alright if I murder a random person just because I so wish?
(Original post by corey)
But the removal or your right to choose is justified because you are removing someones right to life - a much more important right.
But the removal or your right to choose is justified because you are removing someones right to life - a much more important right.
(Original post by Speciez99)
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
Some woman can't take the pill, and condoms can break. Whilst abortion should not be seen as a type of contraception, it should not be ruled out as a choice.
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#40
(Original post by Speciez99)
agreed
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
agreed
yes i am if the girl is raped then its ok, if they didnt bother using any contraception and didnt take the pill and then expect an abortion then i think that it is very difficult to morally justify, whose who believe this please explain your rational
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