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Bigcnee
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#161
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#161
(Original post by Howard)
Well, I guess I am. But even I would prefer certain facilities be put aside to assist the homeless and those with addictions etc (If only for selfish reasons.........I get extremely annoyed having to step over wino's on my way into the theater)
Don't expect support from Mr Howard.
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love_4_ducks
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#162
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#162
(Original post by Bigcnee)
It's supposed to....

posed to yer buh people just wlk in of he street and decide that they dont want it.
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Howard
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#163
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#163
(Original post by Bigcnee)
Don't expect support from Mr Howard.
No. I'm just kidding. I am fairly conservative. I believe in capitalism. I believe in libertarianist ideas about small government. I believe in people helping themselves. I believe you should be able to earn as much money as you want (and keep most of it), I believe people know better than governments what is best for them. I believe in big houses, gas guzzling SUV's, "fat boy" motorcycles, fast speedboats, supersize meals, credit card expenditure, and plenty of consumption!!

However, I'm also no stranger to poverty. I spent 8 months as an NGO volunteer worker in Guatemala. I have looked into the face of poverty. I've seen 8 year old boys rented to truck drivers. I've seen and personally know plenty of 9 year olds who sniff glue to keep the cold away.

I've also given up several of my Xmas' working mobile grease wagons for Crisis in London.

So, while in many ways I am a ******* conservative I do believe in "safety nets" having seen what happens when those nets don't exist. But, I do not believe that the role of government is to cater to every conceivable need and whim of each and every individual in the land, or to address every possible injustice in the world.

So, what does that make me?
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Helenia
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#164
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#164
(Original post by love_4_ducks)
posed to yer buh people just wlk in of he street and decide that they dont want it.
Not on the NHS, I don't think. If people go private, then yeah, it is pretty easy, but not every doctor will automatically say "Yes, ok, you can have an abortion."

(Original post by Howard)
I just don't see why a doctor, a medical specialist, should be granted a judicial function in deciding what one can and cannot do with one's body.
Doctors will have to perform the operation. This costs money. The doctor is there to decide whether the benefits/lack of bad effects that the abortion will lead to are sufficient to warrant a termination. They will also be able to consider the likelihood of having to treat either mother or baby in the future as a result of the pregnancy having to continue unwanted. It is better, surely, that at least doctors have a say in it rather than just letting it all go by?
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The_Barman
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#165
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#165
The system has worked so far so i think that its fine the way it is!
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Howard
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#166
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#166
(Original post by Helenia)
Not on the NHS, I don't think. If people go private, then yeah, it is pretty easy, but not every doctor will automatically say "Yes, ok, you can have an abortion."



Doctors will have to perform the operation. This costs money. The doctor is there to decide whether the benefits/lack of bad effects that the abortion will lead to are sufficient to warrant a termination. They will also be able to consider the likelihood of having to treat either mother or baby in the future as a result of the pregnancy having to continue unwanted. It is better, surely, that at least doctors have a say in it rather than just letting it all go by?
I know abortions cost money. But not quite as much as raising an unwanted child for 20 odd years.

And from a purely non-medical point of view what qualifies the doctor to decide "whether the benefits/lack of bad effects that the abortion will lead to are sufficient to warrant a termination"?
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hitchhiker_13
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#167
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#167
(Original post by Howard)
I know abortions cost money. But not quite as much as raising an unwanted child for 20 odd years.

And from a purely non-medical point of view what qualifies the doctor to decide "whether the benefits/lack of bad effects that the abortion will lead to are sufficient to warrant a termination"?


That is a doctor's job.
Abortion in England is legal when the mother's physical or mental health is at risk. Who would be more qualified to decide if this is the case than her GP?
Anyway, this is a largely academic point as I think very few people would have any trouble in obtaining the 2 signatures necessary.
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Howard
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#168
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(Original post by hitchhiker_13)
That is a doctor's job.
Abortion in England is legal when the mother's physical or mental health is at risk. Who would be more qualified to decide if this is the case than her GP?
Anyway, this is a largely academic point as I think very few people would have any trouble in obtaining the 2 signatures necessary.
No. Please read the thread. NON MEDICAL is what I said but I'm not trawling through it all again.
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material breach
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#169
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#169
is abortion acceptable if the child is like to be born with a mental illness and the parents aren't prepared to look after it/cant afford it? ie should the quality of life effect the desicion on whether abortion is morally right or not?
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Howard
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#170
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#170
(Original post by Speciez99)
is abortion acceptable if the child is like to be born with a mental illness and the parents aren't prepared to look after it/cant afford it? ie should the quality of life effect the desicion on whether abortion is morally right or not?
In my opinion it is acceptable.
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yawn1
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#171
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#171
(Original post by Speciez99)
is abortion acceptable if the child is like to be born with a mental illness and the parents aren't prepared to look after it/cant afford it? ie should the quality of life effect the desicion on whether abortion is morally right or not?
I hate it when other people make a judgement on the 'quality of life' of another.

How can someone say that a person with say, Downs Syndrome, has less of a quality of life than someone without the syndrome. The judgement must be objective so the only person qualified to make it is the so-called 'sufferer'.
It is just an excuse to play God.
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Helenia
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#172
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(Original post by Howard)
No. Please read the thread. NON MEDICAL is what I said but I'm not trawling through it all again.
But abortion is a medical procedure!
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Joey_Johns
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#173
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#173
(Original post by Howard)
In my opinion it is acceptable.
Agreed. Doctors do not always know for certain if a child will be born iwth a disablity. Often they tell the parents there is say an 80% chance your baby will have......etc.

I would find it impossible to knowingly kill my own baby even if it was going to be disabled.
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yawn1
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(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Agreed. Doctors do not always know for certain if a child will be born iwth a disablity. Often they tell the parents there is say an 80% chance your baby will have......etc.

I would find it impossible to knowingly kill my own baby even if it was going to be disabled.
Can you rephrase that please - I can't determine whether you think it's morally acceptable to abort a child that MAY be born with a disability or not as you said you agreed with Howard and he's for it.
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Joey_Johns
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#175
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(Original post by yawn1)
Can you rephrase that please - I can't determine whether you think it's morally acceptable to abort a child that MAY be born with a disability or not as you said you agreed with Howard and he's for it.
I dont belive unless there are certain circumstances e.g. rape that abortion should take place at all. I certainly would never want to abort my baby.
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yawn1
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#176
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(Original post by Joey_Johns)
I dont belive unless there are certain circumstances e.g. rape that abortion should take place at all. I certainly would never want to abort my baby.
OK - thanks for the clarification.
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Howard
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(Original post by Helenia)
But abortion is a medical procedure!
Yes. I know. Please go way way way back and pick up the thread, because I'm not going to re-type.
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grace
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#178
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one of the reasons that people use to justify abortion is that a baby is 'unborn' and therefore it is not human being but rather an embryo. I'm curious to know just when a human is considered a person?!

If you consider the fact that kangaroos are 'born' before they are fully developed and then incubated in the pouch, if the same was true for humans when exactly would it be ok to abort them and not have it classified as murder?

The argument that babies in the womb are not completely developed and as such do not have the same rights to life is actually quite ignorant...humans are constantly undergoing development. Would it be alright to kill a five year old girl, justifying her death with the fact that she is not a 'complete human being' because her reproductive system is not yet developed?! I think this is madness.

Having said that, i'm not claiming to be perfect and if i were in certain situations i'm sure that i would find abortion a very appealing answer, so i'm not speaking from a 'holier-than-thou' perspective, i just think that it's a big deal and people need to seriously think about it. too many people use it just because it's the easy way out.
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Howard
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#179
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#179
(Original post by yawn1)
I hate it when other people make a judgement on the 'quality of life' of another.

How can someone say that a person with say, Downs Syndrome, has less of a quality of life than someone without the syndrome. The judgement must be objective so the only person qualified to make it is the so-called 'sufferer'.
It is just an excuse to play God.
Well, the sufferer is no more qualified than anybody else. Unless you've lived two lives, one with the syndrome and one without it, you can't say which offers a greater quality of life. But we can have a bloody good guess.

Let me ask you this. Would you swap your happy life of parties, vacations in Kos, a college education, a career, marriage, children, home ownership, and all the trimmings for the type of life a DS sufferer can enjoy?
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Jamie
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#180
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#180
(Original post by yawn1)
I hate it when other people make a judgement on the 'quality of life' of another.

How can someone say that a person with say, Downs Syndrome, has less of a quality of life than someone without the syndrome. The judgement must be objective so the only person qualified to make it is the so-called 'sufferer'.
It is just an excuse to play God.
Downs syndormes sufferers are more prone to disease.
I would say that is a dent on quality of life.
and they rarely live past 20
J
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