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Reply 20
i actually do.....................
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Freefloater
That is my exact point ' given autonomy' 'need permission from parlaiment' ' annexed' ... these are not the words used for a sovereign state which is independent. But also what about the economic growth, revenues and not to mention the cultural indenpendce which these states have been deprived of over the last couple of centuries.


The whole point is that they are not sovereign independent states. None of the home countries are. You are implying that England has conquered the British isles and is occupying Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is false. They are all constituents of the United Kingdom. The UK is an equal union of it's members. It is the UK that controls Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, not England.
Reply 22
The Irish people never willingly joined the Union and the entire reason Northern Ireland exists in its current borders is due to gerry mandering of borders to ensure a certain majority. Fact, and an acknowledged fact.

pol pot noodles
The whole point is that they are not sovereign independent states. None of the home countries are. You are implying that England has conquered the British isles and is occupying Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is false. They are all constituents of the United Kingdom. The UK is an equal union of it's members. It is the UK that controls Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, not England.

I've said it before but I may as well say it again, you're a moron son. England is the largest "nation" of the union and larger than the other three statelets put together, therefore it controls the money, power and the politics of the United Kingdom. All of this equal union pish is *******s, do you honestly believe Northern Ireland is equal to England or Scotland considering London has 5 times the population of Northern Ireland, and the same popuation as all of Scotland, nevermind the other 50 million people in England? Is it my hole. Wise up.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Jim-ie

I've said it before but I may as well say it again, you're a moron son.


Oh **** off you terrorist-sympathising scumbag troll.

Original post by Jim-ie

England is the largest "nation" of the union and larger than the other three statelets put together, therefore it controls the money, power and the politics of the United Kingdom. All of this equal union pish is *******s, do you honestly believe Northern Ireland is equal to England or Scotland considering London has 5 times the population nevermind the other 50 million people in England? Is it my hole. Wise up.


You are an absolute retard. Why don't you read up on the political constitution of the UK. There is a difference between England having the most influence in the Union and England 'owning' the others as the OP is suggesting. What actual constitutional power does England have over the other home countries? Eh? What was that? That's right, none, so **** off you douchebag. If anything England is handicapped by virtue of not being able to vote on matters only concerning Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland where as their MPs can vote on matters only concerning England. Don't run your mouth off over matters you evidently know **** all about, prick. You are actual such a troll it makes me angry.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 24
Original post by pol pot noodles
Oh **** off you terrorist-sympathising scumbag troll.



You are an absolute retard. Why don't you read up on the political constitution of the UK. There is a difference England having the most influence in the Union to England 'owning' the others as the OP is suggesting. What actual constitutional power does England have over the other home countries? Eh? What was that? That's right, none, so **** off you douchebag. Don't run your mouth off over matters you evidently know **** all about, prick.


lol you're a moron.

The UK started through English conquest, or do you deny that too? It was hardly Welsh conquest wee son.

Dry yer eyes and learn something.

O AND what terrorists do i sympathise with, by the way? Would love to know that one.
Original post by Jim-ie
lol you're a moron.

The UK started through English conquest, or do you deny that too? It was hardly Welsh conquest wee son.

Dry yer eyes and learn something.


Answer my question you troll. What constitutional powers does England have over the other home countries that would make it an unequal union?

Original post by Jim-ie

O AND what terrorists do i sympathise with, by the way? Would love to know that one.


The IRA.
Reply 26
Yes the union would never be what it is if not for English conquest..... it seems that some people can not see that due to this the 'agreement' formed with governments we installed is obviously always going to be favourable to us and this is true.

I gues we are just following nicolas machevelli and his theories, which were nothing short of evil. So my solution a federation does anyone agree with this?
I personally, feel Scotland/Wales/NI should have independence.

However at the end of the day, it's all down to what the people of that place themselves want. They need referendums (if there's enough evidence for them potentially wanting a change), if they want to become independent, they should become so.
Original post by Freefloater
Yes the union would never be what it is if not for English conquest..... it seems that some people can not see that due to this the 'agreement' formed with governments we installed is obviously always going to be favourable to us and this is true.

I gues we are just following nicolas machevelli and his theories, which were nothing short of evil. So my solution a federation does anyone agree with this?


What constitutional powers does England have over the others that makes you believe it is an unequal union?
Original post by Nightstar-27

6) Oddly enough, England hardly treats Wales, Scotland and NI terribly nowadays.


Now, you are mostly right. Although historically, the English essentially raped Wales. It is near enough a miracle that the Welsh language has survived (considering it was physically beaten out of school children etc etc).

Although there still is a pretty large element of xenophobia against welsh people by the English (I'd be rich as hell if I got a quid for every time some English person makes a remark about sheep or whatever).
Original post by pol pot noodles
You are implying that England has conquered the British isles


While it may not be true for Scotland, it certainly is true for Wales.
Reply 31
Original post by Freefloater
I Just do not understand why in the 21st century a small state like England still dictates and owns other countries who are supposed to be its neighbors?. How can they have a church, when they dont love thy neigbour and why do these countries which have been conquered by english kings/queens, NOT ask for independence - go to the EU-, ask for compensation for wiping OUT their kings, way of life and independence.

Recently South Sudan voted for independce - ok, its not exactly same situation- but you are european and still owned by another european country?.... doesnt make sense Stotland, N Ireland and Wales must be the only countries and not 'provinces' in EU where this is turned a blind eye to.

I read into this and just though what you think about it


I was born in Northern Ireland, and while you may think you have read into this, the way in which you have worded this question suggests otherwise. Regarding the UK, parts of Northern Ireland still fight over it, the majority of the Scottish want a referendum and Wales have revived their own language remarkably over the past few years.

But in general, the majority of British people want to remain British - not so that England can rule over us, but because the economic benefits of the pound still outweigh those of any other currency we could move to.
Original post by WelshBluebird
While it may not be true for Scotland, it certainly is true for Wales.


Yes, 800 years ago. However the OP seems to think that the sovereign country we live in today is England, where as in reality England is a constituent country of the United Kingdom just like Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. England doesn't control those three, the UK does. England has absolutely no constitutional power over the other home nations.
Reply 33
Original post by Freefloater
That is my exact point ' given autonomy' 'need permission from parlaiment' ' annexed' ... these are not the words used for a sovereign state which is independent. But also what about the economic growth, revenues and not to mention the cultural indenpendce which these states have been deprived of over the last couple of centuries.


Correct. That's because they are not sovereign States which are independent. Neither is England.

Lets not forget England was conquered too. It was conquered by Anglo-Saxon invaders, who set up various kingdoms, which were eventually conquered by one of them to become England. Then it was conquered by the Normans.

People like to blame the English for all this conquering, but actually the initial invasions of Wales and Ireland were carried out by the Norman ruling elite. They weren't really English by that point. England itself was ruled by foreign invaders.

The people of all of these places didn't agree to join the UK. None of them were democracies, very few democracies existed back then. It's not like the average English person got any say in whether to invade Wales or Ireland, or whether to join with Scotland. If the majority of the population were ok with it, it was just coincidence really, the government would have done it anyway.
Reply 34
Original post by Freefloater
So my solution a federation does anyone agree with this?


"A federation (Latin: foedus, foederis, 'covenant'), also known as a federal state, is a type of sovereign state characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central (federal) government".

So... effectively what you are saying is that you want to re-name parliament as 'federal government' and give England more power by giving it its own self-governance (as the other 3 nations already have)? Great... i'm sure that will change everything :rolleyes:
Reply 35
England doesn't own a single other country. Westminster may be the central government of all four but that's simply a matter of geography, the UK is the body of power rather than England. When you consider it, N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales hold proportional power in Westminster, where they can vote on on all matters concerning England, but they also have their own assemblies which England can not vote on. It can be seen that that Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland actually have a disproportionately more power than England. England is incapable of voting itself free student fees or free prescriptions without the permission of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, the latter three can act on this independently.
Original post by Bedshaped
Tbh Birmingham, East London and Bradford belong to Pakistan. England have gotta hold on to something.


sounds like BNP talk.
Original post by Freefloater
I Just do not understand why in the 21st century a small state like England still dictates and owns other countries who are supposed to be its neighbors?. How can they have a church, when they dont love thy neigbour and why do these countries which have been conquered by english kings/queens, NOT ask for independence - go to the EU-, ask for compensation for wiping OUT their kings, way of life and independence.

Recently South Sudan voted for independce - ok, its not exactly same situation- but you are european and still owned by another european country?.... doesnt make sense Stotland, N Ireland and Wales must be the only countries and not 'provinces' in EU where this is turned a blind eye to.

I read into this and just though what you think about it


We don't own them; we're in a union with them, if we owned them they wouldn't have the vote, it would be as they we our colony.:rolleyes:
Reply 38
If by owned you mean throw a ****load of money at every year, then I would like to be owned as well. Thx.
England doesn't even have its own parliament whereas all the other countries do - and it's the UK not England that 'owns' them. Things are based in London because London is the capital of the UK and the last PM before Cameron was Scottish so I really have no idea what your issue is.

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