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Medicine/Dentistry with Foundation Year (A104/A204) - Do you want to know more?

Hi guys,

I've just finished the 'Pre-med' / Pre-dentistry Foundation Year at the University of Manchester and wanted to put myself forward if anyone has any questions about the course.

Since there are a very limited number of places on the course, the information available is lacking and when I applied I found it difficult to find out more about the course than what was on the UoM website.

Questions regarding course content/facilities/exam format/practical work etc are all welcome.

Whether you've been offered a place or are considering applying, reply to this thread with your questions and I will check back soon.

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Original post by cjpuddytat
Hi guys,

I've just finished the 'Pre-med' / Pre-dentistry Foundation Year at the University of Manchester and wanted to put myself forward if anyone has any questions about the course.

Since there are a very limited number of places on the course, the information available is lacking and when I applied I found it difficult to find out more about the course than what was on the UoM website.

Questions regarding course content/facilities/exam format/practical work etc are all welcome.

Whether you've been offered a place or are considering applying, reply to this thread with your questions and I will check back soon.



I’m thinking of applying:rolleyes:, I know what you mean about the lacking info on the course:s-smilie:. Do you know what the ukcat cut offs were last year, and if you don’t mind me asking what did you get in gcses and AS results:colondollar:. Do they ask why you didn’t take bio & chem A level because I got asked that at the Essex uni superfair. I took AS chem and I’m taking biology to A2 would this be an issue and with regards to subject combo’s also would my A levels in tech, art and bio count as “Two rigorous arts/humanities subjects and one science subject”. What’s the pass rate? To progress to yr2.

Thank you so much, any answers would be much appreciated.
University of Manchester
University of Manchester
Manchester
Reply 2
Original post by kickasskaz01
I’m thinking of applying:rolleyes:, I know what you mean about the lacking info on the course:s-smilie:. Do you know what the ukcat cut offs were last year, and if you don’t mind me asking what did you get in gcses and AS results:colondollar:. Do they ask why you didn’t take bio & chem A level because I got asked that at the Essex uni superfair. I took AS chem and I’m taking biology to A2 would this be an issue and with regards to subject combo’s also would my A levels in tech, art and bio count as “Two rigorous arts/humanities subjects and one science subject”. What’s the pass rate? To progress to yr2.

Thank you so much, any answers would be much appreciated.


Hey,

I don't know the UKCAT cut-offs but I can tell you that my UKCAT average score was 680 from a possible range of 300 to 900.

My GCSEs were: 6A*s, 3As, 2Bs, (A* in Biology and Chem).

My AS grades were: Maths A, Law A, Psychology A, Business Studies A
(A*s were not available when I sat these as I took a gap year and applied successfully for deferred entry).

I took Maths, Law and Psychology to A2.

You will most probably get asked at interview why you have recently decided to study Medicine/Dentistry. (This encompasses your reasons for not studying Bio and Chem at A Level).

With regards to your subject choices, I would find out from the Medical Admissions Office directly whether you qualify for applying. My Law and Psychology were classed as rigorous arts so I don't see why yours wouldn't qualify but do double-check as admissions policies can change year on year!

The pass rate to progress to year 2 in my academic year was 50% in all components (Chemistry, Biochemistry, Research Presentation and Report, Lab Reports). THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE!! However, the School have to offer you the opportunity to re-sit exams in the Summer.

Something interesting I found out from the Exam Co-ordinator is that students who DID NOT take Biology at AS/A2 tended to do BETTER in the Biochemistry papers than those who did.

This is because students may have had the mindset that because they'd already done Biology, it could take a back-seat and they'd pass no problem. I'm not trying to put you off, but rather I'm advising that if you do get on the course, treat Biochemistry as if it were a new subject and learn it the way they teach you at the Medical School/College. The written-answer Biochem papers are in an 'A Level' style but they may not reflect the exam board which you are used to and so don't fall into the trap of answering questions based on your A Level syllabus. The lecturers provide plenty of information and booklets for you to work from and practise questions.
Thanks for the quick reply, did you also apply to A104 at Sheffield. Do you think my AS in chemistry would affect my application?
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by kickasskaz01
Thanks for the quick reply, did you also apply to A104 at Sheffield. Do you think my AS in chemistry would affect my application?


Yes I applied to Sheffield and was rejected without interview. I didn't get any feedback as to why.

No I don't think your Chem AS will affect your application. Pretty sure some people in my year had done Chemistry, although they may well ask at interview why you didn't take it to A2 and apply for 5-year Medicine.

I'd check this though! Having not done any sciences at AS or A2, I didn't have to look into this.
(edited 12 years ago)
Thanks again, do you have any idea of how many people apply and get interviewed and how many places there are. Are tuition fees the same as the other 5 years? and do you get funding .
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by kickasskaz01
Thanks again, do you have any idea of how many people apply and get interviewed and how many places there are. Are tuition fees the same as the other 5 years? and do you get funding .


I know it's substantially more competitive to get on the course than 5-year Medicine, and that applications are going up every year!

In my year, there were 18 Pre-meds and 9 Pre-dents, although you all study the same course together in the Foundation year.

Tuition fees are the same as for the other 5 years, and the funding is the same as if you were on the 5-year course.
Original post by cjpuddytat
I know it's substantially more competitive to get on the course than 5-year Medicine, and that applications are going up every year!

In my year, there were 18 Pre-meds and 9 Pre-dents, although you all study the same course together in the Foundation year.

Tuition fees are the same as for the other 5 years, and the funding is the same as if you were on the 5-year course.



Hi again is there any advice you could give me to help support my application like; further reading, work experience and personal statements .
Reply 8
Original post by kickasskaz01
Hi again is there any advice you could give me to help support my application like; further reading, work experience and personal statements .


There's lots of help out there with regards to personal statements so I wouldn't want to advise you on this specifically although it is a requirement that you do some work experience in a caring capacity, and so I would mention what have done/learnt/enjoyed in your PS.

If you have connections to the NHS via family etc then take advantage of this! If like me you have absolutely no connections, don't worry but do start looking for opportunities soon.

I was eligible for some hospital shadowing/workshops with WAMS (Widening Access to Medical Schools) so got some experience that way but I also did some GP shadowing at a mid-size practice. Some advice on this; you're not likely to get work experience at the practice you are registered at or one close to your home due to confidentiality reasons - you might know the patients. Write letters to practices a little further out that you can get to. This may not be applicable to you but my dad lives about 20 miles away from where I live so I managed to get work experience at a practice around the corner from his home and stayed with him for a week. If you have no luck at practices in your area then maybe you could consider a similar thing with grandparents etc to avoid a commute?

Other ideas are volunteering at a care home or working with disabled people. It doesn't necessarily have to be in a clinical setting but do something you think you will enjoy and try to get the most out of it.

As for further reading, I think I mentioned in my PS that I enjoy reading popular science books (which I still do!) but don't write something for the sake of it. Say why you are interested in science/medicine and if you have read/watched a book/documentary which has interested you then say so.
Reply 9
Hi, finding this thread is such a relief! There is so little information available and I've been scouring the internet in search of something like this!

Reading through, some people have said it has to be 2 "rigorous non-science subjects" and one sciency subject, but I'm doing English Lit, Philosophy and French. So there are definitely no sciencey subjects there! I was just wondering if you think that would be acceptable to apply with?

Also, the Pre-Med year has a bit of a reputation as being awfully hard to deal with, is it a huge amount of work? Or do you think it's manageable?

Thanks a lot for making the thread, so useful!
Reply 10
Original post by ollie101
Hi, finding this thread is such a relief! There is so little information available and I've been scouring the internet in search of something like this!

Reading through, some people have said it has to be 2 "rigorous non-science subjects" and one sciency subject, but I'm doing English Lit, Philosophy and French. So there are definitely no sciencey subjects there! I was just wondering if you think that would be acceptable to apply with?

Also, the Pre-Med year has a bit of a reputation as being awfully hard to deal with, is it a huge amount of work? Or do you think it's manageable?

Thanks a lot for making the thread, so useful!



Hi,

Yes I remember the feeling, knew some people would find this handy :smile:

About the A2 subject choices, I did Maths, Psychology and Law so I don't think your choices will be a problem.

This is the official word taken from the website:-

"One of the following combinations is required:

•Three rigorous arts/humanities subjects
•Two rigorous arts/humanities subjects and one science subject
•One rigorous arts/humanities subject and two science subjects (not chemistry)
NB: Critical Thinking is not accepted at A2. General Studies is not accepted at AS or A2."

If in doubt, get in touch with the Medical Admissions Office.

As for the reputation being that the foundation year is very hard, well I hadn't heard this reputation at all and I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

As a guideline, I've drawn up my weekly timetable and additional study details to give you an idea. The course does change year on year though but I imagine the workload will be similar.

Mon: 10-11.30 PBL (Problem Based Learning session 1)
12 - 2 Labs (Lab work/tasks from written instructions)
Tues: 10.30 - 12.45 Chemistry (Xaverian College)
2 - 4 Biology (Xaverian College)
Weds: 9 - 10 Biology (Xav)
12 - 1 Biology (Xav)
Thurs: 10 - 11.30 PBL (session 2)
11.30 - 12.30 Uni Lecture
2 - 4 Chemistry (Xav)
Fri: 10 - 11 Hypothesis Presentation
11.30 - 12.30 Uni Lecture

PBL - In the first session of the week you will be given a 'case' to read through as a group (approx. 9 students plus a tutor). As a group you will discuss the case and identify the areas of study you will carry out for the following session.
In the second session you will report back your research, focussing on the more in-depth areas and make sure everyone is up to speed.
Each week you will identify a chairperson to lead the group and direct the discussion and a scribe to make notes.

Labs - These are great fun! You have one two-hour session per week where you will be given a booklet of instructions to follow in a group of about 3 students. The lab theme usually coincides with the area of study for the PBL case and the Xaverian teaching topics for that week. You are free to leave as soon as you have completed the work set.
Our year group had to write a lab report each week outlining what we did and any results we found. The lab booklets also contained additional questions which you must answer in your lab report.
Lab reports are collected in at the end of each semester but I HIGHLY recommend completing them as soon as you can after each lab session.

Chemistry - Class-taught with the whole group at Xaverian College. Our lecturer was very enthusiastic and you literally start at the basics so that everyone is on the same page.
There are a couple of lab sessions such as titration and preparing aspirin.

Biology - See above. There are lab sessions such as testing for the presence of certain molecules and heart dissection.

Uni Lecture - There are two types. Usually one session each week is delivered by a course tutor and covers mostly physics relevant to medicine and some areas of biology, basic chemistry, biostatistics, and relevant math skills.
The other type is usually delivered by a guest speak, often Consultant Doctors or other medical professionals and relate to the topics being studied in PBL and Xav College that week. A piece of advice - MAKE THE MOST OF THE GUEST SPEAKERS!! You will get loads of guest lecturers later on in the Medicine course but not in a room of less than 30 students!!! It is a much more intimate atmosphere and a great opportunity to get your questions in, unlike big theatre lectures.

Hypothesis Presentation - Students will be put into groups of 2 at the start of the year and given a hypothesis topic to research such as: 'Organ donation should be compulsory'. You must research your given topic and produce a presentation and a written report.
The hypothesis slot in the timetable is for the presentations i.e. one group presents each week.
The presentations don't begin for a few weeks to give the first group time to prepare.
I was the last person to present in the entire year group but don't leave it until the last minute. Do a bit each week if you have lots of time to take the pressure off.


I hope that helps! Any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. :smile:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 11
Hi,

Thanks for the link to this page, way more info!
I am starting the A104 at manchester this september, I was just wondering what you recommend about books / materials etc?
I'm presuming there are 'core' textbooks reading lists etc they recommend to use throughout the year, would you suggest investing in anything in particular, and generally what are the info resources like, is it a lot of journal reading for example?

Thanks for the info
Reply 12
Original post by ML87
Hi,

Thanks for the link to this page, way more info!
I am starting the A104 at manchester this september, I was just wondering what you recommend about books / materials etc?
I'm presuming there are 'core' textbooks reading lists etc they recommend to use throughout the year, would you suggest investing in anything in particular, and generally what are the info resources like, is it a lot of journal reading for example?

Thanks for the info


Hi,

Congrats on your offer :smile:

With regards to books, there is a well stocked library in the Medical School, and the University's main library which you will be able to use in your foundation year. You should receive info on a reading list in your welcome pack but take it with a pinch of salt and don't go stocking your shelves prematurely. It might feel like you should be doing more right now to be prepared but really there is plenty of time during the course, and plenty of free accessible resources too, so relax and don't throw money at something you may never pick up.

I bought a few different books before I got there and to be honest it wasn't really necessary at this stage.

I do however recommend 'Fundamentals of Anatomy and Physiology' by Martini.
Whenever we asked the tutors how much detail we needed to go into on a topic, they'd say "Martini."

Don't be afraid to use the internet though for your research. Be weary of wikipedia as it is not always reliable but there are lots of reputable sites which cover topics in just as much detail as expensive textbooks.

A priceless gem I found was youtube tutorials! Lots of teachers/lecturers and students run their own tutorial channels which you can view for free. It really depends on what you prefer, but there were some principles I simply couldn't grasp/visualise in the written word but when I watched an animation on youtube it made total sense and it's the first thing I thought of when it came up in the exam.

For the teaching of Biology and Chemistry at Xaverian College, they give you home-made booklets on every topic in all the detail you need.
The lecturers wrote the booklets themselves and they are writing your exams - you can't go wrong!
There are also little written activities, diagrams to label, and 'fill-in-the-blanks' etc in these booklets that you work through in the lessons. However, if you are absent for any reason, make sure you catch up and get the 'extra' notes from a coursemate or you'll end up with gaps in your notes later down the line. Trivial - but frustrating if you go to revise and there's a blank diagram you forgot about.

A little tip: If you don't have a printer then use the Xaverian College library computers instead of the Uni ones - it's free!


If you really want to 'read' something as it were over the summer though... I'd recommend something simple and straight-forward like learning some anatomy. i.e the main bones and muscles in the body, or the parts of the eye and ear, main blood vessels etc.
I don't know what you've studied so far, but getting these down now will give you more time to focus on the physiology and concepts later, rather than spending half your time thinking of a way to distinguish the Ulna from the Radius.


Sorry for the essay, I tend to get carried away.

CJ x
I'm so happy to have found this thread!

The thing is I started A-level with science subjects intending to do medicine, then switched to arts subjects two weeks into the year with concerns that I didn't want to be a doctor after all. Now I've got into Royal Holloway to study Eng Lit, but over the course of my gap year I've had a sort of epiphany and decided that in actual fact I really, really, really do want to do medicine!

My parents want me to finish my English degree and THEN study medicine, even though that way I'd be at university until I was 30, which I'm a bit unsure about. I get really upset thinking that I'd have to wait that long, and I'm really dreading the English course now that I have no real motivation for doing it and it feels like a huge waste of three years of my life. I'd love to be heading off to a medical course right now, but of course my moment of clarity came a little late for that.

I got 9A* and 2A at GCSE, and my A-levels are English A*, History A* and Physics C, with an A in AS Theatre Studies.

So here's the questions!

If I were to apply to a pre-med course, would it be better to take another gap year (groan...) and apply in the 2012 UCAS cycle, or start my English course and make enquiries about applying once I'm there? (my parents think it would be better to start the English course in case I love it/in case once I get to medical school I don't actually like it :/ I'm not sure really)

Also, considering my grades and situation......do I have a hope in hell of getting in, and surviving once I'm there? :biggrin:

Thanks for any help or nugget of advice you can give!!!
Reply 14
Hi and thanks for the brilliant thread! I have a question about registering with the BMA - first of all, can you register as a pre-med and if yes, do you benefit from it at all?

To my understanding, the resources for students are very handy and I was wondering if this applies to pre-meds as well.

Thanks in advance for your time. :wink:
Reply 15
Original post by cjpuddytat
Hi guys,

I've just finished the 'Pre-med' / Pre-dentistry Foundation Year at the University of Manchester and wanted to put myself forward if anyone has any questions about the course.

Since there are a very limited number of places on the course, the information available is lacking and when I applied I found it difficult to find out more about the course than what was on the UoM website.

Questions regarding course content/facilities/exam format/practical work etc are all welcome.

Whether you've been offered a place or are considering applying, reply to this thread with your questions and I will check back soon.


can international students apply for this course?
Reply 16
Original post by gradentry
can international students apply for this course?


Hi there,
This is the word from the UoM website for the Foundation Medicine A104 course:-

Other international entry requirements
"Applicants from within the European Union are considered 'home' students. Those with broad-based EU qualifications e.g. Polish Matura, French Baccalaureate, Italian Esame di Stato should contact the office for further information before applying.

Students from outside the EU should offer international GCSE examinations and A2 levels or International Baccalaureate. It is unusual for the School to consider international applicants (i.e. from outside of the EU) for the Foundation Year. The UK Government limits the total number of international students in Medical Schools to 7.5%. The great majority enter the 5-year programme. Each international applicant is looked at on merit - for the Foundation Year, the School looks for applicants from a widening participation background."


For information regarding entry requirements and other basic info, I recommend visiting this page: http://www.medicine.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/foundation6yr/?code=01430&pg=all

CJ
Reply 17
Original post by cjpuddytat
Hi there,
This is the word from the UoM website for the Foundation Medicine A104 course:-

Other international entry requirements
"Applicants from within the European Union are considered 'home' students. Those with broad-based EU qualifications e.g. Polish Matura, French Baccalaureate, Italian Esame di Stato should contact the office for further information before applying.

Students from outside the EU should offer international GCSE examinations and A2 levels or International Baccalaureate. It is unusual for the School to consider international applicants (i.e. from outside of the EU) for the Foundation Year. The UK Government limits the total number of international students in Medical Schools to 7.5%. The great majority enter the 5-year programme. Each international applicant is looked at on merit - for the Foundation Year, the School looks for applicants from a widening participation background."


For information regarding entry requirements and other basic info, I recommend visiting this page: http://www.medicine.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/foundation6yr/?code=01430&pg=all

CJ


thanks for the link :smile:
Reply 18
Original post by Endorphins
Hi and thanks for the brilliant thread! I have a question about registering with the BMA - first of all, can you register as a pre-med and if yes, do you benefit from it at all?

To my understanding, the resources for students are very handy and I was wondering if this applies to pre-meds as well.

Thanks in advance for your time. :wink:


Hi, congrats on your offer and thanks for the kind comment on my page :smile:

As a Pre-Med, you are part of the Medical School and therefore have much the same privileges as other medical students.

You can register with the BMA and medical indemnity societies such as the MPS - you can sort these kinds of things out at the Medics Freshers Fayre which will be detailed in your welcome pack timetable and should take place in the Stopford Building common room.

I'm not sure you'll see any real benefit at this stage in the course... Apart from some website access and the occassional email of interest.

Take a look at this page for more info and what you can expect as a member: http://www.bma.org.uk/_top/join_bma/studentbenefits.jsp

From what I remember, you are regarded as a Medical Student and the only difference between your application and a 5-year student application is your expected date of graduation. I don't think there's any difference in membership as a Pre-Med.

This can be said for all the Medical School facilities and events etc too. Someone would only know you're a Pre-Med if you actually told them - you have much the same privileges as anyone else... AND you get to take advantage of the Xaverian College facilities too (quieter environment, free printing, depending where your accommodation is the College might be closer than the Medical School/Library etc).

You can also purchase a MedSoc membership card which will give you discounts for events and other purchases BUT a little note - As a Pre-Med you won't have an NHS Student card and you often need to present this in conjunction with your MedSoc card to get deals on the High Street and food outlets, so think carefully whether it's worth it for your first year.

Hope this answers your questions.
Reply 19
Original post by thestardancer
I'm so happy to have found this thread!

The thing is I started A-level with science subjects intending to do medicine, then switched to arts subjects two weeks into the year with concerns that I didn't want to be a doctor after all. Now I've got into Royal Holloway to study Eng Lit, but over the course of my gap year I've had a sort of epiphany and decided that in actual fact I really, really, really do want to do medicine!

My parents want me to finish my English degree and THEN study medicine, even though that way I'd be at university until I was 30, which I'm a bit unsure about. I get really upset thinking that I'd have to wait that long, and I'm really dreading the English course now that I have no real motivation for doing it and it feels like a huge waste of three years of my life. I'd love to be heading off to a medical course right now, but of course my moment of clarity came a little late for that.

I got 9A* and 2A at GCSE, and my A-levels are English A*, History A* and Physics C, with an A in AS Theatre Studies.

So here's the questions!

If I were to apply to a pre-med course, would it be better to take another gap year (groan...) and apply in the 2012 UCAS cycle, or start my English course and make enquiries about applying once I'm there? (my parents think it would be better to start the English course in case I love it/in case once I get to medical school I don't actually like it :/ I'm not sure really)

Also, considering my grades and situation......do I have a hope in hell of getting in, and surviving once I'm there? :biggrin:

Thanks for any help or nugget of advice you can give!!!


Hi,
I'd hesitate to advise you on what you should do here - it's a pretty big deal as you well know! :redface:

I'll offer some of my thoughts though...

With regards to getting onto the A104 6 Year course, the minimum A Level offer detailed on the UoM website is ABB.
On the surface of it, you don't meet this requirement, but as you have excellent GCSE grades and two A*s at A level, it is worth getting in touch with the Medical Admissions Office and finding out if you would be considered for the course. They also have the advantage of knowing your A2 grades so they wouldn't be risking a place as opposed to if you were yet to do A2 and then didn't meet their offer. There's no harm in asking.

The Foundation course is very competitive, moreso year on year, so there are other hurdles to get over too such as getting a good score on the UKCAT and gaining related work experience. I don't want to put you off but I'm trying to give you a realistic idea of your chances.

Have a good look at this page as it details their requirements and expectations etc: http://www.medicine.manchester.ac.uk/undergraduate/foundation6yr/?code=01430&pg=all

You have a bit of a dilemma because starting your degree may look as if you are not committed to Medicine in your applcation... yet not starting your degree may leave you with no course next year if you don't get a place in Medicine.

I suggest talking it through again with your parents. There were plenty of graduates in my year group so it is totally doable to get into Medicine as a second degree. It's never too late. As for being worried about your age, a guy in my year turned 30 in his Foundation year! It's something to consider but don't let that hold you back.

There's also the finances side of it. Obviously I don't know your situation but two degrees is a lot of money. If your parents are helping you out then this might not be a major issue but as far as I know, Student Loans don't fund second degrees. Look into this a bit more as I don't want to misinform you.

Sorry I can't offer much here :frown: I would say that job no.1 is to find out if you could get onto the A104 course (and similar courses elsewhere) with your A Levels, then go from there.

Good luck! Do ask if you have any other questions. I'll do my best.

Cj
(edited 12 years ago)

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